Well, I have my 5150, and I've decided that though its good, I want more. Right now I'm looking in the direction of rackmounted gear. I figure its alot easier to exchange a preamp or a power amp than swap a whole head.

Basicly, I don't know much about rackmounted gear. So I'm looking for advice. My budget? Reasonable. Meaning don't tell me to drop $2000 on a Bogner Fish pre-map. Sound? Simple and direct. I don't want 10 channels with MIDI and 100 effects. I'm looking for high quality rich tube ditrtion and good (no need for excellent) cleans.

Thanks.

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dosent the 5150 do all that??

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Ehh, I'm kind of sick of the sound of it. And I know there is much better distortion out there.

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well, more info on "reasonable" would be nice. the engl 530 pre is a nice one, but if you 1800$ or something close to that, you can get an engl 580 brand new. as for power sections, i like anything from peavey to vht, so take your most "resonable" pick.

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Does your 5150 have any mods?? A bias mod, and a Lowered gain mod will make the 5150 sound amazing. FJAmods.com foo

im not much of a rack guy.. so ill leave that shit to def and xdx

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I'm probably up for spending $1500-$2000 combined for preamp and poweramp. You know I'm willing to spend money for quality but not a ton for gear like the above mentioned Bogner Fish which is limited to 200 units and is amazing, I had the pleasure to play one. I was looking at the VHT 2:50:2 and an Egnl preamp of some sort. And I'd be buying used. Speaking of which any good sites for used gear besides ebay? There are very few pawn stores around in my area so...

I'll definitly check out that mod site, and yes everything is stock on my 5150. Hmm modding might work. I'm also thinking up a way to disconnect the head from the 2x12 since it is a combo. I think teh allure of a rack might be its ease of movement. But either way I'm still interested in learning about rack gear.

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mesa vtwin rack version(like $250-400 used)... discontinued, but it has some of the best mesa cleans and pretty thick distortion, but very ballsy like most other mesa's and it also is a very tweak happy preamp... really versitile...

engl 530 (like $300-400 used) great engl distortion and clean.... period.

engl 620 (like $150-350 used) less flexibility than the 530, but still engl-ish so it's good, ask def though.

bogner/hafler triple giant($300-500 used), good cleans and the brown channel is pretty neato, but te sharp channel can get really thin and treblely, but i've heard voodoo amp mod's will make them into tone monsters.

soldano sp77($300-600 used) another awesome all around preamp. based off of the slo.

most of my favorite pre's are midi.... but that doesnt mean you have to use it.....
like the ada mp-1, marshall jmp-1, mesa triaxis, h&k access, and the almighty engl 580...

mp-1(like $150 used)... ment to be modded, though they sound good stock... ada went out out of business, but www.adadepot.com is considered the official site now... there are like a dozen different mods available... great unit...

jmp-1(like $300-500 used)... i got one and love it... but if you arent a huge fan of the marshall sound, i'd say stear clear of it, becuase *gasp* thats pretty much the only sounds it does....

triaxis(like $800-ish used, which to me is too much)... great all around unit and pretty flexible.... but for the price i'd have to suggest not buying one unless you absolutely love it's tone.

access($300-700 used)... by far more versitile than the three previous.... and in some cases it sounds better for some distortions.... amazing preamp, and unlike the triaxis, it's worth the money.

580.... well, lets just say it's out of your price range....

some cool internet sites for used gear... other than ebay, www.instrumentexchange.com www.harmonycentral.com/classifieds www.musicgoround.com

thats normally what i look through online..

for poweramps...

i love vht poweramps over all, but i also love mesa poweramps, simul class especially...
engl,peavey,ada,carvin,mosvalve/tubeworks,marshall, ect... all have some good tube poweramps too...
i personally can't afford a vht right now like i want, so i'm getting a peavey classic 50/50 because it's probably my favorite "cheaper" tube poweramp... maybe it's the 8 little tone bottles we cal el84's....

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Well if you have the 5150 combo you dont need a bias mod. Im not a big fan of the combo though.. i dunno its just missing something.

I knew XDX would compile a nice long informative list

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I think what turns me off about the 5150 is it seems selective in what sounds good through it. For example my Jackson USA SL1 with Duncans sounds awesome through it. But my Carvin which is actually better quality than the Jackson sounds very flat non-dynamic.

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hmm... i don't notice that when i play my guitars through my guitarist's 5150... and the difference between and rg and an sg is pretty big....

but i'm not in love with 5150's... i hate how they are the big trend these days... so everybody has the same generic tone.

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fucking right! rack gear is my thang.....

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Dual Recto's are just a commenly used.

The 5150 isent a one tone wonder though. Its no gods amp... but im plenty happy with it. And dead what do you mean..??

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Its hard to explain. But I might be jumping the gun a bit. See my amp has sat for the past month because my band hasnt practiced since then and i havnt played my Jackson through it since then and I just got my Carvin. So it might actually be bad tubes. I'll see tomarrow.

ANYWAY. I've looked around a bit and found that a VHT 2:50:2 and either the Engl 530 or Soldano SP-77 will probably be my choice. I figure with the $400-$500 I'll get for my peavey and the extra income I have right now I could afford my new setup pretty soon. I'll also add a BBE Sonic Maximer into the rack and maybe an parametric eq. I'll probably run it through a Marshall 4x12 or with Greenbacks.

I figure it this way (I'll be buying everything used so these are estimates).

VHT - $800
Preamp - $400
BBE - $50
Cab - $500

So with the sale of my 5150 I'll be paying around $1250 for a pretty nice setup. Even if it turns out to be just bad tubes, I'll probably still go through with this. Like I mentioned before I've got some extra cash flow which I'm not sure how long it will last and I don't want to pas up the chance for a new rig.

Any other suggestion are welcome.

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well theres the prices

you can count off the midi things, since he doesn't need that, I guess dead would want something simple and straight to the point, much like my rack right now. I'll get into that later on,

I'de say go and try the Engl preamps, but do get one without a shared eq if you really gonna use your cleans lots. (if you don't, well you could go ahead with the cheaper 620)

Engl's all have a really agressive distortion and a pretty fat clean channel, I've bought my second Engl amp today (Savage 60) and I'm going to pick it up this afternoon in Germany.

Soldano SP77 : don't go there... it MAY be based of an SLO but hell it sure doesn't sound like one! (not even with the matching -fucking expensive- soldano poweramp) if you want a soldano tone, get an SLO100 (one of the best fucking amps ever, period.)

their rack gear just doesn't cut it for me, though if you like Soldano's, you could give it a shot, maybe it was just me, but the SP77 didn't dish out the soldano drive.

Mesa has good preamps, but if you don't like mesa tone's, don't get them because thats all they do. and at a rediculous price...

as far as semi-tube preamps go (the digital ones) I'm not fond of them, I've tried the best, the mesa Triaxis, the H&K Access, ADA MP-1TM3 (good for shred) and the JMP-1...

can't tell you anything about VHT or other american brands which are really rare here. I've only seen ONE VHT here in all my life and I played it, it was a Pitbull (I think) and it was killer (and also fucking expensive)

ofcourse they are really versatile (with the triaxis and access topping the bill) but I feel theres just something wrong with all those preamps, they don't sound like 'true' tube amps to me, though they all sound great, I just don't get the kind of distortion I get from my super-simple Engl preamp.

I allmost bought an Access a week or so ago, but I was really turned down because of its tone, I got the guy to change tubes too but all to no avail.


Well... see for yourself, most people don't have problems with it, but preamps which only have a tube to colour the distortion, they don't cut it.

As for other rackgear, theres loads of great stuff, like the Rivera TBR rackmount heads which go for good prices now.

Poweramps....

don't underestimate what the tone of your poweramp can do to your overall tone... some poweramps just aren't neutral sounding so they influence the tone a lot. some people think going by the same brands is the best solution, (like engl preamp - engl poweramp setup) and I have to say that if you take the same brands it sounds great most of the time.

its no 'must' at all though, if you want more deep tones then your preamp can give you, you may be able to compensate it with a killer poweramp with resonance and presence controls (like the more expensive ones have)

EL84's and EL34's are the way to go, good shit. 6l6's sound more muddy somehow, but it just depend in which amp they're in (hell, mesas with 6l6's don't sound bad at all.)

tube replacement costs the same, 8x el84 is just as expensive as 4x el34
for tube prices, check out www.drtube.nl

JJ's and Svetlana's seem to have the 'roundest' and warmest tones, but everybody likes different tones so you should just try out amps which have different brands in them. or ask dr tube for advice if you're not sure, he's a cool guy

preamp tubes also do a lot for your sound, my personal favorites are the Electro Harmonix ax7's and the Sovtek AX7LPS's for their bonecrushing distortion



Well, you could go out and find a shop which sells rackgear, though most normal shops don't, unless you find a fucking big one.
I've bought all my gear used, never had problems, and it saved me a lot of money, as long as you buy quality stuff that hasn't taken too much abuse, I don't think you could go wrong with buying used.
For the ammount you have to spend you could get a killer rack setup, but be sure to do a lot of testing before you buy anything, hell, take your time, you don't want to spend that much money in a haste.

hope I didn't fuck up with my spelling and grammar too much

i totally incourage the engl pre + vht poweramp with the bbe.....
but, the cab with greenbacks...
have you ever played green backs at high volume? they're only 25w speakers.... so the cone breakup is really early and can get pretty distorted... not good for cleans at all, and they can make even a ballsy amp like a mesa recto sound less bassy, sometimes even shrill...they're kinda, an accuired taste...
for low wattage speakers i prefer g12h-30's, they have a similar sound & breakup to the greanbacks, but more low end....
though my all time favorite speakers are v30's and g12t-75's....

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ahhh the SLO100 the mommy of the 5150

I like how guitar companies can get sued for using the gibson les paul body shape, yet peavey dosent get sued for making and amp with nearly identical schematics of the SLO100.

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play a 5150 and then play a slo 100.... soldano has nothing to worry about.

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Yhe they have slight similarities in their sound, but the fucking wiring is identical.

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yeah, and my car has the same brand of tires that a ferrari F50 uses!

but does it have the same engine!?!?

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maybe the one on the windscreen wipers

anyways, back on topic...

xdx, if you like v30's, you prolly like the v60's too right?

well, i havent really played to many v60's.... but if they sound really similar to v30's they must not suck.

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No I havent played greenbacks at very high volumes so I'll look further into cabs.

I'm kind of disappointed to hear about the Soldano, the SLO-100 probably has my favorite tone I've played through. I'd test one out to see, but I called around every shop in reasonable driving distance and no one has it. So I'm not going to risk it. can ty out an Engl though. And please don't compare the 5150 to Soldano. That's like saying a Kia is just like a Porche because thier steering colum is attached to the steering wheel.

Anyway, I'm not scared to spend another $100 or whatever for the 530 for a seprate eq. And yes, simple is what I want. I have played an Access before and it's totaly not my thing. MIDI never interested me, I don't need 12 channels and the tone was kind of dry, lacked some 'umpf'.

Thanks for the responses they have been lots of help.

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You guys aparently cant read..

im not comparing the SOUND of the SLO-100 and the Peavey 5150, but the WIRING.

The 5150 is nearly an exact copy...

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i think greenbacks are great n', hell, you might love em'...
but if you want that "umpf" greenbacks may not be the best speakers..
to me they work best with cranked medium gain heads like jcm 800's....

say a guitar with super hot pickups into a 50w jcm 800, dimed, pushing a 2x12 with greenbacks... it could get some pretty uberish distortion because you get dirty pu's through some preamp gain, powertube saturation, and loads of speaker breakup.... really sweet sounding distortion for your shredding needs ...

but i think you're probably going for mostly preamp gain...


well, i personally think it's a sweet preamp... not exactly a slo100.. but teamed up with a great all tube poweramp it will give hella good soldano tone.



i don't neccisarily "need" all 100 presets on my jmp-1, but it's just there, i have several different cleans and several different distortions... but i also use fx so midi saves my ass from tap dancing....
if you don't need it, don't use it.
just because it has midi doesnt mean it wont sound good...
and all that "it's only half tube" crap is lame.... most of the tube tone comes from the poweramp anyways....

whatever sounds best to you and fits your needs.

simple is good... i'd consider my rack fairly simple..... though ito most, at first, it looks hella complex... but after like 5-10 minutes, anybody who isnt half retarded could figure most of it out..... midi mapping is probably the hardest feature, but like you said, you wont be using it even if you have it.

my rack:
noise suppressor-->preamp-->(in pre's fx loop)-->ibanez msp 1000(compressor,graphic eq,notch filter)-->bbe sonic maximizer-->rocktron inttellifex(multi fx)-->(from preamp's main out)--> peavey cs800 poweramp(soon to be replaced with a peavey classic 50/50).
all plugged into a furman rack rider power conditioner....

i don't consider it too complex.... but i still have more to add ... i like having everything i need in one unit...... my rack, and anything that needs controling or switching, is controlled via midi controller..

truely better than my old pedalboard-head-cab setup i used to have... more flexible and it sounds better too.



yup

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Interesting.....

lol

Attached Images

5150.jpg (96.8 KB, 97 views)

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omfg!!!! that's such an awesome idea! who does that beauty belong to?

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Someone from the Peavey forums.

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Actually I'm not going for mostly pre-amp gain. If I was don't you think I'd be happy with my 5150? If you have happened to hear the tone on the new Necrophagist cd, "Epitaph", I'm going for something like that. Speaking of which, if you want to hear guitar playing that blows Yngwie away, check out the song "Stabwound".

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well, you can always turn the preamp gain down as you turn your amp up...... dime your poweramp and adjust your preamp's volume levels from there... you get more tube saturation that way....
and vintage 30's also have a really sweet breakup like greanbacks, but with more well rounded sound and a bit more headroom...

and i refuse to listen to a band with as silly of a name as "necrophagist" .... or at least not bother buying a cd or tracking down mp3's....

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your welcome.

about the access, I think you nailed it there. But then you've probably got the same kinda taste for tone as me, and I'm pretty sure you won't like any other midi preamp either, because in my eyes, they all miss the same...

the Soldano SP-77 was a big dissapointment for me, it is by no means the same as an SLO100 in tone, for me it just didn't dish out the tone I expected, but I would try one if I where you (hell, you might love it, theres no way to tell.)

if you can, try out an engl-engl combination, preferably one of the newest series, those poweramps are better then the previous ones. I had a 2x35 engl poweramp which I sold because it just lacked volume for me, but it sounded better then the peavey I have now (just not as loud)

If you want your poweramp saturnation I suggest not to buy a poweramp with a lot of wattage, just see whats loud enough for you, but you still have to crank it a bit, you know what I'm saying? (you don't need a 2x100w for instance, you'll never use it and its harder to get the poweramp tubes saturnated that way) - and replacing tubes costs you about 200 bucks if you get something like that.

I can vouch for Engl quality, I've just bought my second Engl amp. (see attached pic)

as about the V60's and V30's, Engl cabs use those too, the V60's are a bit cheaper, but then again I think the V30's sound a bit more 'tight' in the lower regions, I suggest you just try out a few cabs, you can't go wrong with marshall and engl cabs IMO, but you might like something completely else, also, try the same rack combination on the cabs, else you won't get an idea what its going to sound like.

have fun trying, shopping for gear is the best

http://metaltabs.com/forum/attachme...tachmentid=3330

Hey def guess what?? Where gonna have a sleep over tonight!!! And im gonna play that alllll night. Were gonna have sooo much fun

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haha sure

well, I just got home from a 4 day festival, and I missed this amp more then I missed my rack.

in conclusion, I would never imagine that a 60w amp can sound so great, I mean, it really sounds better then my rack... by a long shot, it sounds better then Fireball's and Powerballs too, a Savage is more 'refined' so to speak....it sounds like a savage 120 (exactly) but only this one goes into tube saturnation easier which makes it sounds so damn sweet!

it came with the stock engl tubes I just got my mail and it had 2 new JJ el 34's and a bunch of EH preamp tubes (gonna try them to see how they compare to the sovteks.)

anyways, I'm out now, gonna play for a while and get my ass in bed.

I'm BROKEN!!!!

i like EH preamp tube ALOT.

EH in the preamp, JJ in the poweramp mmm sounds awesome. I speak from experience.

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Well, its my first set of JJ El34's, so I'll have to see... but I heard great things about the EH's, when I first tried them they kinda sounded similair to the sovtek's but with less noise (if that makes any sense, the sovtek's are really sensitive to harmonics and crap, and the Engl top is a bit more noisy then my rack)

but damn, the feel of that amp... its a completely different world, I suggest everyone to try out the Savage series, shame the one I've got is discontinued. (for about 4/5 years now I think) but you can still get the savage 120. reason for the discontinuement (is that even a word?) was to make room for the fireball and screamer/thunder series. the Savage was above those, but they wanted to sell more 120's and cheaper/smaller amps to make more profit. (hell, I'de pick the savage over the others anyday.. but the richie blackmore sig... mmmm)

how do the cleans do at high volumes on that? seeing it's only 60w and it has el34's i'd imagine they gritt up a bit right?
i personally like gritty cleans...
that sounds like a pretty neat head though...
my jmp-1 on clean 2 mode can give some really glassy clean sounds with a really dark feel and articulate breakup... i like it alot.

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I have heard very good things about VHT poweramps.