I hope I don't sound like I'm whining but I'm really getting tired of these stupid, fucking, little kids, who don't know how to play guitar, giving me (and others) a low vote because THEY suck. It's an ongoing problem. Who's gonna want to look at a tab with a 1/5 vote?

For example: Dark Tranquillity - Cathode Ray Sunshine. This tab if FROM Martin Hendrikson of DARK TRANQUILLTY!!!!!!!!!! How much more perfect can one get?!?!?!?!? Some dick gave me a vote of 1... This is just one exampe. There are many many more.

I'm tired of these fucks coming here clicking a button and leaving. You should HAVE to be a registered member to vote. Why give the privileges to the one's who just surfed in? Furthermore, each vote should be uniqe and show who the voter is. Maybe it would stop these backstabbing fucks?

Anyway, I don't give a shit. It just makes me not even want make anymore tabs for these ungrateful little kids.

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i hear ya man...maybe just get rid of the rating system all together...but then again, for most of the bands on this site, thier isn't anymore than 2 or 3 different tabs across the entire internet of these bands, and in some cases the tabs on this site are the only ones, so regarldess of the rating, i tihn most people who actually take the time to search for a tab will look at it reagardless of the rating....at least they should...

but yeah, fucking moron kids.

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mm, yeah I agree, I mean, theres lots of tabs with a relatively low rating whilst they aren't all that bad.

my tabs all have high rating because most of the poeple that used them where directed to those tabs by myself, and not many others would want to use that tab, I only tabbed songs of a pretty unknown band, so not many people will use/vote for them, thats why they've got a high rating, if you take, lets say a random slayer song, loads of poeple will play it and vote for it, some cunts just can't even read tabs descently and get pissed and vote '1', which is just stupid.

I guess the rating system has its advantages, but it has its disadvantages too.

You're reading my thoughts mate

I will change it so that only registered members will be able to vote. In addition, I might also implement user comments on tabs, I'm still not sure if it's a useful feature.

This will be done around May.

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Comments on the rating should go "hand in hand" or required with a vote. Because how else will we be able to perfect a tab that is exactly right in the first place.... Heh, and make it so you can only vote ONCE.

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i'd say comments are more usefull then the rating system itself...sure people might still comment "THIS SUCKS, YOU SUCK" even if it doesn't, but then someone else will tell the first guy he's a moron and that'll be that...and there might actually be constructive criticism like "oh you missed a note at the end of this riff, it sould be this" etc.

so yeah looking forward to the comment deal.

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Would the comments be only for registered users too?

Yep

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The comments/corrections thing is a good idea. For people who dont think it is right they can look at the comments/corrections and just try another way to see if its right.

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I agree with everyone above. That's all I've seen a lot lately, is a bunch of teens doing what was mentioned above. A lot of them have no clue what it's like to even write and tab music in general. Some tabs take forever, while some are easy as hell...Either way, the comment thing would be a great idea while only members have access..

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OK, I'm with that then. You wouldn't get all the "YOUR TAB SUCKS" nonsense then.

..Unless someone registers solely for that purpose, of course.

hahaha

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its a pity that the tabs dont stay too long in the posting forum, whcich would give people a bit of a chance to put a few comments in there

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I agree with BOC

then post quicker,

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Seems like a good idea to me. The user comments will give anyone viewing the tab an idea of how the tab has been received by other members and could possibly influence a more accurate vote rather than just an ignorant click of 1.

A log of who voted would be a good idea too because that would also encourage people to be honest with their votes and not deliberately give a tab a low score out of petulance.

How about that a tab is required to have at least one vote from a mod? There are a few mods around so taking the time to rate a tab of a song that they are familiar with shouldn't take too long. Each tab could have a "moderated by ---" tag and the respective vote. I think this would also influence people to vote honestly and would give every tab at least one vote and therefore a rating. Maybe this would be too time consuming for the mods, but I think it would be a good feature.

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I vote quite often. I've given most of your tabs a top rating, John. And a few other great tabs I've seen on here I have given the highest rating. It wouldn't be time consuming for me, as it's just a regular thing.

It seems there's a lot of voter apathy around, but you're the obvious exception, Nihilist! I try to vote for all the tabs that I know, especially since the top tabber list has been up and running.

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A voting log is a great idea!

Also, how about moderating all user comments? This can be easily implemented with vB engine but will add some work to moderators.

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I will try to control myself...

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no no quick updating is the best way to go...now there is no more people complaining about thier tabs taking to long to get uploaded.

as for mods rating every tab...i don't know half the songs being tabbed, and don't really wanna download a song just to make sure the tab is complete...sure between the 3 of us (or all the mods if that is what it will come down to) at least someone will know the song, but what if no one knows the song? WHAT THEN!?!?!?!?! WHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT??!?!?!

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somebody will have to download it

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I know if I was a mod and none of the other mods knew the song, I wouldn't be too impressed about having to download a song just to give a tab a rating. That's the downfall of the idea, I suppose, and would probably be a stumbling block. Oh well, back to the drawing board!

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I'm up for whatever work I have to do. That's part of being a moderator, right?

I think you should have to be registered to vote on this shit. At least that way we keep asshole kids who have absolutly no knowledge of guitar playing, from fucking with other people. I dont know, maybe that is too complicated. I like the idea of showing who voted that way, too.

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It can't be too bad look how they do it here. It's perfect. http://www.powertabs.net/pta.php?page=song,7065

That's same tab that some fag gave me a 1 on this board...

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yeah thats a pretty nice rating system setup there.

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how about this idea

the registered users rate the pending tab, and comments are necessary

Then mods, using the Vb engine, upload the tab themself.

they will upload the tab after seeing a fixed number of good votes
So if a tab got 4 good votes, then the mod would upload the tab

If we did that:

1. Nomad wouldn't have to do much, except supervise
2. We only get good tabs uploaded to the site, which is voted by the users themselves
3. If someone rates the tab a 1 and says "this sucks" for no reason, they'll just be ignored (those would be the non-good votes)
4. The tab wouldn't be dependent on the 3 mods to download and listen to it. The users would know the song

So my idea is, the tabs get rated BEFORE they get uploaded to the archive, which means that the archive only has good tabs


If you didn't notice, this is very similar to the Powertab archive interface
except
you don't have to become a "public voter" to vote, anybody registered can
the rules won't be Super-anal

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how about forum members with 6 month or longer membership are the only ones that can vote, and its just in a private forum

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I like your idea Atif, it seems eminantly workable. It would encourage people in the forum to vote and make comments on tabs. This would give tabbers either positive or negative feedback and will help them to make improvements in the future.

U_H: I don't think a minimum membership period is necessary as stupid tab ratings from one-post-wonders can be omitted by the mods in Atif's proposal.

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I don't like the idea. There is too much bias out the to make it work. I posted like 50 Obituary tabs and got like 3 comments...

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I agree with James. On average, there is only 1 vote for 400 tab visits. Now find a tab in the Pending Tabs forum that got 400 visits. There are none!

Please keep posting your ideas. There are already heaps of great ones, but... quaere verum

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I like Atifs idea but it has flaws, Some bands maybe noone has heard of except the person who tabbed it, and also it would take a while to search through all the tabs

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searching .....??

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i don't think its neccessary to half to vote on tabs before them being uploaded into the site...everything seems to be going relatively smoothly thus far, and this is a new submission procedure and all, so lets just keep it as is for a while and see what it turns into.

i only post tabs i'm sure are near perfect, as well as most the regular tabbers in here...we only really have to worry about the random tab people...so maybe a bad tab or two slips through the cracks, every tab page has shitty tabs, metaltabs is definately no where near as bad as alot of pages out there.

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I think someone should have to play through the tab to see if its right, first. If it isnt, it doesnt get posted.

Only problem is that it gets kind of complicated.

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it takes time. the current way its going at a freakin speed.

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Im sure people do that but regardless it will get posted and even if it is right, queers post bad ratings. And if we were to get rid of the ratings then it would take too much time.

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I have a shitload of tabs that i haven't gotten around to posting mainly for those reasons. And others because they are pretty lenghty and I think I read somewhere they can't be that long. But anyways, I like the idea of having registered voters only because for the most parts the people in this forum are most likely to help you out rather than bust your balls if you post a shitty tab...for the most part, heheh.

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haha I never noticed your sig before, hahahahahha.

this is what I think:

1. only registered users vote
2. REQUIRES a vote BEFORE you leave the tab, that way you WILL get a sufficient amount of votes.....sorta like paying for a porn site, but getting the free trial...
...but after that first vote, you can't vote again, so it's final. And if the vote comes with a dumb comment, the tab mods can delete the vote altogether.
3. Along with the vote, must have a comment, not "sucks balls", etc., but this note here is wrong, yadda yadda yadda..
4. the second the tab is posted into the "Pending Tabs" forum, the tab gets locked, cause there's no need for it to get a comment there, just look it up in the home page to comment and vote.
5. If the solo can't be done, then the rest of the song must be tabbed.

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These are pretty strict rules, you might get a few confused people.

I wouldn't think so...I mean, what is there that someone couldn't get?! If you try to exit a tab, a box can pop up and tell you to vote before you leave.

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yeah, and they ignore em

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Hahah, your sig is pretty sick too man, heheheheh.

But yeah, good ideas.

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On the problem of voting, I first thought about a requirement to vote if you view a tab but I don't think it would work. It would mean that the mods would have to moderate after each hit that a tab on the site receives. There are roughly 5'000 tabs on the site and even if each tab gets just one hit a day, that's a lot of moderating of comments to be done for only a handful of guys.

I think maybe the solution to voter apathy could be resolved by advertising the voting facility more obviously. Maybe a sign on the homepage could read something like:

"Here at metaltabs.com we strive to be the best metal tablature site on the net. However, we are always looking to improve the quality of our archive and in order to do this we need your honest feedback. So please take the time to vote for any tabs that you view and are familiar with. It's this feedback that can help us to maintain the high standards we have set at metaltabs.com. Thanks."

Or something like that.

Maybe we could all include a note at the top of our tabs asking people to vote and comment. It could be incorporated into the tab template (something else will have to be worked out for PT) and read something like:

"If you like this tab then please take the time to give it a rating and make a short comment. Even if you don't like it, please still vote and include a brief comment as to why. Thanks."

I think with these regular encouragements we might manage to get an increase in voting.

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isn't the entire point of the pending tabs page to comment on the tabs??

frankly, i don't give a fuck if people rate my tabs or not, i know thier good enough, thats why they're posted.

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I thought the point of "Pending" tabs was to first see if it wasn't stolen, then if it's relatively long enough to be a sufficient tab. That's sorta what pending is right? Waiting to be decided or settled...likely to happne soon? Then it gets put up on the site.

why wouldn't you give a fuck?! Heh, your posts on the first page of this thread tell me otherwise....

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"REQUIRES a vote BEFORE you leave the tab, that way you WILL get a sufficient amount of votes.....sorta like paying for a porn site, but getting the free trial..."

That would be a bad idea. How many people download a tab and play it on the spot? Most people I know of print it out and play it at a later date. It would generate inaccurate feedback.

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Sometimes, I play the tabs straight away, before leaving feedback. But that's just me, I can't speak for everyone.

Yeah I always tab out my song to the fullest extent of my hearing. I do the absolute best i can and i dont tab it out till I figure it out, and then I check by playing it through.

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hahahahaha, that...had nothing at all to do with the current conversation.

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shit i didnt realize there was another page. My bad

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alright alright, i ONLY care about the rating if those bastards give me a low one for no reason. sure its nice to see good ratings, but its not completely needed, unless its something along the lines of the powertabs rating system that inverted linked to earlier in the thread.

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well I think they matter, if there are about 3-4 tabs of every song.

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Yeah, it's a pain in the neck looking through 3 or 4 tabs and deciding which is the best one. If you're not bothered about the accuracy and know you can correct the tab anyway, then it doesn't matter so much which tab you click on. But beginners or less advanced players will definitely find that a ratings system makes thier tab search more time efficient.

I'm all for the rating system but I don't think that whether we keep it or not is the debate here. What we need to do is find a way to increase the number of accurate votes. From reading through, the idea that seems to be unanimous is that voting should only be a perk afforded to registered users. So all that needs to be discussed now, is how do we encourage more users to vote for tabs they know?

I still think that maybe the best way of doing this is to associate voting with an increase in quality of the tabs and to present this idea in an increased number of notices (at the top of the Pending Tabs forum and on the tabs themselves). People won't want to submit a half-arsed attempt if they know they're going to get a 1 or 2, therefore raising the quality of tabs on the site.

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I post a lot of unknown underground stuff, which nobody knows...they never vote for my tabs, that's why it's low.

I agree I have stuff which isn't tabbed perfectly, so im busy to redo all the stuff...and let it play by others before I post it.

But most tabs of mine have a low vote, cause many of those guys who barely play for a year, voted a one, cause they can't play at all.

Second I have problem, with writing out the rhytm parts, so if you think some stuff is played more then once... it probably is.

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Maybe it is good, to make some stuff, that voters which give lower then a 3, should make an explanation why it's so bad...if they don't post it at the voting point, it doesn't count as a vote. The rating system won't add the rating by an empty space.

Probably hard to make, but maybe a solution for all of that!

Lemme know what you all think of the ideA?

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or have it like e-bay, so that tabbers can manage their own tabs, they can respond to poor ratings, or request deletion of low ratings

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Seeking the truth

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I'll try to sum up the proposed changes.

• Only registered users will be able to vote.
• The vote may (or must?) be accompanied by a comment.
• Low ratings with pointless comments like "this tab sux" will be deleted.
• Advertise voting as proposed by John.
• One vote/comment per tab per member.
• No votes for your own tabs.
• No votes for your competitor's tab (same song).
• List of voted members per tab.

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MUST be accompanied by a comment!

It all seems good to me, but I find that one funny :



It's a competition ?

Well, when there are 5+ versions for the same song, I guess it is...

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That sounds good Nomad. And the feature where we can edit tabs in our profile instead of resubmitting it......will that be here sometime....?

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Yes, hopefully this month...

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yeah everything else seems good

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we can criticise it better when we have something to criticise

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i think a user comments would be useful, to us the tabbers. it could help us find what are weaknesses are and such (to confusing, jumbled), and we couldd watch for that when posting future tabs

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OK, first of all, INVERTED had a beef with people deliberately voting low. And NOMAD, you could have just told him "they're just numbers" like you told me in another thread (you know, where I pointed out that people might deliberately do easy tabs to get 5/5 ratings; and I always try to tab stuff that challenges me, etc). The only other reason I could think of for that 1/5 vote, other than someone just being stupid (which was most likely), was that someone may have thought it was copied and thus gave a low rating.

Anyway, its about time the issue of tab feedback is being properly addressed. From day 1 that I came to this site, I noticed lots of bodgy-arse tabs and lots of good tabs with minor mistakes. It was usually the case that I did a tab, then as I went to post it, someone beat me to it with a version exactly the same as mine, but with afew mistakes. Then it took like 3 months for the tab to be processed, so there was no point in me posting my version, as it would be duplicating much of the other tab.

I'd like to see a system that allows comments and corrections to be made to tabs even after they are processed, but they are locked and uneditable at that stage for a good reason; you don't want to download/print off a tab and then come back the next day and its changed. However, it was still possible to update the tab, albeit much slower.

The ideas I've seen for voting and feedback are good. The only thing I can add is that you make processed tabs still editable by the owner and allow comments to be posted under the tab. Allowing members to specify (when they download a tab) that they'd like a private message or email when the tab is edited. But still, that could be alot of database overheads, so any better ideas?

I also thought of "voting on the voters", hehehe. If someone's comments for a tab (in the potential feedback system) have no truth or validity to them (bear in mind, some flexibilty must be exercised for variations in opinions), then people can vote on what they think about that voter. e.g. you could have 5 options or so: e.g. "Plays guitar sounding like they took a dump on the strings", "Couldn't Play/Rate a Tab If They Tried", "Likes to be an Average Joe", "Usually Right", "Oh Wise One". And that title appears under their avatar with all the other stuff.

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Hey,

As I already said, I will implement both the edit function AND the comments.

I will think about the vote on the voters and tab subscription ideas, thanks for them!

In my opinion, the value and the main purpose of the voting system is not to show who's the coolest tab genius but to help picking among the different versions of the same song.

I will of course try to better the system so that it properly assesses the absolute tab quality as well, but IMHO the system will never be perfect.

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lol, I was kinda being sarcastic about the vote on the voters

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Would it be possible to introduce half ratings into the rating system? Or to make it from 1-10? There have been a few occasions where I've seen a tab that is not quite perfect (therefore not deserving of a 5) but a rating of 4 seems a bit harsh. I think it would allow voters to be more specific and the ratings may therefore reflect the accuracy of the tab better.

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You know, INVERTED has a point. I don't know if that has already been said, but I'm not going to read the entire fucking thread.

Yeah I noticed this too. Like maybe one riff is off by maybe two, three notes, and the rest is completely perfect.

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How about adjusting your rating to the current one. For instance, if it's already rated at 4, you vote 5; if it's at 5, you vote 4, thus moving the overall mark to 4.5

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Never thought of that!

Also, are we going to be able to make comments on tabs soon?

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Yep, in a few months...

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how much points you get for a 5/5 rated tab ?

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2

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Hey, some faggot-arse face fuckwit went through and voted several of my tabs with a 1. The score went from 18 or something down to about 15 in no time at all.

Hurry up and bring in the feature where we can see who votes and their reason. I'd like to bust their punk-ass. Obviously someone on the forums don't like me, or perhaps someone is trying to better their own score by cutting down the tall poppies eh?

Well whoever it was either own up, or consider yourself a royal fuckwit. You're dragging down the metaltabs site.

Not that a give a flying fuck about my score, but I'll get Nomad or someone to go through the transaction logs of the database if it gets worse to find out who the people are that vote several "1s" in close proxmimity. Better yet, Nomad, secretly log votes without telling us so you can kick off trouble makers.

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it should have 3 votes at the minimum

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ah ok, now I understand ..thx

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I really can't understand why people vote good tabs low deliberately, it defeats the principle of a community sharing music. It's so childish...

It always seems silly when i finally go for that tab that got one star and it's the best of the lot. When I was a beginner and i read a tab that i thought was bad, i usually put it down to me being a bit shit on guitar, not the tab being shit - so i just wouldn't vote. i've been playing for 6 years now, and i'm not bad, but i still do the same. If it sounds wrong and its a hard riff, I usually put it down to my mistakes.

btw - if anyone's into superjoint ritual, i would love to hear some feedback on my tabs

Hey that's a good way to look at it. But then that defeats the purpose of a score system. This score system is causing more problems than its worth mainly because it shows all of your tabs together; so some cunt can vote them all a 1. Well they're probably laughing right now (btw I am not pissed off, but look here; I'd like to rip your balls off and hang em on my rear view mirror after I kick them up so far up your arse that you choke on your own puke as they become lodged in your throat). There's always afew scum-fucking-bags that try to ruin it for everyone else.

Now I know what Inverted feels like getting deliberately shitty votes. Hrm, where are those people on the top tabbers list. They just wanna drag everyone down into a sespool of mediocre scores. I normally vote honestly, but if I see other people being victim to this shit, then I might go and give all their tabs a 5.

Did some maths:

If you have a tab that has {score = 4.5, votes = 4} and someone votes it a '1', it takes 7 '5' votes to bring the score back up to 4.5.

Its worse for tabs with a score more than 4.5.

By the way, I wonder how DarkenElf's score went from 16.00 to 19.XX in one day, and I'm just below and mine went down.

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Hey, please stop these wars.

The new rating system will be in place this summer, and I WILL void all old anonymous votes once there are enough new ones.

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Yeah, that'll work.

That sounds like a good idea. This new system is going to be excellent!

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Im sure Nomad will be a gentleman about it and perfect it like he always does.

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Heh, now if someone gives out votes of 3 or less, people can scrutinise their tabs back. Kudos to Nomad on another brilliant idea.

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I think an interesting idea might be to allow only credible, responsible, and established tabbers the right to vote. I think this system would work especially well if older tabbers scrutinized the tabs of younger tabbers and gave them new ideas and pointers on how to improve that particular tab and the overall quality of their future tabs. Just an idea, it really doesn't matter much to me.

Personally, I don't give a shit, because when I see a tab I want, I download it regardless of what rating it is. Although I can be insulted when somebody tells me my tab sucks, if it gets a low vote, that's completely different, because 9 out of 10 times it's just a troll fucking around. Most of us are used to there being dicks in the world who like to ruin things, and thusly we ignore their actions.

i dont know if its too late for input on the voting system, or if this has already been said,

but what if you voted, or didnt vote. im talking every vote was 1 point, insted of an "X/5" system ir\t was just if you like the tab, vote for it. its simple and completely effective, in my views.

and if we want to keep it for criticism you could have a seperate comment button like
"Vote For This Tab"
"Criticism For The Tab"

these types of buttons? and if ther were many different tabs for a song you would be able to tell what was best by the amount of votes it had?
this is just my opinion.....

What about merchandise discounts based on scores as a reward system. Or what about if someone goes beyond the call of duty tabbing a song (10/5 votes anyone?). e.g. I'm trying to tab "Emaciate"; it's taken a year so far and not even half the song. And some fucker will just vote it a 1; not worth my time. I might as well tab a 1 riff Coal Chamber song and get a 5/5 vote.

My point is; before the score system the metal tabbing community was all contributing, helping each other out. Now, the score gives everyone a reason to turn it into a stupid competition, instead of what it should do; provide an accurate reflection of somebody's contributions in both terms of quantity and quality.

Maybe a souped-up system where a vote is comprised of weighted parameters such as ratings for (#riffs/complexity), (quality/note-4-noteness), (structure/legend), and (overall).

If any of that sounds stupid, well maybe it is. I'm just speaking my mind and rattling off afew thoughts.

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how bout your rating is based out of 5, just like the tab votes, and it is just the average of all your tabs...it doesn't keep people from voting stupidly, but i noticed spirit crusher might be kicked pout of the top tabbers list and almost every tab has a vote of 4 or 5, and all the tabs he has done are fucking wicked and tough songs too.

you'll need to have a min. number of tabs for the list though, or else the top people might be a bunch w/only 1 or 2 tabs done.

also, who cares if people tab "easy" songs or not, as long as they are tabbed right...i tabbed alot of Crowbar and Rammstien, does that mean i should have a low overall rating because of it??

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I agree with the Father somewhat. The rating system is making a whole bunch of people bitchy, but it is kinda cool to see your name on the list, mainly why people are rating other persons 1 and their own 5 simply to get high on the list. I think it could go just by number of tabs, that way the poeple can say that they did a shitload of work and got credit for it.

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i don't think if you vote on your own tabs it even counts.

ok, one list MOST TABS , the other BEST RATING

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But you see, with the best rating thing, people are still going to be going gay and voting tabs bad to get on the top of the list, even if the tabs are good. Im sure thats what happened to me when I was number 6 on the list someone voted a 1 on all of my tabs when I know my tabs were AT LEAST a 3. Im not saying I didnt put all my effort into it, but to my knowledge it was correct. I dont give a shit about the score but its the tab rating is what sucks. If people see a tab with a 2 they arent going to look at it.

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I'll look at a tab no matter what it's rated, unless it's one of those songs that's been tabbed by 72 people, in which case I usually just download the first 2 or 3 I see and work with those. It's easier to modify a decent tab with some mistakes in it than it is to download, save, and sort through 17 million tabs of the same song. The ratings reflect somewhat, but most people know the system is flawed, and I highly doubt most people take it too seriously. The only people who seem to be continuously bothered by the system are tabbers. It's simply not that big of deal.

Anybody who makes a big deal about this is basically granting the right of assholes to take control of their emotions. You shouldn't allow them that privledge, especially not on such a trivial matter. Unethical people who want to give other tabbers low votes to raise their own scores, if in fact they exist, are pathetic, and only become important if you make them important by actually caring about this whole thing. Likewise, morons who either can't play guitar for shit and vote low for your tabs should be ignored, because their importance is extremely low until you make them important by complaining about it.

Basically, they are just numbers. Let's not get carried away.

Juhu ... my first score for a tab !

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He's got it exactly right, i don't vote for tabs, cos im not a good enough guitarist yet, to criticize other people's works. But yeh, what he said

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you only say that because you have a high score, so of course it doesn't bother you.

hehe, just messing with ya.

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