ive never been a fan of pantera. the sound was just way too simple and monotone.

every pantera song i've ever seen heard i can figure out the song in minutes.
and im a terrible guitar player.

and oh so what he busted out a solo every once in a while, those never got my attention either, just a bunch of scales really.

I think kirk hammet is alot better, even though he is also extreamly overhyped.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g...16ef5c9d824.jpg
Nergal says you fail.

I never want to hear any one say that Randy Rhodes is over rated. He was so ahead of his time and there are still only a select few who are even close to the talent that he reached at such an early age.

Please tell me you're joking, so that you'll spare me the energy of having to write out a 5 paragraph essay on how you are wrong. Your statement isn't even a matter of opinion too, it just sounds silly.

why would I be joking.

this is a thread for the most over rated metal guitarists. it's a thread for oppinion, and my oppinion is that he is way more hyped then he should be.

I don't think Dime was anything near a god, but I respect his abilities. I don't know what your conception of a "horrible guitarist" is, but if you're figuring solos out easily from, let's say CFH, then I would say that you're an above average guitarist. Unless that is, you're figuring it out all wrong. And "just a bunch of scales"......Considering this is heavy metal, the use of scales as oppossed to? Finally, saying that Kirk Hammett is better than any one is, well....a sin in my view.....and I won't even explain that.

Dime is probably both incredibly important and great, and also overrated. I don't think there's any rule prohibiting you from being both overrated and truly great.

So, for example, Randy Rhoads is probably overrated because people like Requiem overstate his genuine greatness into something unassailable, which it clearly isn't. But he's still genuinely great. Of course, this tends to lead to my view that every highly-rated guitarist is overrated to some degree, which makes the act of determining which guitarists are overrated a pretty pointless exercise, however fun.

And I think the dude was saying that Dime's solos were just running up and down scales, not that his solos used notes from scales. That's giving him the benefit of the doubt, and the statement still comes out retarded. However, that he also makes it sound like the majority of Pantera songs don't have leads, my belief is that he's either talking out of his ass or only knows Reinventing the Stee, which should temper some of his claims.

I don't think guitarists like Michael Angelo, Steve Vai, Satriani and others are overatted cause the average guitar person has not even heard of them. Everyone I talk to only knows like Zakk Wylde, Jimmy Hendrix, Jimmy Page and even Dimebag. And that's really sad that Zakk and Dime (who both just wank the penatonic scale over and over-not so much Dime but Zakk) who seem to write the same in the same style over and over again get more recognition than guitarists like Vai who ,yes wank a lot, write outside the standard theory and use a wide variety of patterns and even obscure techniques on the guitar. Bringing something new to the table where as Zakk and Alexi are just rehashing the same stuff over and over again.


But whether or not the person is influencial is irrelevent, Johnny Ramone, Keith Richards were both extreemly influencial to a lot of players but were they great guitarists? No. A person can be influenced by the simplest of guitar playing to the most technical.

It comes down to whether they are overatted. Dimebag is overatted. Like Hendrix they are really milking him after his death. As a songwritter Dime was great as a guitarist well he was fairly simple and he seemed to do the same thing over and over again with his solos.

As far as Hendrix is concerned, it's the same thing. He was a great songwritter, and a great player, very soulfull. But over the years there has been better. Yes he influenced them but when I still see Hendrix voted "Greatest guitarist of all time" come on, there are probably people on the street who are better players. Eddie, Vai, Becker, Friendman, Paul Gilbert, Ralph Santola, Luke Jagar, all top Hendrix as players. Songwritting aside. Yes of course Hendrix influenced them, of course. But it would be the same as saying that Possessed are better guitar players than Deicide cause they influenced them. Well...obviously Deicide are better players. (songwritting I would disagree on but that's IMO).

There will never be greatest guitarist of all time cause there is always someone who will raise the bar.

And BTW I am a Hendrix fan.

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Well, here's the thing: Because guitarists tend to group people like Vai, Satch, and MA Batio apart from more mainstream guitarists like Dime and Zakk, and see that the latter are better known than the former, they also tend to rate the former more highly. It's fewer people doing it, but they're still giving them props for reasons that have nothing to do with their playing.

Comment about Keith Richard's laughable, as any attempt at the ancient art of weaving would surely tell you.

I'd like to know how you rank players, 'songwriting aside.' Because some of those guys can't write even an interesting solo, unless 'interesting' in the sense of 'using an unusual scale,' and if you can't do that, I, for one, don't give a shit how well you play your boring parts.

And I will definitely take Ler Lalonde over any guitarist Deicide's ever had.

I rank the actual player by seeing if they can play many different styles and are well rounded. I think it's a lot more impressive to play many different styles rather than playing the same thing over and over. I personally love Steve Vai's solos. Like For The Love Of God or Tender Surender cause they have catchy hooks.

I am more of a songwritting person tho. I'm not a huge fan of technical music unless it has some sort of feel to it or flow such as bands like Cynic or Athiest. Not just a bunch of random notes or sweeps up and down the neck. 3 of my biggest influences guitar playing wise are James Murphy, Eric Cutler and Tony Iommi. Both are great song writters and eccellent composers but there are better guitarists out there.

One guitarist who I think is seriously underatted is Mike Scaccia from Rigor Mortis. He is extreemly we rounded playing at incredible speed but still managing to write catchy riffs.

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Eh I personally like alot of metallica's older solos, the new solos sound like they are'nt even trying though.

and I still rest my case saying that Dime is way too overrated.

I never said Hendrix was the best player out there. I agree there are many players more technically and musically proficient than Hendrix, but does that make him overrated? Just because everyone who has never picked up a guitar thinks Hendrix is the greatest ever because that's all they know makes no difference to me. I couldn't care less about a non-guitarists opinion about guitarists. I am speaking within the guitar community. I doubt there are many serious guitarists out there who actually think Hendrix is the best technically. Therefore, within the guitar community, Hendrix is certainly not overrated. To the general population, maybe. Even so, his influence on just about every guitarist since keeps him from being an overrated guitar player in my opinion. Does influence make him better than those he influenced? Absolutely not, but that doesn't mean he is overrated. Some people put WAY too much value on technical skill. Look at a guy like Gilmour. Did he have amazing chops? Absolutely not. In fact, compared to his contemporaries, he was a below average technical player. Yet he was still one of the greatest ever in my opinion. The man was a genius. He had one thing going for him that so many speed-obsessed shredders miss. He understood phrasing.

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HAHAHA what a great thread! Man, opinions are like arseholes : everyones got one!!! Is there a "most underrated player thread"?

Well put Cuddly. Personally I think there should be an underatted guitarists thread. Something I shall do....

Oh and BTW Ulrichmc. Those people I where talking about were also guitarists/musicians. I wouldn't bother asking someone who doesn't even have a clue how to play.

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I realize they were guitar players. Do you really think Hendrix is overrated by serious guitar players? I think any serious player realizes that he wasn't the greatest ever, but he was still a great guitarist. The people who constantly vote him the greatest ever are not serious players. They are the wannabe punks that can't play anything other than emo. Who gives a shit what they think. Of course they're going to think Hendrix is the greatest ever. They've never heard of Vai, Becker, Friedman, MAB, Satch, etc... or at least they've never heard their music. I mean, you never see three of those guys in any Guitar World top guitarists list (unless it's strictly metal). But it isn't surprising because so few people know who they are aside from serious players (i.e. not the emo kids that make up so many of the people voting in the magazine polls).

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Zakk Wylde

People only say Kirk Hammet is overated because he is in metallica, I bet if he stayed in Exodus people would call him one of the best thrash metal guitarists. Alex Skolnick is my favourite in that genre though.

No people say Kirk is cause he almost does the same solo every song.

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Not to mention the fact that most of the good leads he ever played were written by Mustaine and/or Hetfield.

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Kirk Hammet's solos from Ride The Lightning through to And Justice For All are some of the best examples of lead playing I've heard to date and he rightly deserves great credit for his playing during this era. The "all his solos sound the same quote" can only really be applied to Hammet from Metallica onwards.

And what a surprise that the Dave Mustaine fanboys are once again claiming that everything decent ever written by Metallica is attributable to him. Anybody who knows anything about metal knows he gets just two partial writing credits on Ride The Lightning. Additionally, I don't care for much of his writing on Kill 'Em All so the best thing Metallica ever did was dump the fucker and get Kirk on board.

Also, can somebody name a lead that James Hetfield wrote other than that in Nothing Else Matters?

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Second solo in Orion.
Btw Hi John how are you?

Greets
Rob

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Hello there, Robert! I'm good, mate

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The first solo on Master of Puppets.

I don't think Laiho is over rated...I just don't think he deserves any credit after Are You Dead Yet? I still think Dime was really good too, the only reason he gets more attention than Chuck (who kicks his ass) is because he was in a band that was ,commercially, more successful. The only person I can think of who is over rated is zakk wylde.

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I agree on you with Alexi. Children of Bodom's last album was Are you Dead Yet? So why doesn't he deserve any credit after that. Their next album could be good, hopefully better than the last. Chuck is definitely under rated by those who do know of him. And the ones that do love him because he is amazing. Zakk Wylde is garbage, Randy Rhodes was better.

Yeah, I guess your right about the new Bodom album being better. I've read in an interview with the drummer the new material is thrashy and hypocricy-ish. So maybe Laiho can redeem himself!...although his solo's aren't particularly bad on Are You Dead Yet? So I guess that shouldn't have counted against him in the first place!

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Yeah, that's right up there with hiring Bob Rock to produce.

Seriously though, the best thing Metallica ever did was convince Cliff Burton to join.

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So you're saying that Kirk Hammet was just as bad an influence on Metallica as Bob Rock? Now I know you're full of shit, or at least half full; can't argue with the Cliff comment.

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lol that Bob Rock comment was a joke. Honestly I don't dislike Hammet, I just think he is very overrated. And I'm glad Metallica got rid of Mustaine, otherwise there would be no Megadeth, but I disagree that it was a smart move by James and the crew.

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It's a crying shame that Lars didn't die in that bus accident, cause Cliff wouldn't have let them do the shiT they did without him!!!

Hetfield also wrote the first solo in master of puppets (which i actually prefer to Kirk's).
I don't think Kirk Hammet is overrated at all, at least not in the 80's. His lead playing was memorable, fitted the song, and maybe he wasn't super technical but he could definitely play and wrote very good, emotionally charged solos,and developed considerably up to AJFA. As far as song writing goes i think Hetfield was just as good as Mustaine, but in a different way. Metallica, as i see it, were more epic and emotional, Megadeth more technical and "sneering" in their attitude(not a bad thing).Both are great, Hetfield is no slouch for the sorts of leads he used to do, either. I think he's a lot more versatile than what he gets credited for.
I was watching the 1991 live shit disc. Lars was surprisingly good!! Double kick a trifle unsteady, but i doubt i could do better....
As far as that whole "cliff wouldn't have let metallica be shit", well, he was into REM before he died, and was into progressing....I do not think they are changing so much for the money. They are rich already. They are obviously intelligent, and talented, guys. They have always been unafraid to progress. when they did fade to black people went "SELLOUT!!!" because it wasn't pure thrash style, but they didn't care (metallica always aspired to more epic visions than thrash, in my opinion), they did what they felt was right. By all accounts, they still do. Granted, i'm not going to say that Load and Reload were great "metallica" albums. but viewed as plain bluesy rock, they were great! they did have some of that tritone/palm mute thing in parts as well.
I think it's important to view their albums in a fresh way, not based on what they have done previously, because they change so much with each. I was not a major St Anger fan, but I respect that. I think it was in fact NOT trendy at the time. The production was terrible, the vocals were out of tune, the album was actually too heavy to be trendy (yes, it was quite heavy in my opinion). But it's important to stay current too. Granted, good music never ages, but you can't be stuck in 1986 either. I think metallica realise that .

If I sound like a fanboy, I'm only stating my opinion. I welcome your arguments to the contrary. Cheers.

I agree.
So because he enjoyed listening to something other than metal, you think he would have eventually changed Metallica's style (rather than, say, have a side project to release music of other styles)? I seriously doubt it. Also, trend-hopping and progressing are two entirely different things.I can't imagine any rich man being so greedy as to want more wealth, even at the cost of his integrity. Oh, wait...Trendy? No, though I do think this was Metallica's try at nu-metal. I agree about the terrible production and vocals, but you forgot to mention that it sounds like Lars is beating on a couple of tin garbage cans.My response to that is, well, as you said "good music never ages."So rather than stay true to one's roots, you should adapt your style to fit in to the now? Sounds like trend-hopping to me. I don't have a problem with progress. It's important to progress as musicians and as songwriters, but that should involve refining one's style, and possibly extending it, but not flat out overhauling it.

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