Alright ... Got some questions ...

Just got a new computer that runs Windows XP 64-bit Professional edition. I'm trying to step up from the shitty Line 6 Guitarport software and move to a real software-based recording solution for guitar, so I *acquired* a full version of Guitar Rig 2.

So ... I have the necessary software, I just need the hardware go-between. Native Instruments has their own device, Rig Kontrol, that they offer as a joint package with the software. The USB interface itself goes for 2-300$ ( ! ). Anyone know of something else that works with Guitar Rig 2 that costs less? Like this... Should I be fine with something like that, or something nicer like this?

or ... could I just get an adaptor and go directly into the Line In on my soundcard? I think I can.

Ey there. Yes you need a good interface for that, preferably firewire if you have a FW port to assure you won't have any latency problems that some people encounter with USB interfaces, firewire is much faster and has more consistent throughput than USB and even usb2.0.

I don't think that ART one would work for that. I have a Presonus Inspire and I use it for exactly that, guitarrig2, and it kicks ass plus it also has mic preamps and phantom power and it's Firewire! I got it for 140$ used on ebay, new they retail 180-200$. Might be a tad above what you're aiming for but trust me it's worth every penny.

http://search.ebay.com/presonus-ins...rdsreturnedZ300

If you have more money get the Presonus Firebox which is essentially the same with more inputs and outs plus midi and better mic pres. But that one is 300$.

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Hmm ... I'm thinking that my onboard sound does'nt have firewire ports, all I have is USB ( here's my motherboard ). What I tried to do earlier was just plug my guitar into the Line In and configure it in Guitar Rig 2 that way, Guitar Rig 2 is showing the input at the top as I strum the guitar strings, but its not processing the sound the way it should ( the signal sounds through the speakers as being completely dry ). When I try to mess around with the input/output configuration on the Audio Settings under File, I can make Guitar Rig 2 emit a very unpleasant buzzing sound over my speakers or I can just make the program run very slowly by increasing the sampling rate. Something tells me I should just put back a few $ for a PCI card with Firewire and then go that route? Looking at the specs on my board, what would you recommend that I do?

BTW, I think I did mention that my copy of Guitar Rig 2 is pirated. I don't think it affects anything, but I'm mentioning.

Oh wait you have a laptop? Yeah you'd need a PCI firewire card BUT it has to be the ones with the full-speed ports, that means, the ones with the full-sized Firewire ports that can actually power devices, not the really small connectors! Because if you do use that it forces you to use a converter so the connector will fit and the AC adaptor that the interface comes with because it can't get power off of ur computer's bus with that kind of cable. Which is a bad thing kind of, as the AC power does produce some unwanted hiss/noise in your recordings. Using the big firewire connectors = getting power directly from the PC.

I'm not exactly sure what the buzzing sound is due to, but ideally onboard soundcards are a horrible thing to use for real-time amp simulation/playback stuff. You definitely need an external interface.

I think these extremely basic interfaces are designed specifically for use with guitar/bass with amp simulation software:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/ik_multimedia_stealthplug.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_ucg102.htm

I have never tried them and have not a clue if they're good or not, but they're worth a look.

I guess you can't go wrong with the Line 6 Toneport UX1, Mackie/Tapco USB Link, or other similar USB 1.1 interfaces but I know someone that has the UX1 and tells me he gets some noticeable latency. *Should* be fixable by using ASIO4all but I have no clue, all I know is that firewire = instant functionality no extra PC tweaking needed.

Try to see if you can get a PCI card with full-size firewire ports and check out the Presonus Inspire or some of the firewire M-Audio interfaces in that price range.

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So ... it looks like that I need this and this or this to run Guitar Rig 2 with that motherboard. A PCI card to give me the Firewire connectivity, and some Firewire enabled interface ( There's a good number of options on that MAudio device too ) like that. Ah, cool : I'm seeing how later on down the road I could move to microphoning an amplifier and it would probably sound great.

By the way, its in a tower, not a laptop. Should I give you any more information about my setup for you to know if everything I just posted there is ideal? Thanks Soeru, you've been very informative.

Why buy a firewire interface, then a soundcard to plug into it? Better results are achieved by just buying a good quality PCI soundcard. Check out the M-audio products, they are all very solid. Did you configure the sound I/O in Guitar Rig 2 right? And also, plug the guitar into the microphone input, not the line in input (impedance and gain issues). You should get a 1/4" -> mini jack converter adapter, then plug it into the red jack on your soundcard / mobo.

Also, while buying a decent soundcard is pretty much essential for multitracking with several guitars, a bass track and some drums etc, you can still get very acceptable results with a single track recording to your onboard soundcard. Resolve the software issues first before you throw $$$ on hardware! Are you using VST or the standalone Guitar Rig app? VST is def. the way to go if you're planning on throwing in programmed drums etc. and with VST you map your own I/O of audio ports and stuff, probably easier to get it working than some half-assed "standalone" solution NI threw together three seconds before the software went shipping.

I had mine working very well into my onboard soundcard, but i have a mixer inbetween so i dunno how it will work without one. Guitar -> Mixer -> Mic input.

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Probably not. When I get off work tonight I'll let you know. I'm pretty new to trying to really understand what's going on with digital recording, so I might give you some incorrect information. Hopefully not.

I'm pretty sure that I'm using Guitar Rig 2 without VST. Because I don't see anything that says VST anywhere. All I know about NI's products is that GR2 is supposed to be badassed modeling software for guitar.

I know before when I plugged into the Line In I could get sounds from guitar rig 2, but it was delayed and sounded really "washy". I'll try the mic input tonight, and I'll post what I was doing with the configuration so you can correct me.

Its ghetto-ish, but what I'm wanting to do to make music is have the best quality DIY guitar sound I can do for cheap and write guitar riffs to machined tracks from FL 7 XXL and paste them all together in Cool Edit ( Think Joe Satriani's Engines Of Creation except metal ). Something tells me there's a better way of making music like this on the computer but I don't know what to get for it. Your input is appreciated.

You're not understanding the concept of FW recording interfaces. You don't buy an interface to plug it into another soundcard. They are soundcards with vastly superior AD converters to any normal PCI soundcard, PLUS decent quality mic/instrument/line level preamps unlike the mic/line preamps on PCI/onboard plain old soundcards, AND little to no latency when doing realtime amp simulation stuff. I used to attempt playing with GR2 and Amplitube with the plain soundcards and the thing just lagged so damned awfully, not to mention it sounds way better when you're actually using an interface with an instrument/line preamp like on my presonus.

A good PCI soundcard that will actually work well for recording will set you back more than 100$, plus you also need a decent microphone or instrument preamp to buffer your signal before going into the ins of your soundcard, like those ART Preamps or other more expensive stuff. You don't just hook up your guitar 1/4" to a RCA plug adaptor and hook it up to your soundcard, your soundcard isn't designed to take instrument level lines, you need some processing of the sound first. That's why external FW/USB boxes exist, they're all-in-1 preamps and ad/da converters(= inputs on soundcards), highly portable and easy as hell to use, plus will work with anything like Cubase, Cool Edit, GR2, and whatever you can think of.

John: Don't get that one, that one is actually just a midi interface! Look for one that has instrument and mic ins like the Presonus Inspire. And for a FW card all you need is this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16815106002

You should get a FW card either way and come out of the stone age.

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O.k., I'll do some more reading at work today and see what I'll get. I'll probably go with that card and a Presonus Inspire. Whatever sounds better than Guitarport Anyone else with input?

Hang on here - i never said you plug the recoding IF into another soundcard. The purpose of a FW recording interface is to have a portable solution you can bring around with you for recording from place to place etc. with reasonable quality at a decent price. They do not have superior AD converters to similarily priced PCI souncards Yes, they have H/W mix throughput enabling zero latency realtime monitoring. Latency when recoding multiple tracks while playing back other tracks is unknown to me.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOD1010LT It's the same $$$ as the presonus and does not require any additional hardware and does not go through a scetchy ultra-low-dollar firewire interface before it hits your recording sodtware. Audio quality is up there with RME and the likes, this is PRO quality stuff (the preamps are not Neve's but you can not tell the difference unless EVERY chain in you recording / monitoring setup is TOP NOTCH), you get hardware mixing, MIDI, top quality components in every chain, a high power SPU that does not affect CPU throughput etc. Multitrack record / playback latency can be as low as 4ms recording 10 tracks and playing back 10 at the same time.

Of course they're better suited for different people. If you want something portable (you are using a stationary PC? Why have a portable recording IF then?) to use with your laptop from and to rehearsal etc, the presonus for example is a very, very good alternative no doubt - but if you want professional no-compomise studio quality sound and the ability to record a drumkit with lots of overheads etc but not the portablility of an external solution the M-audio 1010LT is very hard to beat.

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That's another good idea ... I'm getting kind of confused. As much input as I can get is desired though --- Sometime tonight I'm going to try to understand all of this so that I'll know what to get. This may sound like an idiotic question but where --- and how --- do I plug in my guitar with that soundcard?

You're gonna need a XLR to 1/4" jack adapter I'm afraid. I'm sure it's included though. Anyway if you just want to record guitar and maybe a bass and vocals and program the drums the presonus is probably a better, simper choice.. The difference in sound quality is pretty neglible, either way it goes through A/D converters and will probably be distributed as MP3's or burnt CD's and played on a car stereo.. bye bye sound quality So the thing is - if you need a studio interface you get something like the PCI soundcard, if you need something to record your guitar you get something like the Presonus..

FWIW I've had very good results with guitar rig 2 and VST on my builtin soundcard with no percieved latency (haven't measured though, it's something like 22ms). My built-in is a SoundStorm something-something, motherboard is Abit NF-7S 2.0. Nowadays i have a Delta Audiophile 192 and a Behringer 8-channel mixer and it suits me just fine. The Behringer is actually pretty decent, it adds some very slight background noise but nothing you can't very easily gate out.. Else it has a vey neutral sound and quite a lot of gain before it loses control (no problem running SM57's which need quite a lot of gain to perform well). Have not tried it with condensers though, I'm afraid it'll suck big time. I'm aquiring a Sennheiser e609 for the cone and a Studio Projects B1 for the cab, so to say. I think it's gonna work out good.

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Ok, let me lay this all out ...

I borrowed a different hard drive, put Windows XP Home ( 32 bit ) on it, and installed Guitarport on it, it works fine as opposed to 64 bit Windows completely rejecting it, the guitarport software works fine, and I CAN use Guitar Rig 2, except that I can tell that its just not sounding the way its supposed to. The guitarport console ( software that lets you tweak some settings ) says that its running at 24-bit, 48,000 hz. The sound of Guitar Rig 2 through guitarport actually sounds a bit worse than Guitarport, there's some static-like noise and the actual quality of the sound itself does'nt seem 'right', like it should sound WAY better. I'm thinking that Guitarport can only go to 48, and if I can go 24/92 which seems to be the standard, then it'll sound right? And to do that I'd have to buy something like the soundcard Jopop described or the Presonus Soeru suggested? I'm thinking that I'll want to anyway since I hate 32 bit Windows.

Isn't a guitarport a device you plug a guitar in one end and headphones in the other, and control it via the computer? Or does it work as a soundcard too? (Line6 website doesn't really say).

Anyways i guess you will have better results with a preamp and soundcard. If you had EMG's you could run it straight without a preamp..

But I'm guessing if you use the Line6 thingie as a sound card it will sound like utter shit, it's not really meant to do that if I'm getting the Line6 website right.

Just a question: Soeru, how are the preamps on the firepod? Decent? I used my mixer as a boost on my 5150 today and it was incredible, haha.

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Uh, I don't have the Firepod, that's a 600$ interface! You're thinking of the Firebox which is 300$, I have a similar one called the Inspire also from Presonus, but 100$ cheaper. The pre's are really good, I've only used the mic pre's with my cab-simulation DI box, no real mics yet.

Guitarport is just a bare bones, stripped to the core interface to stick your guitar into to use the modeling software that Line 6 provides. It might actually work with Amplitube and possibly GR2 too.

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It does work with Guitar Rig 2, but for some reason I'm getting shitty sound with it. Refer to my post above.

I'm going to go with the Presonus anyway, since Line 6 has neglected to make drivers for 64 bit Windows ( If you have 64 bit Windows and you want to use Guitarport it won't happen anyway anyhow currently ), and after downgrading to XP Home ( 32 bit ) just to see if GR2 works with GP, with bad results, I'm willing to get a Presonus to use XP 64. 32 bit Windows sucks.

Cab sim eh? Hm I'm getting a e609 and a B1 to mic my cab and i get the feeling my Behringer mixer won't do too good. As i said i boosted my 5150 with it today and the results were interesting. Rhythm channel was pretty flabby though when the gain got turned up, but the lead remained pretty tight. Had gain in shitloads and the sound got way thicker and seemed more "3D" in a way and overall louder. Gain on 3 was just as saturated as it was on 6 without the boost, but less buzzy, more 3D and thick as hell.

Problem? The lead channel has this noise to it that sounded just like a seawind breeze or something, like regular hiss but sort of pleasing to the ears and pretty loud.. very strange. Rhythm channel didn't though, even at the same gain levels >< But i guess the behringer has fairly noisy preamps when you dial in some gain on them, i set my gain dial on 12'o clock and the fader to +10dB That's a hell lot of gain.. Shame many "guitar" mics need shitloads of gain to sound good. Good thing it can be gated out without much effort.

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don't know if anyone is interested, but the M-Audio Jamlab is on sale for $29.99 on musicians friend, and it's usually $60 (with the regular bullshit price of $80). i bought one since it was cheap enough to try. i was not too happy with the software, but the jamlab works just fine with guitar rig 2

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/prod...stem?sku=241104

EDIT: it also works perfect with amplitube 2 (just be careful with audio settings, think ASIO). i get no perceivable latency at all, and my pc is not that new. i've mostly been using it with guitar rig 2, but either way it's a lot of fun and sounds great.

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Alright ... I ended up getting a M-Audio Firewire Solo as my interface. Installed the driver to XP-64 ( had a FUN time with that ), so my computer sees the M-audio unit loud and clear. So with my guitar plugged into the M-Audio, and my speakers plugged into the line out on my RealtekHD onboard sound, I opened up Guitar Rig 2, and after messing infinitely with the audio settings I've managed to get what sounds like a cheap practice amp that sounds like ... a helicopter. Yes, I've messed with the latency ( but 90% of the time I've kept it at about 8ms, I've experimented with 2 and 50 just for the hell of it ), Input device is the M-audio, output is the Realtek. Interface is Directsound. On Multimedia I just got some very strange buzzing noises whenever I strummed the guitar. On ASIO, nothing works at all ( to the best of my memory : I don't remember if the program was showing input but no sound, I'll edit this tonight when I'm off work )

Then I remembered that I had a copy of amplitube 2 that I had never even installed. I installed the program, and I got Amplitube's version of the hellicopter.

All throughout this, I've been wondering if I should have the M-Audio set as the input device and the output device ... I don't get any sound that way, although it does show activity in the input levels ( just no sound ). Not sure ... here is a MF link to the device with pictures
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/prod...face?sku=701364

My CPU load is never high ( it hovers at around 5-8% when making sound ), I have 2 gigs of RAM, so as far as computer musclepower goes, there's no problem. Both programs gave the same symptoms, so I'm assuming that it has something to do with the way I have the software configured, the hardware connected, or what. I have been using 48 hz most of the time ( tried 44 and even 192, no change ) at 256 buffer size.

Jopop or Soeru, if you could offer your guidance I'd greatly appreciate it. Or anyone else who knows what's going on.

EDIT : I think I may have solved the problem. Will keep you posted.

That sucks. But you should run the speakers / headphones off the M-audio thingie instead of the other soundcard.

And doesn't the M-audio thingie have builtin drivers in XP? Hmm.

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Ok, I got it working. No, no built-in drivers.

And yeah, I plugged the speakers into the M-Audio, and everything is almost doing what its supposed to do. But ... the sound coming from the M-Audio is doing something off-kilter. My Realtek onboard sound card sounds WAY better, which it should'nt, and the subwoofer goes in and out as I turn the volume up and down on both the speakers and the M-Audio. The M-Audio soundcard also works intermittently.

Guitar Rig 2 sounds like shit ( The program seems to be CHOCK full of bugs ) and its at an extremely low volume compared to music, say, on Winamp. Guitar Rig 2's clipping point is probably on the same volume level with Winamp's settings at 10% volume. I've disabled the onboard sound and set Windows to handle background processes ( like ASIO ) better. Amplitube is doing something really weird : The sound on the metronome works, you can hear the hiss of the high-gain amp models, but its showing no input levels at all when I strum the guitar.

I'm at the "I JUST WANT IT TO WORK! PLEASE JUST FUCKING WORK!!! WAHHHHH!!!!" stage now. I'm very close to backing up all my music, accepting defeat and reformatting to 32-bit Windows and just use the Guitarport because it actually fucking works ( which makes me very angry since ... well, you know. ) Any suggestions?

Try asking M-audio, i hear they're good with customers.

Also, maybe you have one of those cheap firewire interfaces? Like the cheapest there was at newegg?

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Um ... yes. The one Soeru recommended actually, it costed 12 whopping smackers. I spoke with M-Audio today on the phone, and he did get everything configured so that the M-Audio was my soundcard ( So yes, their customer service is actually superb ). When I told him how much I paid for the firewire bus card, he suggested that I get a Texas Instruments one, and those range from 60-100$, undoubtedly its better quality.

That's the only thing I can see wrong with my setup hardware wise, at this point. If the Firewire Solo genuinely sounds worse than the onboard soundcard within a 60$ AM2 motherboard then no one would buy it. Think I should get a texas instrument card?

As far as soundcards go, check out newegg and their customer product reviews. I bought a really nice sound card off of there for like $20 bucks, and it worked like a charm. 7.1 surround sound, (although all I ever ran through it was 2.1, but still), and it presumably had the same chip that is used in a lot of higher end cards. Did a lot of recording using it, and it always worked like a charm, no problems ever whatsoever. As for Amplitube, I downloaded that program once, and it annoyed the hell out of me, so I got rid of it. Maybe nowadays it's better, but back then it sucked.

Actually, I just realized you're talking about a FireWire card. Don't know much about those, but still the same rule applies. Go to newegg and check out the reviews. Also, look up some audiophile type boards and ask some questions around there. Might be more people there that can help you out than here.

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I think this goes to show what a minefield computers are. I'm running a 3 year old PC with Intel Celeron and a cheap non-TI Firewire PCI card and my recordings are great so far. Running up to 12 tracks on Cubase with effects and the sound quality is great. I was expecting a bigger fight to get a good sound, considering how much crap computers usually put you through

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Hilariously enough ...


I just reformatted to 32-bit Windows, am using Guitarport, and with great results because now my computer will do 24-bit/48khz direct in recording instead of the 16-bit/44khz of before, that and its just a better onboard sound card. I'm really cooking with grease now.

Glad to hear it's working out for you man. Like I said, check out Newegg, the card I got from them was a Chaintech, and it cost me like $20 bucks. Don't know if they still carry it, cause this was a couple of years ago. It will give you great results and zero latency.

I guess the 64-bit Windows wasn't working properly. In order for your applications to work with a 64-bit operating system, they need to be applications which are optimized for such a OS and CPU. If they are not, that's where you run into a brick wall. Computers are like jigsaw puzzles. If one little piece doesn't fit quite right, it can throw the whole thing off.

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I'm looking for a simple setup to record on my pc. I've had good experiences with USB recording interfaces but the one I've been borrowing from someone for like two years is finally being asked to be returned . So my question is does anyone have experience with the line 6 toneport UX1? It seems similar to what I was already using, except maybe a bit cheaper in quality (and price). All I really need is something that records clean, I usually only do editing post, and I would pair it with a decent mic like a shure pg57 or something, as I prefer miced guitars to direct line in. Thoughts?

Oh and anyone know the cheapest place to get this stuff?

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What's your price range?

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I can't even hardly afford the ~150$ price tag of getting the mic and toneport. That's about my limit... haha

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No thoughts? Suggestions? Anything?

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I was at a local music shop because i was getting a new effect pedal and I was wondering what I needed to record from my mixer to comp but I thought the guy wasn't being honest with me because he said I needed some this fancy ass program/hardware(showed me a 499 one and said it was the "cheapest") can anyone clear things up for me?what the hell I need I fall victim to false sale pitches alot please help.

Save up. You can't get anything decent for that cheap and you don't want to buy it, then want to get serious about recording, and have to buy a new setup again.

You can get a pretty decent interface for $250 - $300 and a good mic for $80 bucks used. Check out the Presonus Firebox.

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Basically I only need something that will record some decent sounding rough drafts after we write at band practice and other little stupid shit I decide to record for fun. I looked at the Presonus Firebox, and it looks great, except they only connect through Firewire, and I only have USB. Is there another one you can recommend? I might actually be able to afford something around that price as I made a little extra money recently.

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I didn't have a firewire interface on my computer either, but I bought one for like $30. Even cheaper, I believe, you can just buy a USB adapter.

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Looking for something with direct-in for bass. Really don't know anything about bass gear but I'm looking for something a little more versatile in tones/maybe some effects. I know the new pod has guitar and bass. Haven't worked out a price range yet either so all suggestions are welcome.

Didn't read the entire topic here, but I'm thinking of buying a Line6 Toneport (UX1), especially to record my cab with a mic.
Are there better alternatives in the same price range? Just asking because I know very little about this sort of thing. Thanks.

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