Sorry if there's already a thread for them... I couldnt find one.

Does anyone here like them? I heard Scourge of Malice today and i thought it was REALLY good. Its been a while since i heard something new that i like that much actually. The keyboards were so gloomy and the guitars played some really nice riffs. Is there new album as good as this one? If it is I know I'll buy it, but the site does'nt have any samples for it. So what do you have to say about Graveworm?

I say they're a damn good band.

Graveworm rules, one of the best metal acts out there imo

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Yeah I think they are pretty great.

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I dig 'em, especially their cover of Fear of the Dark.

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I discovered Graveworm a couples of weeks ago. They simply blew my mind away.

they are good but nothing special

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Im glad too see other fans, but of coarse, Dimmu Monk, I had a feeling you would have a good word for this band.

I don't know why they say that Graveworm is black metal. Since when band without a black metal ideologies would really be black metal? (Actually Graveworm members are christians.)

so it cant be black metal because its not grim and evil?

Cause it's christian. Christianity and Black Metal are total opposites.

Who cares! Why does it matter what religion a band has! I dont think religion has anything to do with what style of music you play. What a sorry statement you have made. Thats a terrible way to view music, especially if it is good.

Well I do, why do you listen black metal if you're a christian. Black Metal's main principle is to slay all christians. You support your self destruction?

I agree with decrepify , you can't play black metal
and be a christian!It's the only style of
music that religion has something to do
with.From the begining of black metal it's main
characteristic was antichristianity

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When did i say i was a christian. I fully disagree, I dont believe black metals principle is to slay all christians. I think that is a very bad opinion to hold. If what you are saying were true, there would be a lot less black metal out there, becuase i in no way believe that every black metal band is anti christian. Thats just rediculous.

Hellblaster: black metal is not the only style of music religion has something to do with. If "in the beginning" its main purpose was anti christianity, it isnt anymore.

Both of you. I think you should open your minds to the idea that a style of music should not determine its religous beliefs. Lyrics decide the beliefs of a band, or the singers beliefs anyway. Because i dont think its possible to hear religion through guitar riffs or any sound a keyboard can make.

Well I assumed that. But there is one big "thing" in black metal. Satan always belongs to black metal, black metal is not black metal without Satan (In My Opinion, but this is very common). And usually Satan's followers (what was made to make of black metal) are against christians. And this makes the opposition of christianity and black metal.

But I don't say that black metallers should be satanists. Many people are Atheists, Servants of darkness or somewhat that, but being a christian and making black metal is kind a sick thing. Black Metal is filled with hate, darkness, grimness and evilness, not any happy optimic christian ideological theories.

If you are christian, and you are in a band, and you make the lyrics, and you want to make black metal. Ofcourse you think that you have to make true evil and dark lyrics, but do you personally believe to it? I think that if you make music (or lyrics to it), you should believe in what you're saying or atleast being in a spirit with it.

I don't like this "tradition-christianity" or what so ever, that you want to serve god, but you want to be true satanist same time.

To believe in Satan is to believe in God. To be a christian and write black metal lyrics isn't necessarily hypocritical because as a christian you believe in not just God but Satan too. And as a 'satanist', you don't always worship the Him, it's more a way of living for purposes that differ through the communities. The ideology of black metal and killing christians has roots that lead back to many events indeed, but to say that 'satan belongs to black metal' is very stupid. Black metal isn't about killing anyone or anything. It's a dark themed style of heavy metal. And to say that a style of music is based on a belief or based on rules is fucking stupid. It is a close minded genre.
Black metal can't be heard, only felt. The abundance of people who consider bands such as the aforementioned graveworm or say cradle of filth deems it almost a trend, but at least there's still such thing as an underground.

Oh and Graveworm aren't very talented imo.

I said that if you serve god, that's christianity. If you serve satan it'
s Satan's serving. And in both ways you believe the existence of christian god. Satanism means that you believe that you are yourself the god. But this wasn't the point.

I mean that if you are christian who make lyrics which have dark or even satanist schemes and it's teached to all christians that all dark and evil worshippers (could be compared to black metallers, slightly not to NS) are enemies. And being between these two leads to nothing.

Satan belongs to Black Metal typical scheme, it's easiest way to express the precence of evil in the music. I agree that Black Metal can only be felt, not heard. Like I said Black Metal is athmospheric music with dark, hateful and cold feeling. But Black Metal is not just dark themed heavy metal, death, doom and others are also, but Black Metal is the most darkest and blackest of these all.

But these are my views of this point. If you disagree, do. But I think that christianity definetly not belongs to black metal culture, and this way it should be. Servants of god should just listen and make their own style music, and stop polluting the unholy black metal with their christian views.

It's still the main purpose!How can a style of music so
dark and agressive be about christianity?It just doesn't fit
with the music!Imagine Graveworm playing in a church!



I don't think I am close minded, for example I listen to
christian bands like Trouble or Zao.I just don't think black
metal is to be played by christians

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Ah, this is such a tedious topic! I just dont agree. I dont see how you can anybody can say a certain type of music must be a certain way of thinking. I mean c'mon, its five instruments (generally) What is it... EVIL NOTES on a guitar? If the lyrics arnt satanic, how can you say the music is? I dont think ive ever heard a guitar sound satanic. Therefore i could never believe that ANY style of music, regardless of the past or the founders, can be subject to any type of religion, I just simply could never believe that.

I have to agree with Timedragon all the way. Black metal bands are black because of their music, not because of their allegiance to satan! Death music got satanic and christian bands. Does some sound more death because of their religion. Absolutly not! Why can't it be different with black metal? You people describe back metal like if it was only satanic metal. In that line of tought, is Deicide back metal? Of course not!

If Graveworm music was in a foreign language that you could'nt understand, and you never knew they were christian, you would listen to them and say how they're a great black metal band.

Black Metal is defined in two different ways: Musically and ideologically (usually appears in lyrics.).

Musically it's defined that it has usually rasp distorted vocals (not as in death metal, as you mentioned Deicide, guttural distorted vocals, but there could also be mixatures of these two, or totally new style, but it's rather rare.). Also as Death metal is raw rhythmed and structured music, Black Metal is that with dark melodies with it. And also Black Metal is simpler (more melodier as I said), more clear and not so "monotonically agressive or total nihilist" music as Death Metal is.

Ideologically it's defined to make dark, ideologically elitist music. Where no other (like christians) are allowed to enter. Black Metal was built to channel the war against good by using music as the channeler, and that appears in lyrics very often. And that is why the anti-christianity, human-hating, satanism, darkness and so on appears very often in Black Metal bands lyrics. (Also NS lyrics could be included to this, but there's many other music genres where this NS:ism appears, but as do darkness.)

In Death Metal, there's usually about pain, suffering and death in lyrics, but there can also be satanism.

Graveworm might be black metal in musical way, but it definetly isn't black metal by it's ideologically way.

you forgot dismembering people, eating shit, making others eat shit, kicking ass and shoving stuff up people's asses and cunts.

Oh sorry I forgot to mention that Graveworm sucks. I don't know how anyone could get the black metal feelings from Graveworm's music.

Well, i guess we're even then cause i dont know how anyone couldnt get the BM feeling from them.
And though you explained your opinions well up above, i could never believe that instruments sound satanic. That sounds like something a little girl that listens to Brittany spears would say. "That music SOUNDS evil". It just doesnt work for me.

Black metal is for niggers. Go listen to some Gorelord

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Eh.. If you say that Graveworm could be good band to get real black metal feelings, well. It might be that you get, but I definetly don't got anything from Graveworm's music. Bands where I do got that kind of feelings are for example: Darkthrone, Katharsis or Inquisition. These are much more darker, hateful and morbid than cheesy Graveworm.

In my opinion in black metal music is built to make dark athmosphere which supports same time the lyrical or ideological scheme. For example if you want to make very dark and grim black metal, and you make some "happy" melodies, clear vocals and so on. But lyrics are somewhat "desecrate jesus' name" or something like that. The music in that case don't support the lyrics, actually it decrees the purpose of the lyrics. Dark Music = Playing instruments with dark athmosphere.

If this was what you ment?

I didn't want to say anything but I can't help it!
Do you mean something like Dark Funeral ?

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Umm not really. Dark Funeral is total total satanic blasphemy. Not very melodic. I really don't have good example for that example which I gave. But maybe Illnath or Demoniac would be somesort of examples. I mean that by that you want to make dark music, but you put in the music some power metal cheesy melodies which definetly aren't dark.

Decrepify: Im not trying to be rude at all but, I didnt understand some of the post that you were last takling to me on. Its ok though, I pretty much get the main idea. Ive heard Darkthrone, but what i heard was boring, so i cant say much about them. And I havent heard the other two that were in that you mentioned right there. I have heard Illnath, and i do understand what you were saying for them. So you dont like them either? Or do you? I dont really want to argue anymore about the Satanic music, or lyrics. I do understand what you mean, and I understand your views on this whole topic, but I just see things a little different. I think that if I expect you to respect my opinion, I must also respect yours, So I do respect your opinion even if it does not agree with mine. I dont know why I like graveworm, but i do. I think they have great guitars, keyboards and vocals. And it doesnt bother me if they are christians. But i wonder... If you favorite band (whoever it may be) were suddenly to truly admit to being christian, would you still like the music? If they were your true favorite, and you listened to the songs so much you memorized every one. You would probably still like them right? Or what if you the same band (your favorite from before) But you were hearing it for the first time and you knew it was christian... Would you be less likely to love this music which is still good, but in your opinion, is contradicting itself???

I think this whole satanic ideology for black metal bands is irrelevent anyways. How many black metal bands are truly satanic,and how many are just posers pretending to be satanists just to fit in? At least bands like Graveworm, ...And Oceans and others are true to themselves. I respect more those bands than satanic poser ones.


Anyways, I could'nt cares less about bands ideology. I listen to black metal bands for their music, not for their beliefs.

I mean by exampling Illnath and Demoniac, cause they got that cheesy melodies, and I don't like that in black metal. If there will be melodies, theose must be dark and grim, not happy cheesy (actually Demoniac is combinating power metal riffing and black metal together).

Darkthrone is very primitive and raw style. Quite plat (especially Under A Funeral Moon). But they have used that primitive style of making music to make very dark athmosphere in the music. If Darkthrone would have made Under A Funeral Moon with some "Sonata Arctica" almoust perfect sound quality, it wouldn't sound as dark as it was ment to be.

I couldn't think that some Darkthrone or something like that would appear as christian band, it would be total impossibility. But IF this would be happen, I would start to think that their music isn't no longer real. They are not really making the music for their views as they should be. It would lead to less listening or even hating the band and so on. Ideology is highly among with my musical listening. But this will be never happened. (Eh.. I most correct: Mayhem. Mayhem's drummer Hellhammer has goed married in a church and he has played session drums in a norwegian christian band. I don't know if he's that's why christian by himself, but even he wouldn't be christian, this has also decreed the respect for the almighty true MayheM).

hmm i actually don't think they're christian.
"'Hi. I have to say something about the rumors concerning the religion of Graveworm. I can only say that we are definitly not a satanic band and not a christian band. We don´t care about all this religion stuff. That thing has nthing to do with our music. Bye "

said by stefan at http://www.graveworm.de/

howdy folks! \m/

I based my opinion to this:

"Awake
Awake Jesus Christ - the world must survive
Awake Jesus Christ - I saw the hope

Crying the time has come
To destroy the faith in this earth
Jesus Christ welcome to be
The saver of this faithless life
Destroying the darkest night
Before the sun will rise for light
saving nature's life
The sea of blood must stoping now"

This is an interesting thread.

Not interesting, tedious.

It's a shame people still don't know the difference between symphonic metal and black metal.



Darkthrone aren't black metal. Ablaze still has death metal riffs though the vibe is black metal. UAFM was black metal. But it's not about the fucking production!



Mayhem suck. Saying that you disrespect a band because of their religious beliefs is weak thing to say too.

Because you are a christian you can't play black metal? That is bullshit.

Perhaps. The views are interesting.

???? When did I said that production quality determinates is the music black metal or not. I ment that bad production (but not too bad) brings rawness into black metal, which IMO black metal should always include.



I have always respected the old Mayhem in the same level.

I mean the new Mayhem. That I have decreed my respection to this new Mayhem both musically and now that ideologically way. This is hard to explain. Old Mayhem will always be the true MayheM. But the newer one is like a other band with same name and some old members from MayheM. I have respected in Mayhem the guitarist Euronymous. Since his death the band actually died and it become the new. If some Hellhammer starts some christian shit, it wont affect to my respection to old Mayhem. Only the new.

In my ideologically way I could not listen a band in same feelings if there would be some christians who aren't believing in what they are doing. Like I said I could listen it because music is good, but a though that there is some christians making it takes feeling low. I could listen some heavy metal or other metal where's ideologies aren't in a big position cause the music is good. I listen black metal for the dark and morbid scheme, not for the music. There are quite few bands which I todays listen for this dark scheme, but if I'll have to name some bands which I listen for music, there would be many. I appreciate Black metal more in it's ideological way than it's musical way. And most of this stuff I have said are my opinions of this shit.

My english sucks

I have found it a little hard to understand your english, no offense though. But i would like to say to you that a lot of people dont view black metal the way you do. And for this, A lot of people dont believe that christians cant make black metal, like you believe it.

Agent OrangeI am glad you view it the way i do.
Blashyrkh: "
Mayhem suck. Saying that you disrespect a band because of their religious beliefs is weak thing to say too." I am glad you feel this way as well.


Decrepify: IMO you should look past the religous beliefs of the music creators. Why does it matter if the individuals in a band have different personal beliefs than you or what you think they should. Listen for the music, not the "ideology". People have different beliefs, accept it, and broaden your mind to accept other people for how they think. I dont beleive that a chritian should be left out of black metal simply because some people believe that it does not make a good combination. Especially if some of those christians are capable of creating the most supreme black metal, whatever your opinion on "true black metal" may be. And i must admit that I truly dont know if graveworm is christian, and you dont either untill the day you speak with each member in person and then you really will know. And if that day comes, you should just accept them for that. Or anyone else who comes along and does not live up to your beliefs.

Black Metal should and it have always been anti-christian music. I still listen music for if it has done in real spirit, I mean that it have done by believing what you are doing. Christians make in their gospel and other religious music in true real spirit. Black Metal should be done same way, not by looking for money, not by being "true", not by not to believing what is doing. And usually in black metal it is in this way.

And in the end, I don't actually care what the most black metallers believe in this situation, I believe personally in this way.