In that case, I love you, hehe!

__________________

Shit! That was for Darko!

__________________

No ! Thanks again.

See, that even sounds cold! I am trying to see you warming up near others but I get a mental picture of you charging your batteries near a buch of borg.

__________________

Oh, whoops, sorry. I posted on the wrong thread...

Nah, I'm nice. Really. I just don't get worked up over shit like this god forsaken war.

Yes, let's all have a bash Dame party because you think I'm a fucking borg. That's B.S., but think what you want. I'd prove it, but I think you guys are kidding.

Ya, I'm sorry. I'm glad that you don't let stupid things like war bother you. I say good on you

__________________

As disgusting as this sounds, can anyone direct me to the video of his decapitation?

I just have to see this for myself. And not for any sick joke shit.

__________________

the link is the 1st post... I think its still there.

__________________

That reminds me of Catch 22 by Joseph Heller:

Major Major (I think, it's been a while since I read it): "What if everyone thought like that?"

Yossarian: "Then I'd be a damn fool not to."

__________________

Spare me your sarcasm, I have enough of my own. If you're not being sarcastic, then disregard that entirely.

I hope Bin Laden captures your ass, and circumcises your dickhead with a rusty spoon you sick stupid son of a bitch. Have fucking courtesy for the dead.

Fucking cunt. This is why we can't have serious conversations around here.

__________________

Returning to the main subject. I think we should let other countries live by themselves. We should stop implicating ourselves in stupid wars. Religious fanatics can't live forever : it's against common sense. Sooner or later, Iraqi people, if let alone, will get bored of these freaks and get rid of them by themselves. Of course, it's too late now, but, in my opinion, it could be the beginning of a "solution" for all these countries in the world devastated by internal conflicts. Don't hesitated to refute me on this one though : I know it's touchy.

You asshole, I'm a chick to begin with. Second of all, it's not a matter of respect.

Yes it is, you have no sympathy, and you go on thinking you are TUFF because you don't show any sympathy or anything.

I don't give a fuck if you are female, you are still a cunt.

__________________

Okay, first of all, I don't think I'm tough. Secondly, I am not entirely devoid of emotion, just about the war. It's impossible for a person to have zero emotion. I just don't let the war get to me.

Easy now. Read the rest of the post before judgment. Every one else just gave her a hard time and it has all been explained.

__________________

At least have the respect to say "that sucks." People are dying over there. Your attitude is fucking stupid, and immature.

*edit* I don't have the time, nor the patience to read this cunt's posts.

__________________

I can't really blame him for jumping to conclusions though. I rarely read the entire post, unless it looks like it's going to be of some interest to me.

Says you, who just asked a girl to circumcise her 'dickhead'.

Anyway...




I'm not sure whether they will sort it out for themselves. I'm not even sure they want to sort it out. Their society is very much ruled in much the same way that societies where ruled in biblical times. Their religion is very strict and doesn't allow for evolution. At least Christianity backed off and allowed people to live how they want.

I guess they've looked at the democracy (and Christianity) in practise in the west and see it as evil because they've been told that it is by their leaders for years/decades/centuries and so they don't want to live like us. It's a delicate situation and it's a good job I'm not a politician because I can't see an eminant solution.

__________________

Fine, jesus christ I'll read the god damn post.

__________________

Yes, lets get back on trek here. What would happen if everyone just went home and let the peaces fall where they may? I believe that with enough time things would get better.

__________________

Christianity didn't really back off. They broke off into different sects.

I still find your comments unjustified. moving on.

I believe our country has a very contradicting point of view. As John said, it is horrible, what they did to Mr. Berg. But at the same time, you have to look at the situation with the POWs. They got an 'apology.'

This country is fighting a lost cause. There is a line between killing a soldier and cold blooded murder of an innocent man. You have to draw the line right there. Fine, you don't want our help? Fuck you. We pack up our shit and go.

__________________

Surprisingly I agree with you in the aspect that if they don't want our help then we should just pack up and leave.

What does that have to do with it? They broke into different sects in over 800 years ago. And the only reason for that is because people disagreed with how it was run. Thats all.

Christianity became more leinient. They realized that they can't rule everyones lives. And thats what john meant. You missed the point.

__________________

I disagree. If we left now, there would be a huge internal struggle for power between the Sunni and Sh'ite factions that comprise Iraq. The victor would almost certainly oppress the defeated in a regime that would bare remarkable similarities to the one under Saddam Hussein.

If this were to happen, all the Americans, British (sorry if I missed your country) and Iraqis will have died in vain. Another offshoot will be that our governments will have to entertain internal investigations as to the validity of the war and to whether they are culpable for the deaths sustained by the armed forces during the occupation. No government will want this sort of investigation hanging over them like the Sword of Damacles, as the sword will always fall.

__________________

Thats not suprising. People are realizing that its fucking pointless to help a bunch of sand niggers who don't WANT our help.

__________________

I agree with you in a respect. Granted, it would seem like a lost cause now, but is it really still worth it to allow more to die for this?

__________________

Oh, from what I know about old Christian mentalities, that's not so true... well, you're right in saying that their religion doesn't allow for evolution, so anyway.



Haha, of course, I was not trying to pretend either that I had found an eminant solution. But if they never evolve and always stick up with their religious beliefs, one thing's for sure, they won't last long, especially in the world we're living in.
You're also right in saying that leaders are controlling most of the people. A lot of them (the people), because they're poor, simply don't have the chance to learn about other civilisations properly - and get an idea by themselves of what it really is. Instead, they're fed with radical and pointless speeches, and, in the end, just get angry for nothing.

Something else bores me though : I don't hear very often about non-radical muslims. I know a lot of them are, but why do they keep silent ? If some of them sort of regrouped together and talked loud, occidental people would - maybe - stop categorizing and inflaming an already bad situation.

That's an excellent point. They chose the innocent man because they are cowards - they knew that he would be unarmed and would not be able to offer resistance.

__________________

Alot of Muslims who do speak out are killed.

__________________

Yeah, but the situation is orienting toward what you described anyway. You know, American soldiers are too busy defending themselves against multiple attacks, and they don't have the time to really help the people. At the same time, Al-Sadr is promising the people help and security against the bad Americans if they support him.
All the Americans, British, Iraqis and other have already died in vain if you ask me.

Is it just me, or is anyone else lost past page 3?

__________________

I under stand from where I started posting. After page 3 its just random shit.

__________________

Ok thanks.

__________________

Many of the Islamic people aren't even allowed to watch TV so they don't know anything about the outside world. It's all part of the control that these Islamic leaders like to exert on their people. If they control the people, then they have power and more importantly, money.

Not one of these Islamic leaders is living the life of a pauper while in many cases the rest of their country is living in poverty. The people can't speak out for fear of reprisal and so we have opression from their own leaders. However, because the people are often uneducated or do not have access to western media, they believe what their leader tells them: they are opressed by the west.

__________________

Ok im trying to stay away from this thread, but when you guys listen to "Symphony Of Destruction" by Megadeth, do you think of the recent global events? Its Creepy.

__________________

Right! And believe I have some ideal other then religious distortion to explain why they hate modern courties... they wrongly see most cultures as a treating to change the core of their own.

For example, think of Al Quida as Amway! They are everywhere and no one knows for sure who they are or where the real leader is because they work secretly in independent small groups with a common cause. That common cause is the worry that they will be taken over by the large industial giant... the enemy is Walmart

Think of Walmart as the US. From the outside it looks like a culture in decline and perverted with mainstream materialism; everyone rushing to out do the others for parking. This treatens Amway because maybe Walmart will over shadow them and no one will remember hard work, sacrifices, and teachings of the great Amway forfathers? I say just let the fear go... because once inside Walmart its not as bad as it looks from the outside. There are some good people and sweet deals inside Walmart after all, but people will continued to be pulled in to Amway meaning that they will never got away.

__________________

Your Right! I just wanted to get the topic going!

__________________

Of course, you're right. But, even if I didn't precise it, I was mainly talking about muslims elsewhere in the world. I don't expect any Iraqi who's attached to his life to come and tell everyone he's against his leaders' acts.

I wonder how many Civilians US troops killed.... be it accident or not. Im not really suprised because ive seen a VERY similar video where they beheaded a US reporter afetr making him read all this bullshit. The tape ended with "Removed all US troops from Pakistan or mroe innocents will be killed" or something very similar. Sure i may be an asshole but after seeing what we do to iraqi prisoners i say we had it coming. Maybe dumbass bush will wake up and realized he needs to take some further action.

__________________

What does action mean for you ?

Either the withdrawl of troops, increased security... ect. Its not my job to decided what to do thats the presidents job... and if i wa shis boss he'd be fired by now

__________________

How can you be sure of this? Al-Quida and the likes don't want our help, but can you speak for the innocent public that has been exposed to the possiblity of true democratic freedom?

But, I think if we go in and "help" (there is a difference between helping and starting a war) andwe are constantly attack, then we have no choice to bow out. Now we are faced with the disposition of being "un-couragous" in our attempts.

__________________

omgwtf. Lots of replies. I can't be bothered reading it all, but, carry on.

Ahaha. For late comers, it will be tedious reading.

__________________

That's absolutely true, that's why I'm asking myself why muslims of the world haven't said anything about that. Or at least, why I haven't heard them say anything.



Yeah, and meanwhile Al-Sadr is getting the favor of the people by promising them security and all kinds of random bullshit. It's really sad. (no pun intended here)

I was discussing this issue with my mother a few moments ago and she mentioned that she heard that his body was found sometime in April, which is before the Rumsfield incident. Does this mean that it wasn't in response to the treatment of the Iraqi prisoners? If its true, what PERFECT timing for the goverment. As soon as the case comes to serves, they open this to the public to diverge our minds. I'll research this and verify it later tonight and I suggest someone else does it too to make sure we come to the same conclusion.

Also Bush stated that we would find those men. Bullshit. Those are 5 well masked men in an unidenifiable room. Why would he make such a promise that can obviously not be fullfilled?

__________________

I'll do some research too.

As for that Bush's statement, maybe some of the things the guy is reading before commiting the decapitation can give clues to find who they are. I saw in the newspapers today pictures of the so-called responsible for these barbarous acts. But, considering the distance between the two concepts that are reliability and W. Bush, I do understand your point.

Hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!#$%@#^$

By the way, even if they found the body in April, the video has just been released on the internet a couple of days ago.

That 4 min speach mentioned "Saddam" "Jihad" and "Muslim" thats all i could understand.

__________________

You missed Kofi and Rummy, offered money for their heads.

__________________

Well, I don't speak their language, but I'm sure it's no big deal for the U.S. government to find some interpreter to translate everything.

Exactly. Them intentionally with-holding the video untill the Rumsfield case was unmaked could mean that they knew it was going to surface meaning they saved it for this special event to distract the media.

__________________

well metaltabs.com dosent have a translater unless atif can speak their language

__________________

__________________

That wasn't funny. Nice try though.

How come then one of the torturers said they were doing this to avenge the Iraqi prisoners ? How could he say that if it was done before ?

It seems though that the members of Parliament, when announced the dreadful new, were quick to compare the brutality and the savagery of these guys to the minor treatments inflicted to the Iraqi prisoners. So they certainly profitated of that event to justify their acts. And people, of course, will buy it.

By the way, Abou Moussab Al-Zarkaoui, a friend of Ben Laden I believe, has revendicated the execution.

Good night now.

How exactly do we know that? Hell If I am going to learn Arabic, along with the rest of us. They could pretty much could translate what they said to anythign they wanted. Mabye they ment it as the Iraqi warriors that have been killed in battle.

__________________

You're right there...

it wasnt funny at all, this whole thing made me sick, i do agee though that it is just propaganda, thats how wars have been majorly fought for thr past couple of decades, take the cold war for example.i think that because of Muslim beliefs the war can not posibly be won, they think that it is honorable to kill yourself with a bomb in order to blow up people who dont agee with you, if we thought this way on metaltabs.com then theyre wouldn't be any old members here, becuase the newbies would come and kill us, only to be killed by someone else who doesnt believe in the same thing as them

i think that the war in general has some good points and some bad points, but reguardless of that they need to finish it now that they have started to ensure that a new sadam doesnt just rise up and take power, as any new dictators may be worse

one last thing that i want to point out is that a foreign war is a lot cheaper than one domestically, since the extremists have soldiers in iraq to fight, they are less likely to kill inocent people in western countries

__________________

The way the media distorts everything, can we be sure that we are even hearing the truth?

__________________

Like I said, the media in this country distorts everything beyond recognition. Thats why alot of soldiers get pissed. The media doesn't release the pictures of the American Soldiers helping the Iraqis and shit like that. Its horrible.

__________________

Yeah like when they kill a kid's father and then
give him a chocolate!What nice people

__________________

Aside from disgust, the first thing I thought about the video was how convenient it was to be released amidst the revelations of the mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners. I don't know of the validity for the date at which the video was filmed but it still seems like a diversionary tactic regardless of the date it was produced. Unfortunately, a murdered man's family has been thrust into the public domain as a tool of propaganda when I'm pretty sure that they would like to grieve in private.

It makes me wonder who are we to tell the middle east that they're society is uncivilized? On the face of it, we have democratically elected governments and we have fair legal systems but if you delve deeper, are we really as civilized as we make out to be? Many of our politicians are corrupt in their pursuit for power, those with money can escape prosecution in our legal systems (think OJ and Michael Jackson in the early 90's) and there are many democratic countries that still operate the death penalty.

The reasons we were told for going into Iraq have been blown out of the water by the conspicuous absense of even the most basic evidence of WMD. Now our troops are dying for a people who seemingly don't want democracy and our engineers are dying for people who don't care that they are rebuilding the infrastructure of a country decimated by years of dictatorship.

There's no doubt about it, we created this monstrous situation and we have to commit to a long haul solution to get Iraq back on it's feet. At the core of this is to gain the respect, help and support of the Iraqi people. We will struggle to do so if we can't even treat them humanely and we will forever be considered as the oppressive occupiers rather than the liberators that our governments desperately believe that we are.

__________________

Exactly what I was saying.



There are 2 reasons for this:
1.) We do help, I've seen photos and such..but not much. So we are helping, but not as much as we say we are.
2.) There is a bias in the liberal media that wants Americans to be against the war and they do this by not showing them.

There are other reasons, but those seem the most obvious to me. Fuck, they have got this all twisted up nicely.

__________________

eh, the usa is helping there, but its also doing more wrong then good IMO.

in all honesty, i've (and people i know) stop giving a fuck about the war a long time ago.

let's face it, it's a non-contest. USA won't give up, Iraqis won't give up. Iraq, as a country, will, eventually, implode both politically and socially. people will have to, eventually, choose a side. that place will, eventually, turn into a resourceless wasteland.

eventually, GWB will have to remove his troops from there and by the time he does it, it will be already too late.

as far as media coverage goes, watch BBC news if you want un-biased opinions and footage.

http://uhpdistro.webcindario.com/tortura%20irak.htm
They are not all real, but most of them are

__________________

this one looks more like a joke,

http://uhpdistro.webcindario.com/26.jpg

ah.. nothing like a good joke, after seeing that horrific vid. but the most disturbing part was when they were half through his neck, and he stopped screaming, then there's a couple gurgly noises.

USA + Iraq =

__________________

Although us and uk did torture some iraqi prisoners, they didnt fucking kill them and film it at the same time. Now that is really wrong.

__________________

i read what some people responded to me, i dont think i should be getting shit for not wanting to see that.

it happened, ive got a pretty good idea of what it would look like but i dont think i should force myself to watch it.

__________________

what I want to know is how the fuck someone can just be magically kidnapped, unless no soldiers are present. And if there are no soldiers present, wtf do you think is gonna happen.

__________________

its your own choice man.

the guy was working to reconstruct the country, yet they slice off his head with a pocket knife, thats some fucked up shit right there people.

he was taken from his car wasn't he? so no soldiers around I guess

Exactly. I have seen some (no joke) sentimental pictures. And its just wrong when you get people who think we don't help and shit like that.

__________________

Dont feel bad, I couldn't bring myself to watch it either. I got about 2 minutes into it and decided that I couldn't do it. I will though. But I don't blame you.

And we listen to music that speaks of this. Its not so cool when it really happens, now is it?

__________________

thats exactly what I was thinking.

but I don't really listen to gore like bands or satanic shit in general.

I don't like that whole act, same goes for BM and its spin offs.

and these are the kinda situations that prove its gay to sing about killing people just because you want to be 'kvlt' or something

How can you be so sure?

__________________

Everything you said is wrong. They did kill Iraqi civilians. And even for the torture, IN SOME CASES, it might be worse than getting killed.

There's a lot of peaceful BM, Def.

The troops are having such a hard time, with Al-Sadr's clique attacking them every day. I guess they don't have the time to do their job properly.

I know, but most of it makes me want to strangle myself

Why? BM is my favorite kind of metal. It's great.

Bush sucks dick, he wants to ensure the safety of america, and his troops, yet he lets american civilians be unguarded, while the troops are fighting. Hes a real smart one.

__________________

Neither do I. Thats why Nihilist gets pissed at me for badmouthing Brodequin and stuff like that. I think its unneccesary, but if thats what someone likes, that is them, not me.

And fucking A to what Corpsevomit said!!!

__________________

Youre agreeing with me? wow, and I like the Gore metal simply because it gets the rage out in me. It gives me energy

__________________

well theres nothing wrong with that is there?

as long as you're not one of those freaks who gets his kicks out of doing sick shit

Yeah, some people take metal too seriously. I think it was supposed to be done in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.

well some people are just retarded, face it kitty cat

The correct term is metally incapable. And im sensitive to my probalems

__________________

Word. Like i said in the last RTT, I couldn't care less what others listen to until they start taking it more seriously than anything should be taken.

__________________

aw shucks man, you need some titty!

here, just for you : http://www.boobslist.com/

Dissection, I'm sorry you hate me. I don't mean to be a bitch all of the time.

Thus the importance of knowing the difference between real and pretend. What to act on and what not to. Some don't know that and so music speaks the wrong way to them. But some artists do believe in what they are saying and that's why they are saying it. It's not always a good thing.

Some of the kids I work with have a very thin grasp on what is real. It scares me to think of some of them as adults, but that's a small group, thank God.

You guys all have some interesting ideas. I've read the whole thing.

__________________

oh, shit, memnoch's mom saw my titty link