Especially if they play like they did on wednesday, which was classic arsenal...á lá 5-1 v inter a few years ago.

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yep, they played great. but have you seen Ajax? Sneijder was phenomenal, scoring twice after he was brought in the second half!
I think they will definetly grow in the tournament, but I don't think they're able to match Arsenal just yet! it's going to be fun watching Bergkamp play on Dutch soil again, it's been ages ago...

PSV is in the same poule as AC Milan but I don't think PSV will be up and running like they where last year. I mean, Park was bought by ManU, Lee is probably going too and hell, their most important player, Van Bommel is playing for Barca now!!

AZ and Feyenoord are playing UEFA cup this year, as are two other dutch teams (which I don't see getting anywhere, haha)
AZ has a good chance to get very far, just like last year, Feyenoord is one big question mark for me, hell sometimes they play bloody marvellous with Kalou and Kuijt up front, but sometimes they just suck terribly, they're not very consisent.

UEFA CUP:

poule: Heerenveen (Holland)

Aris Thessaloniki (GRE), PFC Litex Lovech (BUL), FC Banik Ostrava (CZE), Maccabi Petach-Tikva FC (ISR) of Malmö FF (SWE).

:
poule: Feyenoord: 1. (Holland)

FSV Mainz 05 (GER), Vitoria FC (Por), Hibernian FC (SCO), Rapid Boekarest (ROU) of NK Siroki Brijeg (BIH).

poule: AZ: (Holland)

Stade Rennes (FR), Vitoria FC (Por), Valerenga IF (NOR), FC Samara (RUS) of NK Domzale (SLO)


oh yes, this is going to be a good uefa cup. does anyone here watch the UEFA cup at all? I usually find it more fun to watch then the CL, the level is still pretty damn high and you see some clubs go all out, not that whiney countersoccershit you see in the CL every now and then. I will definetly be watching the whole UEFA cup this year.

Ah well John, who needs owen when you have peter crouch and the empty morientes?

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Owen's a fucking whore. He'll win fuck all at Newcastle. I bet he doesn't last more than 2 years playing in that decrepit corpse of a team.

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He'll win fuck all as long as Souness is in charge. He is the most annoying fucking manager I've ever known, (and everton were managed by Walter Smith), though I suppose if Alan Hansen was a manager I'd hate him more....smug cunt.

Anyway, you can't be a world class striker and play for a manager who (in post match interviews if the team loses) doesn't point out what was wrong with the team, instead points out what was wrong with the ref.

Souness dude, the ref wasn't against your team....he was against you cos you're a prick. You've now ruined Emre's, Albert's and Owen's careers.

My opinion is, ref's get shit from players on the pitch and the player recieves a yellow card. That should be no different for a manager.

Honest opinion about Owen? Chelsea should of bought him; he'd fit in with their type of build-up counter attack long ball style of play, owen being a typical break-away player. Liverpool play too much of a passing game which makes it hard for fowards to lose their markers, and newcaslte are just shit.

And another point about chelsea, if you were a defender....who would you prefer to play against? Crespo or Drogba?

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Personally, because I'm tall and strong in the air, I would rather play against Drogba. He isn't that fast and has a poor first touch, which would allow some room for defender error ( but not much ). Who would you rather play against if your a defender Van nistlerooy or Makaay? That is a deadly combo anyway you look at it.. just play it into the box and someone is going to finish....

Last question, what national team do you think has the best starting 11?

he learned that here.

I'd prefer Drogba too, even though I usually play in a right/mid - make shift defence position. I'd hate to play against someone like Crespo who has such soft a touch.

On the point of Makaay or Van Nistlerooy, last season I'd say Van Nistlerooy.....but this......you can fuck off with him. He's doing what he used to do best, which is get in the right position at the righ time and make defenders look impotent.

On the starting eleven. Fuck our national manager.....he pitting his touring team against teams he should be deciding his 11 for qualifiers. My england stand-point hasn't changed

gk. Robinson ( though martyn has impressed)
rb. Neville ( though injured, put Glen Johnson in)
lb. Ashly Cole
cb. Terry ( NO FUCKING DOUBT)
cb. Ferdinand/Cambell
Rm. Beckham / Wright-Phillips
Lm. Joe Cole ( He waited with chelsea, he has wait for this chance to shine)
Cam. Frank Lampard
Cdm. Gerrard
F. Rooney
F. Owen

There isn't a player in that line up that you wouldn't want in your side. Simple as, i've said that before in this thread and it rings true.

When I did propose Cole as left-mid, John suggested Stuart Downing having a chance......look what Sven did. Didn't even bother putting him in the starting line up in the tour with america.....that i don't agree with, especially since Cole is almost certain for that left sided wing job......which'll increase his versitillity for chelsea, probably making him a better all sider since ryan giggs.


On the German team, there are a lot of players I'd have doubts playing in the Premiership, Serie A or the Spanish league.....even with Italy and Spain. Though France look stronger now Makélélé and Zidane have come back....but Brazil are the second comparable to England.....I just find it hard to believe that I am saying that..........but if you look at the last world cup, it took a Ronaldinho special to settle the tie. Now England have grown stronger in the providing midfield, in defence and now with Rooney in attack.......Brazil have an inexperienced Robinho, and an underachieving Kaka to add to their sqauds.


The best team I'd see from all nations (basically my team of the cup - or my everton on football manager three seasons on)

Gk. Buffon
RB. Glen Johnson
LB. Ashley Cole
CB. Terry
CB. Jaunito (spain)
RM. Robben
LM. Ronaldinho
DM. Gerrard
CM. Lampard
CF. Rooney
CF. Wright-Phillips

If all those English players play to what they know they can, then....well, figure it out.

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Thats the standard england line up pretty much.
But... If I were english this is what I would like to see
Four Horsemen at the back
(RB:Ferdinand(not a flank runner but more like a solid right sided back), CB:Campbell, LB:A.Cole, CB:Terry)
RM Gerrard LM Cole ACM Lampard
RF Owen CF Peter Crouch LF Roo
Call me old fashioned Dutch if you like but 4-3-3 I think suits england far better. Have Lampard play in front of Cole and Gerrard but behind Crouch. Now you have hight for set pieces, speed, passing, and a solid defence... Just my 2 cents.

Def you can help me out here but I'd like to see this from Van Basten

Van der sar
Van Bronckhorst Heitinga Bouma Ooijer (personally)
LM: Robben CM: Van Bommel/Davids (sub) RM: Sneijder/Cocu (or maybe play him in the back)
LF: Makaay ACMF: Van der Vaart/Van Persie RF: Van Nistelrooy

My team fifa 2005 (Norwich) 3 seasons in
LB: Henize CB: Woodgate CB: Southgate RB: v.Bronckhorst
LM: Beasley CM: Robben RM: Park
RF: Eto'o CF:Vennegoor of Hesselink LF: Wyness (Hearts, SPL if you don't know)
I need more firepower up front but I've got no money

How's this for a debut:

After being injured for the past 17 months and being a Real Madrid player for 14 of them, Jonathan Woodgate finally made his debut for Real last night. It was going well until he scored an own goal in the first half and got sent off in the second half! Hahahahahahahahah!!!

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haha, now that's ugly!

van Bommel is doing really well for Barca, scored his first goal against Betis

Van Der Vaart is doing reaaaaaally well for HSV, he earned his team's supporters 10.000 litre's of beer because they won against Bayern Munchen and he opened the score!!

Hah, here's goes:

GK: Edwin Van Der Sar
Defence: Giovanni Van Bronckhorst - Khalid Boulahrouz - Barry Opdam

Midfield: Marc Van Bommel - Edgar Davids - Wesley Sneijder
No. 10 shadow striker: Rafael Van Der Vaart (point up midfield, no square)

Forwards: Arjen Robben, Ruud Van Nistelrooy, Ryan Babel



Bench:

Henk Timmer (best dutch goalie in our competition by far!)
Tim de Cler and Mathijssen (defence)
Philip Cocu, Denny Landzaat, Ibrahim Affelay (he's finally made the selection, it's my favorite midfielder in our competition right now)

Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink, Roy Makaay (fwds)


that's about it... I'm glad Davids is in the selection again for the first time since ages, I hope he plays against the Czechs and makes the final selection!
Same goes for Ibrahim Affelay, PSV's big talent. it's only a kid though so I don't think he'll make it, but he'll be in Oranje in the future...

Holland is No.1 in the poule, still haven't lost a single game since Marco Van Basten started coaching! Even better, Van Basten is the best starting coach for the national team EVER, 15 games without losing is the best start yet!
Next game is against the Czechs, we allready won once with 2-0 and now it's the away match, there's no pressure because we're allready certain of the No.1 spot in our poule

I still hope we kick their asses though I hope to see Davids in action. I heard England hasn't been doing all too well against the Irish? I even heard rumours about Mourinho and Hiddink (haha, right)


Van Basten: http://homepage.mac.com/dt_pigulin_...-van-basten.jpg



Best-goal-ever, by Van Basten:

Het allermooiste doelpunt ooit gemaakt

EC'88 cup winner's goal against Russia, by Van Basten:
Doelpunt in de finale tegen Rusland

ah, yesterday Holland placed itself for the World Cup, we won away against the Czechs with 0-2.

so Van Basten still hasn't lost a single game since he's coaching and we've won the poule, ending at no.1.

I heard something about a English newspaper headlining 'thank you holland' haha, because England is now one of the best no.2. If Holland didn't win against the Czechs it would have been a completely different situation, because the Czechs would be a better no.2.

I'll surely be getting some tickets for the world cup matches in Germany!

by the way, if anyone checked out the game yesterday, van der Sar stopped a penalty, he's really been in great shape last year, in the national team that is, but how's he doing for Man U?

Cheers, Holland

Van der Saar is playing well for United. He's a quality 'keeper- definitely their best since that red-nosed fat cunt Schmeichel.

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they're lucky that they got him for a good price, I think playing for Man U really improved his keeping even further, I hope he keeps this shape!

cheers England for reaching the world cup aswell! I heard the BBC shouting out that you guys will be the next world champions

Yeah, at scrabble!

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hey now, that's quite a feat, don't underestimate scrabble

on another note;

do you watch a lot of the uefa cup? I really enjoyed it last year, there's some great soccer been played in there. last year AZ Alkmaar got very far, I expect them to get far again this year, they qualified a couple of weeks ago..

the CL will be a bit more boring for me to watch. PSV Eindhoven doesn't stand a chance right now. Most of their important players have been sold to teams who do have a lot of money. (Lee, Park, Van Bommel, etc.) and they have a shitload of injuries. They're even lending players right now, which gives them another problem, they can't use those in the CL yet.

Ajax didn't play bad against Arsenal in Amsterdam, Arsenal was very weak due to injuries, I'de love to see Bergkamp play in Amsterdam again but he wasn't there either.. (I still have an old Arsenal Bergkamp jersey, haha, he was my idol for years)

That's the only two dutch teams in the CL that are worth anything but I don't think it's going to be a good year for Holland in the CL PSV would have been great if they could have kept their players. Hiddink is a great coach though, I'm sure they'll play some good matches but I bet they won't reach the semi-finals this year..

I don't get to watch much of the UEFA cup because I play in a pool competition on Thursdays for about 10 months of the year - some pubs put the matches on and some don't. I saw Everton get slaughtered by Dynamo Bucharest though... (hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!). I caught some of the Bolton games as well.

Whatever you do, Def, don't watch a game involving Middlesbrough - they're the most boring team that I have ever seen (and remember, I watch England!). Liverpool played them at their ground on the opening day of the season and THEY were playing the ball into the corner to waste time in order to hang on to the draw. How Liverpool didn't win that day is completely beyond me.

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Haha, AZ is playing against Middlesbrough! So I need to watch it! is that blonde dutch prick still playing for them? what's his name, Van Der Meyde?

Oh, he plays for Everton. Well, he would if he wasn't injured and fat!

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You're obviously not watching the BBC we are dude.

Thank fuck Beckham is out of the team of Poland, this match isn't gonna mean much but I fuckin' hope that Swedish fuckin' arse burger will play the same team, with the additions of Wright-Phillips and Rooney(of course), and have Lampard or Gerrard as fuckin' captain, after Beckham was sent off on saturday they were the only one two worthy of a 7+ average rating.



grrrr, *shakes fist*. I might move up north to Bolton if they get any further.

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*THIS IS A PLEA TO VICTORIA BECKHAM*

Vicks, if you're reading, please steal some cocain from one of your model "friends" and slip some in David's nose whilst he's sleeping, (or day dreaming, I'm sure there is no difference).

*END PLEA*


Okay, there's that one

*THIS IS A PLEA TO SVEN ARSE BURGER ERIKSSON*

PLAY WITH AN ATTACKING ATTITUDE, and preferably this fuckin' team selection:-

GK: Robinson
DL: Cole
DR: ....fuck knows. let's go for Neville
DC: Terry
DC: Cambell

K, now Sven, get Nancy or whoever to explain this part, this is the M.I.D.F.I.E.L.D.

D/CM: fuck knows. Carrick? Scott Parker even?
A/CM: LAMPARD
A/CM: GERRARD

RAM: WRIGHT-PHILLIPS
LAM: ROONEY
ST: OWEN


Okay?....k....

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Oh ya 3 -1 United. Ruud scores again! Watched the liverpool game as well, fuck cessie has like 837659873032 chances to score

news flash:

Chelsea won another game.

I'm not? Owen was the one shouting it

Hahahaha, I was watching the Champions League preview last night. It had Edu from Real Betis on it saying they could easily score against chelsea and maintain the lead.....now, I'm guessing they recorded that before the Bolton game.

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How about Van der Vaart's suspension? That looked like a weak call to me, it was only a shove.....

yeah, unlucky.. it was also the first match HSV lost, haha.

VDV has been doing great for HSV, also for Oranje, scoring a vital opening goal against the Czechs!

tonight it's AJAX vs fc Thun, I'm going to watch that now. tomorrow it's PSV against Ac Milan but I don't think PSV stands a chance. Vennegoor is suspended, Farfan has an injury, same goes for Robert and Sibon, they don't have any central striker available since psv-star Koné can't play european matches (they bought him too late..)

on the other hand, PSV sold Lee and Park too, it's the same shit over again, rich teams buying them out. PSV had Robben, Van Nistelrooy, Kezman, Ajax had Ibrahimovic, Davids, Kluivert, Litmanen, you name it.
The Dutch competition is just a breeding ground for european talent it seems, shame there isn't enough money going around in the clubs here to keep the talent. Ah well.

It certainly won't be like last season, which is a shame cos I hate Milan.

Watching Man Utd at the moment and they look fuckin' dire.


[edit]
and Bayern are beating Juventus 1-0 at the moment. German fuckin' cunts.

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did Makaay score?

I just watched Ajax win with 2-0 at home against the best team in switersland right now but it should have been like 5-0, they ruined many chances because they don't have a real striker... (shame on them for selling fucking ibrahimovic!!)

Milan - PSV won't be anything like last year, last year they should have fucking beat them but they get a shitty goal in injury time, fucking away goals count double, so even though PSV won, they didn't. 3-2, shitty ass match which I will remember for some time. Milan didn't deserve to win that, at all. but hey, that's soccer, they where just very unlucky. Though Milan lost the final, so that's all good! thank god for liverpool..

Don't know who has scored what, except for Henry for arsenal with a fuckin' belter of a goal.

Park came on for Man Utd at around 80 mins and changed Man U's mentallity, scholes was sent off for doing what he does best - terrible tackles - in what was really an awful game. The ref was dire, and I'm not defending Man U here but the ref was awful. I counted about 3 Lille players that should have been sent off. Ryan Giggs has a swollen cheek - the dude who did it didn't even get a yellow, or a warning.
They should have put the arsenal game on this week.

Anyway, I wish I could share those sentiments about Liverpool....but we all know that ain't ever gonna happen.

Now, Chelsea are gonna win it. K, there's my raffle ticket in the hat. Nuff said, chelsea are gonna win it.

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PSV didn't lose in San Siro.

hah, they played 0-0 against AC Milan in their own home

Before you put all of your eggs in one basket, I would wait for Chelsea to play united in the Prem. I really think if anyone has a shot at beating Chelsea it is United. I mean if we are healthy and arn't missing too many key players its 50-50.

not to dissapoint you but manu was pretty terrible last CL game.. I don't know, they need to get rid of all those injuries.

it's kinda the same with PSV, they don't even have a decent striker. yesterday against Milan they had a 17-YEAR OLD PSV A-2 player on the central striker position, haha. and man did Cafu and Stam have a hard time with that tiny, quicky little fellow.

ofcourse, PSV wasn't really offensive since they're missing their vital players, too many injuries and Vennegoor suspended. it's quite a feat that they played 0-0 in Milan's house. maybe they can pull off a stunt at home in Eindhoven when Vennegoor is back.

yesterday PSV - AC Milan was very bad for PSV, they had a very weak midfield, and lots of ball loss. AC Milan was way much better, they kept the ballspeed high...

PSV had luck, it only stayed 0 - 0

The Goalkeeper of PSV was really the man of the match by PSV.

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Hm, on the basis of current form - I'll stick with chelsea on that one as well. Rooney will most probably be suspended, Ronaldo might be in jail, Giggs might be scared of any defender jumping for the ball and I'm still looking for one single player in the Utd midfield that is the drive behind the team this season. Meh, fuck it. Chelsea have everton next so I'm gonna keep my mouth shut until the 6th of November (chel v man u). Which is after Champions League games so who knows....

On the subject of Everton, fuck me. This is really really bad, I don't even think a team that went down last season had this bad a start. I don't understand it either, we have a stonger squad than last season. Maybe Moyes is putting too much faith into a system that maybe only a few of the regular players are used to. He should have used the friendlies and European games to come up with a solution to that kid of problem.

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very bad for psv? that's where you're wrong... look at the group, it's very GOOD for PSV.

they didn't expect to be able to win there, duh they don't have Vennegoor or Koné, they didn't have a central striker and loads of injuries, it's quite a feat that they played 0-0 in Milan!

their midfield wasn't really good but that's because Milan was playing with 10 men on the side of PSV, they where basically overrun. Milan wasn't much better though, they didn't score even though they had some chances, after the first half they where a toothless beast because PSV defended their asses off.

PSV even had a few chances at the end of the second half, shame they lost focus to finish those off. hell, a 17 year old playing his first match for PSV on the central striker position in Milan!

Dude, anyone who get's a draw at the San Siro with a weakened squad did a good fuckin' job.

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Damn, Milan was terrible on the pitch, Ancelotti need to be punched for insists on Bobo Vieri, the Rossoneros don't accept your choice you fuckin' Loser! where's fuckin Gila?

As For the Real Game. Robinho played VERY, VERY well and helped Madrid on Santiago Bernabeu, Woodgate, Raul, Helguera and David Beckham scored.

Chelsea is a wonderful team, i love watchin' them playing, Essien is a huge player, Shawn Phillips were great too and Carvalho and Terry are the best partnership i have ever seen recently. Didier is a huge Striker, Makelele kills and Joe Cole is promissing. Chelsea Worse player yesterday was Del Horno.

Munchen game was great, Juventus had to lose this game, those lame as cunts, Sebastian Deisler and Martin Demichelis scored for Bayern.

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to be honest, I don't think Milan was terrible, they where better then PSV because they really made the game, PSV was just defending but they did it 'at ease'.

PSV didn't even stall the game or anything, they had some chances which I really didn't expect. if you compare this to last year, PSV lost with 0-2 away against Milan.

at home, PSV won with 3-2, with the last Milan goal in the injury time. So I guess the next game in Eindhoven will be a bit better, since Vennegoor will be back from his suspension. (I hope he doesn't rape the match again, haha) Anyways, I'm very, VERY surprised PSV did this well because I expected them to be slaughtered in San Siro.

Real was lame, they're still not playing like they should, sure they won but it was fucking Rosenborg, they where even behind after the first half.
As for Juve, yup, I totally agree, 'lame ass cunts' is right

I expect a lot from Chelsea this CL, even though Mourinho is an arrogant little bitch.

Oi!




If I was gay, I'd do him.


Anyway, someone want to take e-bets as to Everton decimating chelsea this weekend?

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I wouldn't take that bet with your e-money, nervermind my own.

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PSV Eindhoven - AC Milan

1-0

EAT THAT YOU MILANESE SACKS OF SHYTE

Chelsea doesn't seem to be doing all that well right now... jezus, how lame was that match.

PSV is no.1. in their poule now, they only have schalke at away and those turks at home. shouldn't be too much trouble I guess. who knows AC Milan will get his ass kicked back to the uefa cup

Haha, don't let Marino hear you talking like that!

Chelsea only have one win in four games now... and their next game is against Man Utd. I hope they twat Utd everywhere.

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manu is in terrible shape it seems, that last match was horrible!!

on another note, silvio berlusconi (prime minister of italy and owner of ac milan) wants marco van basten as their next coach, after the wc2006! their current coach is talking about quitting in 2007, so who knows... it's funny, the club where he played his best matches wants him as coach now.

United are in major injury trouble again. Thats why we are playing so poorly, but Ruud the goal machine is captain tonight so we will see.

It'd be nice if Utd lost tonight, came out fighting against chelsea...everyone sees chelsea drop some points....Wigan put some pressure on them. That'd be heavenly.

Chelsea were dire last night, wereas Liverpool's form from last season is echoing into this season......I'm guessing arsenal will be going through to the knockout stages tonight.....and PSV fuckin' owned last night. (bliss)

yeah.

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PSV fucking won last night. They kinda played the italian game though. they should have scored that goal in 90+4. hah.

Ajax won too, against fc thun, with 4-2. they're second in the poule behind the gunners. Ajax had good chances when they played at them at home (1-2) but they didn't score. If anyone has seen Ajax lately, they're fucking crap. they've lost all their good players but Sneijder, Boukhari and Galasek.
If they make it to the next round, they will be knocked out very, very quick. Ajax is just a shadow of what they where a couple of years ago.

United looked very bad... van der sar had a marvellous save on that free kick! Benfica was also aswhooped, bayern too.. barcelona was marvellous with van bommel scoring the first of 5 goals in the 1'st minute.
Van bommel has been re-selected by our national coach by the way...

It's a lot more than just injuries, mate. Read what Roy Keane said about his fellow team mates and you'll ge the jist of United's problems.

Y'know, 10 years ago commentators would say the same phrases about Liverpool: "Club in crisis", "Transitional period" and, in the 70th minute of games "That's their best chance of the match".

Trust me, I've lived through it with Liverpool, United won't win the league in the next ten years. The only difference is that United will get a lot more money for being 'failures' than Liverpool did in the early 90's when our empire crumbled: there was no Champions' League qualification (and subsequent windfall) for even finishing second in those days. In fact there was no Champions' League, just the old format European Cup!

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United just need the vets to come back then we are fine.

I agree, I don't think United is 'that far in the shit' yet, they're missing the more experienced players due to injuries..

van der sar made a great save, in other occasions he was screaming his ass off about guys beeing left uncovered in his 16m square... I don't think he was all too happy but the defending was pretty terrible, I don't think he could have done more but he was on the dutch tv and was very, very pissed off about losing in france.

Robin Van Persie did some great work for Arsenal, he's really in shape... it's funny to see Bergkamp and him on the field, it's really 'old and new'
Bergkamp will stop playing soon, he stopped playing for the dutch national team ages ago because of his fear of flying (no, really) but I will never forget the fantastic goal he scored when we won against argentinia

All of you should shut up and start realizing that Wigan is the way.

¬¬

I'll come back to this thread when I have something productive to say...in the meantime, Wigan, yeah mo fo.

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Believe me, they're in the shit. Keane is a shadow of his former self and is leaving at the end of the season, possibly sooner. Scholes is over the hill. Giggs has lost a yard of pace along with any threat he posed and is always injured. Van Nistelrooy isn't getting the service he used to while Beckham was there. Ferdinand is the most over-rated defender that the world has ever seen. Silvestre is just an animal who seems to think that good defending = fouling.

The young players are a steaming pile of excriment. Would a midfield of Alan Smith, Kieran Richardson and Darren Fletcher scare you? No. Even if United play their full strength midfield of Scholes, Keane, Giggs and Ronaldo then 3/4 of it is the wrong side of 30. Who's going to replace them? Oh, yeah Smith, Richardson and Fletcher! United are on the slippery slope, believe me.

With the exception of Rooney and Ronaldo, United have nobody filling in the places of the older members of the squad. Trust me, the same thing happened with Liverpool 15 years ago. The only difference is that United exist in a time where they can generate the money to try and rebuild their squad. Liverpool never had the avenues (i.e. the Champions' League, the Premiership, £billion TV sponsorship deals) to do this.

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ok John, you got my attention to post a decent reply.

Being the die hard Manchester United fan that I am I have the following solutions to the Unted problem.

1st and foremost, Ballack should be at the top of the list of players Manchester United transfer for... why you ask? I'll tell you

Currently, the smith experiment in the midfield has NOT convinced me one bit that he is able to play there. Sell Smith to a club like Wigan or West Ham because lets face it he is way down the striking order 1)RvN 2) rooney 3) Rossi 4)Ole 5) Saha

Next play simple, back to the basics attacking football that the united sides of the 90's were playing and line up something like this

----------RvN-----------------------
--------------------Rooney----------

--Park------------------------Giggs--
---------Ballack-------Ronaldo------------
Richardson---Brown---Rio---------Hienze

Thats for you old skool english fans, something that would please the Old trafford faithful but

-------RVN----------------------
---------------------Rooney-----------

-------------Ballack-------------------

-----Park------Ronaldo----------Giggs

--------------Richardson-----------
-------Hienze-----Rio-----------Neville

This is what I would play, its pretty attacking and there is virtually no holding midfielder but unless they transfer for one I really don't see a solution. Perhaps that obi fellow from Norway would be a good player, I don't know.

Justification: Playing Ronaldo behind Ballack some people must think I'm crazy. But I see ronaldo more of a play maker rather then a goal scorer. He has great passing ability to set up the attack and yes sometimes he can go for goal. Playing Ronaldo out on the wing is a waste because he is so restricted in terms of where he can evade tackles. Ballack on the other hand has great finishing and will score goals. Giggs still has at least one more season, he was in fantastic form but then got injured which was unlucky. I included Wes Brown for the 4-2-2-2 (more of a 4-4-2 but who cares) I thought he defended well after coming back from a long injury lay off. O'shea hasn't played that bad either and rarely makes an error in judgement but still I think brown has the edge.

Is this a team that can beat Chelsea? Tough to say, I'd say Chelsea have a slight edge for starters but Chelsea's subs would ruin United.
If this was the team that played on Sunday I would say 2-1 Chelsea, lampard scoring both goals.

To sum up this rambling my christmas wish list is
1) BALLACK
2) A good holding midfielder to replace Keane
3) a better medical staff because we are always fucking INJURED, FUCK!
Cheers

Which that scottish cunt will be doing in January. He's been told by Mr. Glazier's son that he can spend whatever he likes, I'm expecting a few more decent buys from united considering Quiroz(sp?)'s influence in the squad now...which should be a fuckin' plus considering the cack the youth academy has piled out, maybe it's that "skip a generation" thingy.

Anyway, as for sunday. Chelsea, no fuckin' question. I can't even see Utd scoring a goal considering the recent spate of primary school football they seem to enjoy playing lately. Keane, jesus....he's not gonna have any influence on the pitch from now on in my opinion....maybe he was getting in a cheap shot before he quit?
Their experienced players seemed to have lost that experience this season, Giggs should've left, Scholes should've quit when he quit the international level, (if not a couple of seasons before), Ferdinand....fuck me, I bet Ferguson is ruing that waste of £30m......and Keane is just a tit. Fuck knows what is going on behind the doors at shit-creek Utd, but all those players listed there are obvioulsy feeling whatever is going on....

Ah well, at least Bolton won last night.

Anyway, as for Liverpool. Ever notice that the team that plays in Europe is usually the same, where as the domestic team sheet seems to change every single game? Consistency at a base level there.

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you have a point there but I figured English clubs have a great yought program like the big clubs have over here. I figured they had talent behind the A1 to get them on the road when the oldies make room.
ManU has a very high average age, compare them to Dutch topclubs, you'de be amazed. please enlighten me about the English yougth training, I've allways wondered about that because there seems to be a lack of young talent. (or maybe they're just not given a chance?)

I don't know if that's the case but Holland is a breeding ground for young talent, look how many Dutchies there are playing over there in England, Spain, Italy and some in Germany.
PSV had a 17 year old kid in the base against Milan and they won that game. No shit that little fucking fellow was great, just like the other yought they bring in every now and then (Ibrahim Affelay for instance, who's also in the national team -20)
PSV had NO option, they sold van Bommel to Barca and Lee and Park too (and a while ago Robben, etc), they have a great yought training program so they harvested out of their own crop, so to speak and those kids are doing great. They're still very young though and it's hard to know if they'll progress further etc.

Ajax has allways been well known for their yought and striker training, Ibrahimovic, Ryan Babel, Mido, Machlas, Kluivert and ofcourse Van Basten and Cruyff for instance.

By the way, Marco van Basten was 17 when he first played for Ajax in the A1, he was a substitute for Johan Cruyff and scored, he really stepped in the footprints of 'the master' and that's basically how he became the national coach to, with help of Cruyff.
Everything in our national football league basically has something to do with him, things like the FA cup are called 'Johan Cruyff Schaal' over here
Ohyeah and he's not the european soccer player of the century for nufin'!!

Anyways, that's enough about the Dutch soccershit...

Black_Star, Ballack? you don't want him!!!! he's GERMAN!!!!

grr... on another note he's one of the best players Germany has to offer I guess, he's got loads of experience and is allways a pain in the ass.
As for the injuries, the medical staff really can't do much about it, usually players are trained to prevent injuries, like during matches, older folks are more prone to injuries, with a team like ManU, that's just a shitstorm waiting to happen

As much as I hate the Nazi's Ballack is a great player. Scratch that, World class, something manchester united always lack when they make a transfer. Plus he is the best option right now I think.

The problem with is isn't the fact we're churning out crap players, if you look at the past five seasons you have Lampard, Cole(s), Rooney, Terry, Ferdinand, King, Wright Phillips, Pennant, Carrick, Downing, Bridge, Johnson...it's a big list of young talent that could probably fill an England team sheet. The problem with it is, many young players are being snapped up from smaller clubs, (west ham, leeds, southampton), and brought to bigger clubs where they may not get as many games per season. Obviously some time is going to have to be given, and Frank Lampard coming from West Ham to Chelsea is a prime example, but an example of things going wrong can be seen with Scott Parker. The thing with England over the past decade has been that young players have been more or less obscure until they are around 23-25, I honestly thought that Ledly King was about 20 when he debuted for England against France, I think he's older than John Terry. So basically, there is talent - but the bigger clubs are relying too much on their more experienced players, which I think is a result of the amount of pressure the bigger clubs come under to out perform each other.

Which is probably the problem that has blighted Man Utd over the past few seasons, relying too much on experience rather than scoping the talent in their own academy which they did to full effect in the 90's. Also, Arsenal & Chelsea seem to be getting it right - using younger players along with the crop of experience - and that's gonna have a positive effect in future seasons, though Chelsea seem to prefer using younger English talent - arsenal prefer foreign younger players, which may have a damaging effect on those young arsenal players trying to break their way through the ranks. Man utd are going down the drain - if you compare average squad ages, Chelsea & Arsenal are probably around the 22-26 mark, where as Man Utd are probably around the 27-29 age group - and Man Utd signing a few more players in the January transer window is not going to help them in the long run of things.

There is talent, it's just not being used. Or, even, the talent is being used - but the talent is that decent it is being used over and over again so that eventually, you don't look at them as youth players anymore.

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I understand but what I meant is REALLY young players, here we've got kids ranging from 17 to 20 playing for top teams, they come from their own training.
It's how PSV has become the biggest club in Holland right now, by selling their own talents and breeding new. (Van Bommel, sold to barca, RVN sold to ManU, Robben to Chelsea, Lee, Park, etc.)

Pity they can't hold on to their biggest talents but they allways seem to come up with new talents, they're bringing them in at an increasingly younger age these days.

By the way, I just saw ManU win against Chelsea. haha, the look on Mourinho's face was golden

ohhhhhhhhh John. I hope you had the privilage of watching the best team in the EPL beat Chelsea That was a big fuck you to all united haters and press for slagging on United. Glory Manchester United

United were awful on sunday, I don't even think that goal was meant to be - instead it look like a cross gone wrong. Ah well, at least Wigan are closing the gap.

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haha you sounded like a really sore loser right there

United wasn't that good but Chelsea was crap. They had way more possesion in the second half but failed to do anything with it.


Honestly though, I don't think ManU is the best team in the EPL but they've allways belonged in the top.

United consistently beat Liverpool during the 80's but that didn't mean anything back then, just as it means nothing that they've beaten Chelsea now. United will still be very lucky to finish 3rd in the league and it took a really dire performance from Chelsea in the first half for United to beat them.

I've never seen United hang on for grim death at home like I did in the second half against Chelsea - anywhere would do for the last 20 minutes when their defenders had the ball. Contrast that to 5 years ago when United would be camped in the other team's half pushing for a second goal and it's obvious to see that the mentality of invincibilty is no longer there. Other teams sense it, too.

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Ha!

http://translate.google.com/transla...hl%3Den%26lr%3D

All hail!

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Were you trying to lead us to the top 350 clubs there?


EVERTON! - 218

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HAHAHA, AZ Alkmaar is 14 and AFC Ajax is 45? how the hell do they come up with that, PSV Eindhoven but they outclass AZ Alkmaar by far.

These stats are funny though, there's loads of them on that site! Though I have my doubts about the score system for teams and stuff.

It does make for some pretty interesting reading. I didn't know Romario was still playing, (according to whenever this was updated), Alan Shearer the third most successful league goal scorer ever....I'm sure if he read this he wouldn't be retiring (though I'm guessing he already knows).

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The same way they came up with liverpool in number 1. Puzzling? Yes.

My god. I've just woke up to find England v Argentina on.

Not impressed with this starting team.

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does anyone have a link to watch this game online? Fucking canadian tv, they wanted me to pay $60 just to watch it

The only thing I could suggest is living in a better country.

*sigh*

Argentina have just scored again, 2-1 now. This goal reminds me of the set-piece goal they played against us in the 98' world cup.

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That was one of the best games I've seen since I last said that.

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Hahahaha I do hope your joking.

On another note, 3 - 1 was not a good loss.

We've just won the world's premier club competition by qualifying from a group that included the previous season's beaten finalists and semi-finalists, advanced through the knockout stages by beating the Italian champions elect and English champions elect (who beat the Spanish champions elect) and then in the final beat the winners from two years ago so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we should be considered the world's best team, no?

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Steady, world club championships haven't started yet. (edit, granted there are better teams in our continent)


But yeah, Liverpool probably do deserve it considering their form in Europe last season.....can't believe I just said that.

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I agree on Liverpool, they deserved that spot!

the Dutch winning streak finally ended by the way! friendly against italy, 1-3, how lame is that, a 20yr old defender from AZ (Ron Vlaar) was put into defence and made one OWN goal and helped the Italian score the two others
He was withouth a doubt the man of the match!

I don't think we'll be seeing him back in the team any day soon! How shitty can your debut be????

On the other hand, we had no Ooijer, Opdam, Boulahrouz, Van Nistelrooy, Robben, Van Persie, Davids or Van Bommel.

so that's more then half the team missing and some noobs in defence. apperently our star players aren't motivated enough to play friendly's. Doesn't matter much though, doing 17 matches unbeaten ain't bad, especially in a WC qualification, beating no.3 of the world twice with a great display of power
I have pretty high expectations for the world cup, I expect us to be up with the final four, getting further would be great but that all depends on the opponents and the matter of the team keeps growing. Like you could see saturday our team isn't that great without the star players, which makes sense but it also shows the really young guys aren't ready yet.

By the way, it's good to see England play a decent game again. Not that it was all that perfect but the ending was phenomenal! (sp?)

I'm still dreaming of a world cup final between England and Holland, no matter who wins, it's guaranteed to be one hell of a match!
My money is on the Brazilians though... And don't forget about the Germans, I think they will get pretty far. They allways bore through in tournaments one way or another.

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no real surprise there after the shit he's been doing lately?

Man, that's still surprising. Wow.

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True, but you can't tell me that Ferguson wasn't thinking what Keane said about those players.

then again....who knows....

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He's shit anyway

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hah.

I heard Kuyt has gotten an offer from Chelsea. I hope he goes to Liverpool instead if he decided to leave Feyenoord. I mean, it's allmost certain he'll leave Feyenoord, it's just matter of when..

He's more of a Liverpool style striker and I wouldn't like to see him for Chelsea, not his kinda team and he'de probably end out getting into fights with Mourinho and sitting on the bench. Talking about not getting along with Mourinho, I heard Robben is planning to leave too.

That's odd, I heard he was going to arsenal...hm.

Anyway, yeah Tottenham are apparently going to bid for Robben in January. Though, if he is leaving I'm sure Tottenham won't be the only team bidding.

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I heard stories about the team the dutch guy, Jol is coaching, spurs indeed. they wanted to buy him last summer but chelsea wouldn't let him go.

spurs aren't doing bad in the competition eh?

I don't know where Kuyt is going, he's one of the best Dutch strikers that's still in Holland right now.
I also heard rumours about Van der Vaart, Bayern Munchen wants him because Ballack wanted to leave or something like that. HSV will try and keep onto VDV though, he's been a golden buy for them, he's scored a LOT for them and is really playing great overall. Much better then in his Ajax days. Figures, since Ajax is still flat on their ass. I don't think Ajax will get very far in the CL after the group stage.

Robben should come to his proper home at Old trafford. Imagine that, Robben and Ballack in January....oh shit

I wouldn't be surpised if Utd went for him, they need another player who can play on the left.....he also seems to me the kind of player who doesn't care where he is playing, just as long as it is succesful and he plays in every match possible.....he's not getting the latter at chelsea for various reasons.

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First off Robben won't come to trafford because chelsea arn't going to let him go and second espically not let him go to united...thats just dumb

I said I wouldn't be suprised if Utd went for him, however, I wouldn't be suprised if Chelsea wanted to hold on to him for the rest of the season. [edit] No matter who bids and what they bid.

*sigh*
Wigan 2 - 3 Arsenal

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anyway, more on robben and tottenham

http://msnsport.skysports.com/list....33&clid=8&cpid=

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Robben doesn't seem to get along with Mourinho all too well. I don't know if they will let him go but I can see his point for wanting to leave.

I think Utd is heading for some renovation anyways.

I'm not suprised, though, if he doesn't want to play unless he is 100% fit then it is understandable - especially for what Robben is good at (running in the box, not passing, potential penalty, deft balls in etc.etc.). Another concern for Chelsea is Crespo, I can't understand why Mourinho doesn't play him week in week out. Teams have started to catch on to the long ball tactic they played so much last year, a different player up front would make sense to me...especially if that player is Crespo (a far better all round striker in my opinion) - considering the way wing players are starting to run into the box from wider positions, Lampard has to have a shot saved one day - I wouldn't want Drogba on the end of them...don't ask why, I just think he is shit. And besides, Drogba is going to the African Nations cup in January, I'd want to keep Crespo in my good books.

*sigh*
Anyway, my spirits have just been dampened some what...
http://msnsport.skysports.com/list....retirement+hint

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HAHAHAHAHAHA fuck you liverpool!!!!!!!!!!!! Even with an injured squad we still bet your scouser asses.

If you see a Scouser on a bike, why should you never swerve to hit him?

It might be your bike.


Why does the River Mersey run through Liverpool?

Because if it walked it would be mugged.


What do you say to a Scouser with a job?

Big Mac please.

I'm stopping...it's just too easy.... LOL Cheers boys

Manchester!!!

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Get fucked, you lucky bastards! We dominated you in your own back yard and made United look like they were the away team. I've never seen such a poor looking United side and it was sheer luck that you scored from a set piece. We were comfortable for 90 minutes and never looked like conceding.

Unfortunately that's the way football is. Chelsea play shit and manage to win all the time while Liverpool play well at Old Trafford, outclass United and get beat. That's why I love football.

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Gary Neville deserves a slap.

you deserve a slap. Giggs owned the midfield

ha! Dude, I'm an Everton supporter and I have to take a Liverpool stance on that remark.

Read what the English press had to say about the game:

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/dril...060123-1653.htm

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