Now i am a Master at Blues solos (so i have plenty of riffs to do) but as for solos for metal all i do is tremelo pick up and down the Minor pentatonicin different spots and finger taping in a few spots ... It just doesnt seem right. Can someone help me on the technique or other things to do?

Listen to lots of metal, particularly thrash and oldschool metal with good lead work like Kreator and Metallica and Judas Priest and suchlike.

Do what they do.

(not helpful, I know, but it's the thing to do..)

what about maiden?

I suggest abandoning the pentatonic scale and learning the natural minor, melodic minor, harmonic minor, diminished and augmented scales. These can be found at www.looknohands.com. Apply the techniques (tapping, fast runs, phrasing, etc) that you have already learnt to these 3 and 4 note per string scales and that should give you the metal sound you are after. Also, don't be afraid to use notes that are outside the scale to give a chromatic feel to some of your solos - this often adds a little something extra to proceedings.

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i cant understand how to read the scales on those sites too much clutter

dude, your have the exact same dilemma as me, except im still workin on the blues solos a bit

i THINK that the dot under the neck figure is where the root note of the scale is, but im not too sure either...

listen to Slayer

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Reading scale diagrams isn't really that hard - you just put your fingers where the dots are and et viola. However if that's not your bag, you should be able to find all those scales in tab form in the Scales sticky at the top of the guitar forum here.

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It's also recommended to learn the various modes, because they sound cool. Beyond learning scales, some of the techniques to blues and metal soloing are very different, so do as you were told and listen to the good metal soloists for examples of phrasing. Feel free to learn their solos and use them as starting points; if you're an accomplished blues soloist, chances are you started out using a few riffs lifted from the three Kings, so you should know this. And, of course, whammy bar tricks are usually advisable, just for the hell of it. Obviously, after you get used to metal conventions you should be able to branch out on your own and do something interesting. If not, there are always more scales to be learned, more techniques to be added to the arsenal, and so on. And don't forget any of the blues licks you know, because they can fit in fairly well.

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Do NOT bother with thrash since things like Metallica are very very blusey so it wouldnt help you.

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Trey Azagthoth has some cool ass solos, I'm not sure what scales he uses of if he just goes chromatic. The solo for where the slive lives kicks the ass though.

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theres a few different techniques:
1. use the tremelo bar viciously if youre doing a solo over a black metal style riff
2. if doing death metal, tapping where theres a semitone difference between two of the notes
3. harmonic minor and diminished scales are the key to metal
4. sweep picking
5. never, EVER use the blues scale, it always sounds shitty when played in the better styles of metal, pentatonic is a maybe but definately no blues scale

Dude, early Metallica kicked ass. What, you don't like Jump in the Fire?

Play around with the minor diatonic scales, remember pentatonics are derived from diatonic scales so you're just adding two notes to scales you already know. As far as looknohands, learn the scales up each string, one at a time. The numbers you're looking at are the scales intervals. Hint, start at 1 and go in order. The reason some of the scales have intervals that have a little 'b' or a '#' next to them is because they are lower or higher compared to the C major scale. Those are sharps and flats, the reason they exist is for some reason all nomanclature is based on the C Major Scale, that's just the way it is.

So, what determines if it's b or #? Well, the C major scale has an interval structure of 1-2-3-4-5-6-7, it is composed of the 'natural' notes, starting on C. C-D-E-F-G-A-B. If we look at that on the fretboard, we have an interval structure as follows below starting on the 3rd fret of the A string.

A-|-3-5-7-8-10-12-14-(15, root, perfect eighth)-

Notice that between 7 and 8 (14 and 15, or an octave lower on the same string, 2 and 3. There is only one fret difference. That's because out of the 12 notes that exist (A - A#/Bb - B - C - C#/Db - D - D#/Eb - E - F - F#/Gb - G - G#/Ab) there is no E#/Fb or B#/Cb, these notes do not exist. Those notes that are the same, A#/Bb for example, are called "ENHARMONICS". What Determines which is used is whether you're going up or down, down is flat, up is sharp. Each of these 12 notes are 1/2 step away from each other. 1/2 steps are the building blocks of music, so to speak. Knowing that there are no enharmonics between B and C, or E and F we can determine that the C major scale is of the following structure, using half steps 2-2-1-2-2-2-1. We can determine this because we know that each half step is 1 fret, so

c-d = 2 (1/2 steps)
on the fretboard:
A-|-3-5 (2 frets)

d-e = 2 (1/2 steps)
A-|-5-7 (2 frets)

e-f = 1 (1/2 step)
A-|-7-8

Get the picture?

You'll notice that you can play any scale and any mode in any position on the fretboard. Once you start to visualize this in your mind a wonderful thing has begun and a whole endless universe of possibilities will open up.

(I'm going to post this in the scales and sweeps thread too)

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Definitely. I mean, what could be less helpful to a bluesy player trying to learn how to make it as a metal soloist than the example of a bluesy player who made it as a metal soloist?

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there is one error in what you guys are saying though, your acting as if the metal solo structure came before blues structure...metal solos are just a complication of the old solos.

Because it makes sense for him to practice what he is already good at only with more distortion and a wah pedal? Don't think so. It makes much more sense to to try things like Death (All of chuck's solos are in Harmonic Minor I think) or if you are accomplished enough Krisiun solos.

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shut up cunt, blues sounds good anywhere if used correctly. 'tis the purest form of soloing, IMO

About the blues scale, most of the scales that are commonly used are derived in some form from the blues, but i mean the pentatonic scale with the chromatic passing tones in there, the sound created by a solo in that scale never seems to have enough balls for metal.

Well wrong slightly, Chuck used Locrian mode and i think alot of his stuff was Chromatic as he never really learned scales. Yet when a player plays something subconsciously makes a follow a scale we heard somewhere or know, i find myself doing it alot I play in Harmonic Minor alot although i dislike that scale, just out of habit and what not i play in it alot.

It's a mistake to think that Kirk Hammett plays a blues lick - even the exact same lick - like a straight-up blues player would. He's playing blues licks in a metal way, mostly because traditional blues phrasing would sound idiotic over Hetfield's riffs. Kirk's an example of where to go if you're a bluesy player and want to play metal, as well as an example of how to bring what you know - and I don't think Cheese Co here should be neglecting his blues, because he obviously cared enough about blues to play them well - from elsewhere into metal. He shouldn't stop there, but it's more instructive than just trem-picking pentatonic runs and throwing in a bit of tapping here and there. It lets him get his feet wet and find an area he's comfortable before heading out to run with the big boys.

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Another thing I really dont understand is how alot of bands use the scales to safely apply it to solos, metal and blues both....all the solos i can play blues or metal, they all use different shit.

I dont really understand modes as much as i should either, what exactly are they?

I'm sadly out of practice at theory, so I might balls this up, but if I do, there's sure to be someone here with a better theory head on his shoulders.

A mode is a scale derived from the major scale, but starting with a different root. The easiest example of this is the Aeolian mode, which is the minor scale. So, from a C major scale we derive the A Aeolian, which is just playing the C major scale starting from the sixth note and playing through that for an octave. It's pretty simple, and the modes are as follows:

Root - Ionian
2nd - Dorian
3rd - Phrygian
4th - Lydian
5th - Mixolydian
6th - Aeolian
7th - Locrian

That site johnmansley posted earlier should help you to find these scales wherever they are on the neck and in whatever key you want. That's about all I can say off the top of my head.

As for your other question: if I understand you correctly (and I'm sorry in advance if I didn't), you want to know why people can use the same scale for various styles of soloing, right? It partially has to do with the different technique applied to different styles - which is in itself a sticky question, since metal soloing is some kind of amalgam of blues, jazz, and classical playing - and partially has to do with the scales chosen. The pentatonic scale's very versatile and can adapt to however you play it, whereas certain scales really only work with certain types of playing. I'm not really able right now to give a good example, due to certain excesses in intemperance last night, but I'm sure someone should be able to help a bit more than I have.

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I'm not positive, but I think chuck knew scales since i recall reading an interview with him in which he stated that before a show he warms up with scales...

I'm nto telling him to drop blues, but I find that is he starts from nothing he will build a much stronger foundation in metal. And then he will be able to fuse 2 strong foundations of music with eachother.

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Fair enough. I agree, I just think he should start getting used to playing at the proper speed with something familiar and then jump off into the world outside bent runs on the pentatonic scale.

I seem to remember reading something about Chuck not knowing scales, but my memory's tricked me enough before that I don't trust the bastard now.

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He knew scales, he just didn't know the nomanclature part. Any accomplished guitarist has a fundamental understanding of theory, whether or not they realise it, they ARE applying it.

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