well after reading many many posts from the metal crowd, i have been turned away from using distortion pedals on a tube amp. now my problem with that, i have come to see my boss mt-2 sucks, its too thin and processed. anyway that leaves my amp distortion, which is the dsl 100. how the hell can i get a good metal distortion out of this thing, anything i try just kind of sounds like shit. i originally bought it cause i do enjoy tube amps and its clean sound was second to none. but originally i had planned to just use petals (i was young). so any tips for setting this up, looking for a chunky type of sound, not quite death i'd say sort of a pre seven string fear factory, nevermore type of sound

EDIT: and no i can't afford a new amp or anything like that

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some hot pickups, some better tubes, and a tube screamer pedal will help.

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ok cool, yeah like the distortion on it isnt bad, but its just alot more of a classic rock distortion. i'll look into that stuff then, i've been messin with it some, its getting better, but its still just not over the edge, at least i got the pickups covered

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so... is your amp a JCM 2000 or a DSL 100??

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sorry it is a jcm2000 series model dsl100

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you can't get a metal sound from a dsl 100!?!?!?!? those are like the highest gain marshall amps made!.... what cab do you have it on?
turn up the gain....

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the dsl 100 is a jcm 2000........... the jcm 2000's have two types, the basic dsl's and the tsl's(these just have more options).

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Yeah... I just tried out some jcm2000 dsl and tsl combo amps, and for some reason I couldn't get a good metal tone either (especially the palm muting sucked)... don't know why... I was playing them with an ESP viper that the salesman assured me had an emg81 in it, and had the gain pretty fuckin cranked. Weird.

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same thing happened to me when i tried out a TSL!!! it was a Duncan JB in a Jackson though, and it was pretty far away from the strings so, that might be it.

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man, do i feel sorry for you guys..... i have no troubles getting metal tones out them... alot of metalcor-ish/heavy bands use em too...

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then could ya give me some setting ideas, i hate to sound like a heathen but atm my pedal is killing my amp distortion sound wise, tho i really do wanna move over to my amps distortion so yeah how do it xdislexicx

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what kind of guitar are you playing?
try:
utra channel, lead 2 mode, tone shift(on). gain cranked and every knob set at 12 o clock... if it needs more balls turn the bass up... if you feel it's to shrill turn the highs down, if its to messy sounding turn the bass and or the gain down, if it sounds to scooped, then turn up the mids and/or turn off the tone shift. if you want even more scoop out of it, turn the mids down.

mids or lack of them will make or break good tone. you just have to play with the eq until you find a distortion you're comfortable with....
or... close you eyes while you have a friend messing with your eq. and instruct them like "a little more mids", too much gain", "right there", ect.

and remeber, what sounds good with the volume at 1-2 will sound nothing like the same settings with the volume at 6-8....

on my jmp-1 i have separate patches for different volume levels.

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Stop reading too many posts then. It's YOU and YOUR EARS who have to decide what's better and what not. Far too many posters on here are confused on the whole "all-tube or pedal" theme.

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you are right disciple dude, however they do provide a valid point, when gigging the pedal provides alot of feedbacking and breakup problems and volume problems at high levels, so it is more than just what they are telling me, but i figured i'd give the fuckers a little ego boost. anyway thanks xdislexicx i forgot all about tubes changing their sound as they get louder... i'll fuck with it tommorrow midday so i dont piss too many people off with it up high. i do have one question, what the hell does the presence knob actually do? and where should i set it, and for balls i leave the deep switch in

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Exactly we cant tell you want sounds good to you, but pedal vs tube.... cmon thats a joke.

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1.The amp itself will give just as much feedback or even more because of the tubes in the preamp at comparable gain levels. However JCM2000's have a little less gain than most pedals so you'll have the impression it has less feedback.

Then again because it has less gain,you started this thread cause you feel it's not chunky enough.

2.Presence:enhances frequencies of the sound,gives more definition,edge

3.the deep switch isn't very good,I wouldn't use it.IF you want more bass => use an EQ or a distortion pedal or another amp.

4.yes,pushing the amp will change the amp's sound a bit.It's the power tubes that are distorting.A hint of tube poweramp distortion is nice but for most metal you should avoid lots of it.It blurs the sound. Definition is capital.

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alot of it depends on the amp.... people that buy an amp like a jcm 2000, dual recto, or 5150. and then use a cheap distortion pedal.... waist of money.... if you're going to drop the money on a nice amp then use pedals...
BUY A CLEAN AMP! it will sound better, trust me... a mt-2 into a fender hotrod or roland jc-120 will sound much better than into a dsl 100....

not only should you by a clean amp for use with pedals... BUY A GOOD PEDAL.... cheapo pedals will only sound so good... but higher end stuff like say, the akai shred o matic, mesa v1 bottle rocket, mmx metal monster, ect.
will suck waayy less than a crummy mt 2....


depends on which pedal and or which amp.... usually your average pedals are noisey as fuck, while high quality/properly built amps tend to be less noisey...



the jcm 2000's have more than enough gain for any style of music. and it's more usuable than the mt-2



too much presence can cause it to sound really grainy and harsh at higher volumes......


the deep switch is fine, but any amp will have a world of new options with an eq in the fx loop.....


don't necisarrily avoid it... powertube saturation is sweet... the more you turn up your amp kick back the preamp gain a bit....
what do you think makes the jcm 800 sound so sweet? clipping powertubes baby.
but newer "high gain" amps have loads of preamp gain so that people don't need to use a boost pedal or go def.

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[QUOTE=xdislexicx]what kind of guitar are you playing?
QUOTE]

usin my Gibson SG atm, also have a schecter c1 classic, gonna try ur settings now.

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Clean amp: no,the pedal acts as a preamp and behaves just like the preamp in your amp.See your comments about clipping powerstages. Preamps in amps are in fact not more than built in pedals.Does a JCM2000's preamp sound better when built-in in a Roland?

It's not a waste of money if you use the pedal as a signal boost for extra oomph.
The reason why JCM800's and JCM900 are so popular,you can find lots of them used and cheap without wasting your money on a 5 channel amp of which you'll only use 1 channel anyway.


JCM2000's gain:yes they have plenty of gain but it's the marshall sound.If you're looking for a Fear Factory or Nevermore sound,you WILL have trouble doing it with just an JCM2000.


The deep-switch: not a fan of those ,it's some sort of EQ but it's not accurate.You're much better off with an EQ If you want to shape your sound.

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wtf? a pedal isnt neccisarily a preamp..... try plugging a pedal directly into a poweramp compared to an actual preamp. the pedal doesnt really boost the line level, your clean channel would then just be a direct signal from your guitar.... resulting in a cheesy sound.... not to mention hardly any volume. because there is no preamp there to shape your clean signal or boost your signal level.

some pedals were ment to be used as preamps.... for instance, the mesa boogie vtwin pedal, it has a clean channel and a lead mode.... you can simply use it as a distortion/o.d. box or you can use it as a preamp.

have you ever tried actually using a preamp into a preamp? i used to run a mesa vtwin rack pre into my friends crate head's input before i had a poweramp... so i was running two preamps, the head's(clean) and my mesa's(dist)... the volume was gigging level with the crate's clean at 2 and the mesa's lead at max..... so i to be careful not to overload the amp...

a regular distortion pedal will not do that because they don't boost you signal level very much. if they boosted your signal like a preamp then when you bypassed it the volume drop would be HUGE.

the way a distortion pedal works is added gain and sound shaping features at line level.... your amps preamp is still being used, just for clean.
thats why a mt-2 will sound different when used on a recto than when it's used on a fender hotroddv......

most high gain amps such as rectos have clean channels that tend to break up and not sound very smooth.
while an amp based around having a good clean channel will stay smooth longer an breakup less.... making it better for use with distortion pedals.

using a distortion pedal with a clean amp will sound better, and no you are NOT using the pedal as a preamp.

your whole theory is either incorrect and or not properly explained.


spending $1500 on a high gain amp like dual recto is a waist of money if your going to use a pedal. period.
amps like jcm 800's are commonly used with light o.d. boxes to give added gain at lower volume levels. because they are not high gain amps..
they arent that cheap, and that's not why they're popular... they're popular because they sound good.



yes it is a marshall sound... because it's a marshall amp.
if you don't want a marshall sound, don't buy a marshall amp... but yes a jcm 2000 can pull off any style of music that requires high gain.



just because you're not a fan of it doesnt mean it sucks... it's an added option, you don't have to use it if you don't want to.....
i don't see how it isnt accurate.. you push it in and it alters your sound... nothing really to be accurate about, it's just a simple feature to give you more control over your sound.
if you want fine tuning buy and eq.

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A pedal does not work teh same way as the preamp on your amp. The preamp built in you amp only adjusts frequencies and maybe presence and resonance. Pedal usualy chage your sound beyond eq, like distorting it.

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yep

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well then i guess that means i'm stuck finding a good pedal or something cause i can't afford a new amp and when i got this one i was young and dumb on the "it's a marshall" thing. which is kind of funny cause when i got it i was like yeah the distortion sucks but thats what pedals are for. so any suggestions on something better than my piece of shit mt-2

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you were rambling about how preamps were just pedals built into amps or some ridiculous shit..... i was making sure you didn't give newvies false information.




yeh ya did....
l
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not only did that not make any sense.... it was just false.



having a distortion pedal into a crappy clean channel will/does sound like ass.... have you ever heard a s.s. amp breakup? it's horrid....


they do sound special... maybe not to you, but they do to most...
not all marshalls are just as good or better... the mg and valstate stuff doesnt even compare.



i never said they would give you a replica of fear factory's sound.... but if you arent a moron and you actually want your own sound a marshall dsl100 can handle high gain music.


roflmao...
no, it doesnt suck, you're just a baby.
and you comparing the deep switch to an eq is why i had to say that... idiot.

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Are you sponsored by Marshall and Crate or what?

About the preamp vs pedal. Gain stages. Look it up,then come back.

I don't see where I brought up solid state break-up so I'll ignore your comment on that.

As for JCM800's sounding special,nah.All Marshall's that are discontinued seem to sound special In a few years there'll be people talking about how JCM900's sound so special. It's just hype.

The deep switch... sorry but it does suck,along with the switch to half poweroutput and to a lesser degree the effects loop. They're a few of the reasons why people like the JCM800 by the way.

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i apologize for starting a fight, i didn't mean to set you guys off, i'm just sort of a newb to playing these kinds of metal and playing them live, and yeah i want my own sound but the marshall just isn't giving what i'm looking for all the time (nevermore was a good example cause even on their old albums they pushed alot of bottom end but still had some good highs) sorry for causing such a ruckus.

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thier tone geeks, shit happens

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no. why?

you're the one stating false shit dude... sorry. but a pedal isnt a preamp... the way gain stages are similar or work the same are irrelevant because thats not what i'm talking about...

i was stating why pedals sound better through amps with good clean channels.... one thing that makes a clean channel considered bad is lots of breakup... s.s. breakup is especially bad.


if you don't like jcm 800's thats fine, but for some reason thousands of other guitarists seem to swear by them.


right, because your opinion is law.........

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Finally you get it.

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