I play classical guitar, using a pick there is just stupid.

He wasnt saying that playing metal on bass is supposed to be with your fingers, he said that bass in general was designed to be played with fingers, whicch is true (as far as i know). And this thread has nothing to do with guitars, but as far as i know, guitar WAS originally used with fingers.

yep if you dont use your fingers on bass you are going against the utter history of the instrument.... i guess that would be saying guitar players should do the same, but i have seen fingerstyle guitar players who are just as fast as pick players

Not to mention the fact that using a pick versus using fingers on a guitar doesn't seem to change the sound that much, but maybe thats cuz im a bassist. That sound of a pick being used on a bass just hurts to hear imo unless its on high notes. Guitars sound great with picks, but basses...well......

Well, i have longer than usual finger nails on my pick hand so i tried to finger pick bass last night. It sounds like i'm using a pick! I get a little 'scratch' just as i release the string from a pluck. I used my thumb and it has a very soft sound. I guess it depends on what you're looking for. for quieter songs, i try to to finger pick to keep it smooth. when the songs pick up, i get my pick in there just to keep up!

__________________

fingers only for me

__________________

cut your damn fingernails man..and practice your speed with fingers

__________________

oh and if youve noticed there are no "great" pick bassists. i mean great as in recognizeable for playing bass with astounding skill

__________________

sean fimmers from necrophagist is the only good player who plays with a pick

Word. Except it is useful on some of Paganini's caprices and Bach's Inventions. I can't fingerpick those studies at the tempo they are meant to be played at.

__________________

That's my main weakness i can't finger pick at all.

__________________

Practise....<unt.

__________________

Thats really odd, because ive got a couple of pictures of the Necrophagist bassist, and hes using his fingers.. maybe they have a new bassist?

http://musicweb.cz/data/1588/nahled_necro3.jpg
http://www.edgedesign.cz/web_payo/p_reporty/re0385.jpg
http://www.metal-underground.net/li...t_2.300x255.jpg

Nice bass he has too!

__________________

haha, that's usually the case oddly enough.

__________________

it has to be a new guy because their bass player now is right handed, he plays like a fender jazz or somthing like that

Looks more like a custom Sadowsky or Lakland, and yeah that was the second thing i did notice, is that he was left handed!

__________________

Yeah, that seems to be the bassist Necrophagist had when I saw them last week - freakishly good as you'd expect, all fingers (probably because he did a good deal of tapping), 6 string bass and as bald as a peanut.

this guy is playing necro's catalouge with his fingers?! and hes a lefty? huge.cant wait to see them at the deathfest in may. talk about taking technicality to the extreme. this should be the definitive statement to every one who claims you cant match pick speed with your fingers.
ps thanks for the tip on thumb sweeps from this discussion guys, its coming along quite nicely.

thats weird check out this vid foul body autopsy

you can see there that this bass player is right handed

Yeah, that was the old bass player.. but ive seen live Necrophagist video's from january 15th of this year.. and they have a new bassist, the guy in the pictures of one of my last posts in this thread, left handed player, very good! plays all the lines with his fingers, cant wait to see them live in bristol, if it gets confirmed, hopefully!

__________________

ahhh i see, well the lefty looks slightly more talented

Ok i saw the new morbid angel pictures www.morbidangel.com and David Vicent was using his fingers.....didnt he play with a pick when he was in the band before tucker?

Wierd...i just clicked the link at the website and the site w/the photos isnt loading. oh well, anyways, he was using fingers and i could have sworn he used to use a pick. is this true?

I fell like crap lol I used picks last night

i just cant my pinky down, my fingers are small cuz im a small kid and my pinky is hard to reach to play with four fingers, all i do all day in school is work up my speed with my three fingers and its working really well.its also funny if you watch your pinky when ur playing

__________________

Bass is meant to be fingered (not unlike bitches), that's why the strings are further apart than a guitar. I have bubbling blisters on all my fingertips from playing bass. It's fucking great .....

whats wrong with picking a bass? is it not tr00??

__________________

Why don't you play drums with a pick, while you're at it ??

exactly...
and maybe you should get some new strings dude i dont think your supposed to get "blisters"
callusses but not...blisters...

__________________

I've gotten blisters. I always get blisters before the callus forms.

__________________

The correct analogue using drums for the pick vs. fingers debate would not be drumming with a pick as opposed to with drum sticks, but drumming with your hands as opposed to with drum sticks. In which case the argument seems less clear than you present it; actually the argument works against you, as very few people would argue for the purity of hand-drumming, despite the fact that drums were invented to be played by hand. You might want to try for something else when confronted with that question in the future.

maybe you should get some elixers the only thing i've ever gotten a blister from was an upright and thats because i played a 4 hour psychobilly gig

__________________

why the hell would i want to do that? i use dont really use pikcs, but form my hand like im holding a pick and i seem to play well like that. i use finger and the pick thing. fuck that elitism shit, it gets nowhere.

__________________

ive used fingers all along.maily because ive never played the guitar picked up the bass straight away..the low end allways attracted me more.never liked the guitar anyways ... hehe

__________________

Phyll Lynet (sp.) of Thin Lizzy played with a pick and he was one hell of a player.

The analogy drawn between bass and drums (as in a drum kit) is as follows:
1) Neither are designed to be played with a pick.
2) Both sound like shit when played with a pick.

Also those blisters I was talking about I obtained from playing too hard; I was using a shitty (read: "peavey") amp. My band kept complaining that they couldn't hear me, so I picked (using fingers, obviously) the strings really fuckin hard to shut them up.

EDIT: Don't even think about telling me it's because of my eq's and shit

Strings on a bass are spaced further apart so that when the notes ring out you get a nice deep tone. Bass was not really intended to be played with the fingers. Basses,cellos, etc. were originally intended to be played w/ a bow. I think I read this on this forum. Plus the whole argument over finger v. pick is a null issue. It's like argueing over 4 v. 5 v. 6 strings, & to that effect saying bass was designed to be played as a four string instrument & if you play a 5 or more stringed bass you might as well play guitar (just using as an example I own a 5 string & I can's stand guitar).

Let's learn the definition of 'parologism' and avoid it in practice.

iron_bodom seems to have a pretty good handle on the situation.

However, electric basses are not made to be played with a bow. They were originally played with the fingers not with a plectrum

__________________

I know that e-bass wasn't designed to be played w/ a bow. However, some of the 1st bassists were former guitarists who when they made the transition brought the plectrum w/ them to the instrument (back in the '50s when the e-bass was born). Plus I can't really tell the difference between the 2 styles. Maybe it is because my amp or bass are cheapies or I'm becoming tone deaf.

well there is a huge difference between the sound of the 2 styles. I prefer the sound of finger picking, and its faster for me :P

__________________

is it a peavey?

It is some crappy little fender that came in a pack. I've been told it is a guitar amp, but I don't think it is b/c i've played my bass through an actual gtr amp and the 2 sound nothing alike. I've been saving up far an Ampeg. I can play w/ my fingers (5 yrs.) and a pick (1.5yrs.). The only real thing I dislike about pick playing is the clicking sound when your hitting the string.

You have been told it is a guitar amp?? What settings are on the amp??

__________________

playing bass through a guitar amp is lame...

__________________

If it is a "Frontman 15B", or a "Rumble" then it is a bass amp. If it is a Frontman 15R, 25R or super chorus/deluxe reverb or some shit, then it is a guitar amp. Also, if you want to play with a pick, you might want to turn down your treble and mids in order to supress that plasticy clicking sound.

There are a volume, low/mid/high range knobs, and 2 jacks. I've tried messing w/ the settings and the tone is still crappy. The only way it sounds remotely descent is by having the volume knob set on 2, and the low end at max w/ a little mid range. This is not very loud, it's hard to hear it at all, because it is a 15 watt. The main problem is as i turn the amp volume up it goes from being somewhat bassy to more and more gtr. like in sound. Hence some of my friends (that are also bassist) and I pretty much came to that conclussion, it being a gtr. amp.

i always thought that a bass would blow a guitar amp?

__________________

I think it can .... but if it's a 15 watt fender then the amp just blows period.

hah, you wouldn't be able to tell if its broken or not hahah

__________________

Correct, you can play bass a certain volume through a guitar amp, but if you crank it up too much it will blow.. not good.

__________________

15R I'm playing through a damned gtr. amp I play w/ the low maxed out. The only time the mid is slightely on is when I play w/ my fingers. Which suck b/c I'm still a few humdred short of the ampeg I'm saving for.

After two years of experience, finger style is much easier than pick for me.
If I need to play fast, then I can use three fingers (right hand), no need for a pick.

ive never used a pick coz ive never played the guitar.started off straight on a bass. fingers always

__________________

I've recently started playing with 4 fingers and does anyone have any advice other than start slow build speed, practice a lot, etc. B/c my pinky is retarded.

__________________

i use 3 fingers to play, i find my pinky only slows me down(beleive me ive tried).
As for building up speed, just sit in front of a tv and strum away at the open string when watching, and you'll notive improvement over time.

__________________

Thats pretty much the best way to go about it, have you not succeeded? keep trying, it wont happen in a couple of days, you need time, effort and patience..

__________________

When I went straight from 2 from 2 finger picking to 4 fingers, I found that it was my ring finger that was retarded, not my pinky.
Make sure you are adjusting your hand (either by shifting your wrist or curving your fingers) so that the pinky can reach the string properly when its turn to pluck comes along.
Apart from playing slow make sure you're getting equally powerful notes from each finger, and just watch alot of TV as you do this, as JesterRace said.

Or you might also take his 3 finger advice, but I figure you'd might as well learn the pinky since you're learning a new style anyway. If you had been used to 3 fingers already then it might be different.


Guitar amp: Last time I played bass through a guitar am, I found the best EQ was the exact opposite of what you described, iron_bodom.
Just the opposite of what you would expect to happen happens when you play bass in a guitar amp (or guitar in a bass amp).
Since the guitar amp is designed for an instrument with very little bass in the first place (and lots of treble), whatever sound it receives it will ADD bass to it and DECREASE the amount of treble.
Plugging a bass in means its adding bass and taking away treble from an instrument that is sending a signal that is mostly bass in the first place. To compensate, you should put the bass nob very low, the mids at medium-high, and crank the treble.
Maybe it's different for those little practise amps though .....

What's funny is a similar thing happens when you plug a guitar into a bass amp: you actually have to crank the bass to get any bass at all.
Of course either is going to sound like shit, I just thought you might want to give it a try.

__________________

I prefer four fingers I can't use a pick, using fingers seems easier now. I've been playing around 5 months and its pretty cool. My tremelos need to get better but i practice, and I'm getting a metronome.

__________________

Wise choice! it will improve your playing/timing and general rhythm by so much.

__________________

i have a metronome on the comp but i hardly use it.i know i should but i dont.

__________________

My pinky cant reach the strings it sucks

Let me take a moment to describe my technique, or lack thereof. I play nearly everything with my thumb. It just came naturally to me when I picked up the bass. Alternating, sweeping, slapping and such are all done with my thumb, and it works just fine for me. For quick octaves and string skipping, I use my index finger and thumb simultaneously, and sometimes for the G string will use the back of my index fingernail, as if holding a pick, like some have described. I've never bothered practicing a certain plucking technique or anything of the sort. Everything I do just happens. I can play finger style fairly well, but I prefer using my thumb.

I personally cannot stand pick players and think that finger style is infinitely better. The pick just makes the bass sound like a deep guitar, and that is wrong on way too many levels. Meh.

I started as a guitar player and picked up the bass two months later. I still play both regularly, and I play the guitar the same way I play bass, never with a pick. Index fingernail for chords, thumb for picking. Works for me.

On a side note, War Pigs is a damn hard song to learn.

i play with 3 fingers...dont need the 4th

__________________

I think I may have stated this....but many times I tend to use my fingers to "down stroke" the keys while playing chords, ect. It is Similar to a pick sound(although warmer) and probably a lot less accurate than if you were to pick the chords.

Does anyone else do this?

__________________

yea thats the way i play chords.but i keep alternating these days with what ive mentioned before and picking the two notes togeather.but mostly i use the down stroking thing

__________________

claypool does this, wooten often does this, I do this ... your not alone, as a matter of fact, it seems to be a preferred method

__________________

Right, I knew Claypool did it....although he also slaps incorrectly most of the time!

__________________

its not incorrect...
its just a style of his own.
im sure traditional grip was called incorrect when it was first started, now its preffered with most marching drummers

and could you really go up to claypool and tell him he's "doing it" wrong?

__________________

No, but I'd kick him in the balls and then steal all of his equipment.

__________________

he would probably do some cartoon move and pull his crotch up to his chin then inflate his fist and punch your entire body across the country

__________________

Les Claypool has such a large penis that a kick to the balls would easily be deflected. He chose bass, he claims, specifically due to cock size.

Using your fingers that way to downstroke is very common (aside from the people mentioned, you can see Cliff Burton do this on the Cliff 'em All vid), and also the way flamenco players strum (though they tend to stagger it to arpeggiate the chords, which you might want to try doing too if it sounds good on a bass). So it should be fine.

Ok, here's a question...do you guys cut your fingernails short? I do, I hate that "fingernail/picked tone" when I'm trying to pluck. It comes out more when playing fast.

__________________

Usually my nails never get long enough to be noticeable on the bass...

I just played mine yesterday, first time in almost 7 months...damn I suck at it now...

__________________

7 months! well that's why you suck! Practise that shit nigga.

__________________

cut em...
your still gonna get a bright tone cuz your nails will hit a little bit
but it wont sound like a pick

__________________

Araya dosen't always play with a pick

__________________

and you should never have a hard time remembering the basslines that YOU write

__________________

i allways cut my fingernails. i can't stand the sound i get when i'm playing fast

__________________

I agree especially on that last part.

I prefer to play with my fingers, Im used to do ti, and I can reach the speed I need for thrash/death metal, for example. I also use slap and taping techniques. I only play guitar with picks. I don't like playing bass with a pick because I feel that Im playing like a guitarrist.

David Ellefson, is not a bad bass player and he playes with a pick, but I don't know if Mustaine is responsable for some of the best bass lines he plays, I read that Mustaines composed the "Peace Sells..." intro bass riff, that is not hard to play but sounds really good(to me at least).

About Tom Araya, he used to play with fingers, but started to play with a pick on the Reign In Blood album, I think. Many bassists switched from fingers to pick, most of them also sing and/or play extreme metal.

__________________

i think Tom Araya chaged to a pick because they started playing faster stuff like the whole Reign in Blood album. on there newest album "God Hates Us All" he uses his fingers.

__________________

I keep a nail trimmer in my bass case.

I would like to try growing the nails long one day to hear what it sounds like, but the problem is that they don't grow very fast in one day .... and I'm pretty impatient with that sort of thing. See the problem is that if you want the twangy nail-hitting sound you probably want to get it on every note, not just some of the notes depending on the angle of your fingers to whatever string you are hitting. So you need to grow them pretty long, which takes weeks, months even. In the meantime, you feel stupid playing bass because sometimes you accidentally hit the string with your nail but the nails are not long enough so that you can get that sound on every note.

So, fuck that, I say. I shorten my nails every time I hear my nail hit the string, like once a week.

__________________