MetalTabs.com - your source for Metal tabs
Home Forum What's New Submit a Tab FAQ Links Contact Us Link to Us


Go Back   MetalTabs.com Forum > Musicians > Gear & Recording
User Name
Password


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 2008-10-25, 16:50
Carbonized Carbonized is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Malta, Europe.
Posts: 194
Smile Amp design: Simple vs. complex

I've been coming across various info about amp designs. In short, the info says that simple amp designing (e.g. Marshall JCM 800) makes for a better sound in general 'cause of it's simple interior design (circuitry and what not). Whereas amps which have a lot of channels, effects, reverb, etc. would have more noise in them, etc.
This is similar to when one hooks up a long chain of effects pedals and hissing/noise etc. starts to be noticed coming out from the speaker/s and the tone itself has some of it's quality taken away.

So, in essence, there seems to be a price to pay for having loads of channels on an amp.

That's about it. I'd be glad to read your opinions, thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2008-10-28, 01:40
the_bleeding's Avatar
the_bleeding the_bleeding is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,816
Send a message via MSN to the_bleeding
well... its all dependent.

If you have sub-par builders and designs, you will have noise. If you cut costs, you will have noise. If you use crappy components, you will have noise.

If you buy a good amp instead of a shit amp, you wont have noise. Example: Engl Blackmore, or a VHT pitbull UL. Both are complicated as shit, multi channel switching, super high gain, etc. But theyre both quieter than a whisper, even when gain is maxed. My marshall gets noisey as hell... at gain levels lower than engls. Its just how they're built.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahmers Fridge
In the US "fanny" is a word used to describe the ass or butt. Here in the UK "fanny" is a lady garden (vagina)
I was very bemused as a youngster watching the Golden Girls when Blanche said she was going to "spank her fanny" I had visions of a geriatric vertical bacon sandwich red and bruised from being disciplined!!!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2008-10-30, 04:41
Carbonized Carbonized is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Malta, Europe.
Posts: 194
I see, thanks.

Of course, I should have mentioned the fact that it depends on the quality of the components. Thanks for adding that.

By the way, you can't get ENGL amps over there and I can't get Mesa Boogie amps over here haha. This sucks! You need to go to the U.S. for yours and I've got to go to Italy for mine haha. To try them, of course.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2008-11-06, 23:40
Amplitude Amplitude is offline
Metalhead
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 65
Well, TBH, look at a schematic of a 5150 or Blue voodoo. Then, look at a schematic of an Uberschall or a Powerball. The 5150 and Blue Voodoo are quite a bit more complex, while the Uberschall and Powerball are more bare bones. It mainly has to do with cost. Peavey and Crate can easily use more components of lesser quality and/or voltage rating for cheaper than using fewer quality components because of the bulk that they can buy in. ENGL and Bogner will use the correct component for the job, and it will typically be a better component in general, so they can use a simpler design. Also, ENGL likes to use relays for switching, which are expensive. Crate or Peavey would instead use a slightly complex SS circuit that is much more cost effective.

Generally, you look at designs, and the cheaper ones will end up being more complex. Hell, the 5150 is designed off the SLO-100, but the 5150 is more complex, even though the SLO-100 is a $4k amp.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2008-11-07, 05:39
Carbonized Carbonized is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Malta, Europe.
Posts: 194
Thanks for your input, Amplitude.

The quality of the parts used in the circuitry is definitely something one has to keep in mind when getting a new amp.

Right now, I'm still researching on power amp saturation. Generally, people say Metal players prefer to overdrive the preamp but keep the power amp 'clean' 'cause power amp tube saturation produces 'sag' (I'm still not sure what this refers to exactly) and that is undesirable by Metal guitarists.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2008-11-07, 07:33
Amplitude Amplitude is offline
Metalhead
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbonized
Thanks for your input, Amplitude.

The quality of the parts used in the circuitry is definitely something one has to keep in mind when getting a new amp.

Right now, I'm still researching on power amp saturation. Generally, people say Metal players prefer to overdrive the preamp but keep the power amp 'clean' 'cause power amp tube saturation produces 'sag' (I'm still not sure what this refers to exactly) and that is undesirable by Metal guitarists.
Sag is a natural compression that has a special charictaristic, it sounds uniquely "tube". What is is, its when the tubes are unable to fully charge at the attack of a string. You end up with a lower output at the attack, but the tube gradually charges to full output.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2008-11-07, 12:30
Carbonized Carbonized is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Malta, Europe.
Posts: 194
Thanks again. I haven't yet experienced power amp tube saturation, but I plan on getting a THD Hotplate attenuator or something and will be able to get it.

What gear do you use yourself, if I may ask?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2008-11-07, 18:53
Amplitude Amplitude is offline
Metalhead
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbonized
Thanks again. I haven't yet experienced power amp tube saturation, but I plan on getting a THD Hotplate attenuator or something and will be able to get it.

What gear do you use yourself, if I may ask?
Right now I am actually between a few different amps. I have a Crate Blue Voodoo which I am repairing to sell, when I get around to it. My other amp is a rack setup consiting of an ADA MP-1 and a Peavey Classic 60/60. I also have various different things, EQs, Power Conditioner, Tube Screamer. Both amps I have are being sold soon though, in favor of the custom amp I am getting ready to build. It will be kind of like an ultra-hi gain Marshall (think Splawn Nitro) with a bit of an extended bass and somewhat smoother and less raw (think Uberschall). It will be very tight, in the league of ENGL or VHT. My favorite frequency is mids, so that will be abundant, although I could build it however someone would want one. Once I decide on the transformers I want from Soulinsane (Mercury Magnetics) I will get to building it.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2008-11-07, 21:09
Soulinsane's Avatar
Soulinsane Soulinsane is offline
Pirate Lawd
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hanger 18
Posts: 6,507
I agree. You can build some incredibility complicated amps and still maintain the raw musical energy if done with care and quality parts. A setup is only as good as its weakest part. I always like to make sure that weakest part is the skill of the player
__________________
Authorized Mercury Magnetics tech/dealer
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2008-11-16, 16:21
Carbonized Carbonized is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Malta, Europe.
Posts: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amplitude
Right now I am actually between a few different amps. I have a Crate Blue Voodoo which I am repairing to sell, when I get around to it. My other amp is a rack setup consiting of an ADA MP-1 and a Peavey Classic 60/60. I also have various different things, EQs, Power Conditioner, Tube Screamer. Both amps I have are being sold soon though, in favor of the custom amp I am getting ready to build. It will be kind of like an ultra-hi gain Marshall (think Splawn Nitro) with a bit of an extended bass and somewhat smoother and less raw (think Uberschall). It will be very tight, in the league of ENGL or VHT. My favorite frequency is mids, so that will be abundant, although I could build it however someone would want one. Once I decide on the transformers I want from Soulinsane (Mercury Magnetics) I will get to building it.


Oh, so you're going to build an amp by yourself? Cool! Me, I'm not ready for that yet. I imagine it will cost you a fortune?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 2008-11-16, 22:52
Amplitude Amplitude is offline
Metalhead
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbonized
Oh, so you're going to build an amp by yourself? Cool! Me, I'm not ready for that yet. I imagine it will cost you a fortune?

Not really. Around $1000 US, and that includes chassis punches and other tools.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2008-11-19, 10:39
Carbonized Carbonized is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Malta, Europe.
Posts: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amplitude
Not really. Around $1000 US, and that includes chassis punches and other tools.


Cool. Will you be getting an EQ rack mount unit?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 2008-11-19, 19:44
Amplitude Amplitude is offline
Metalhead
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbonized
Cool. Will you be getting an EQ rack mount unit?
Nah, I'm just keeping my MXR 10-band Kerry King pedal. It does its job just as well as any other EQ, and the 2 outputs might become useful if I decide to run 2 amps at once.

Last edited by Amplitude : 2009-01-10 at 15:04.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 2009-01-10, 03:29
Carbonized Carbonized is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Malta, Europe.
Posts: 194
Sorry for the late reply, Amplitude. I had a lot of e-mails to go through, including notifications for new replies such as this one.

How are you getting on with your equipment? I was thinking of getting an MXR 10-band eq pedal, but the regular one, not the Kerry King model. I'll look into the K.K. model, though. May I ask why you chose that one?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 2009-01-10, 15:02
Amplitude Amplitude is offline
Metalhead
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbonized
Sorry for the late reply, Amplitude. I had a lot of e-mails to go through, including notifications for new replies such as this one.

How are you getting on with your equipment? I was thinking of getting an MXR 10-band eq pedal, but the regular one, not the Kerry King model. I'll look into the K.K. model, though. May I ask why you chose that one?

Musicianfriend only had the KK in stock, and I figured the 2 outputs may be useful at some point in my life. The gain boost is alright, too.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 2009-01-12, 18:34
the_bleeding's Avatar
the_bleeding the_bleeding is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,816
Send a message via MSN to the_bleeding
both 10 bands are identical except for the KK having 2 outputs. I have the plain 10 band with 1 output. Does the job perfectly.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahmers Fridge
In the US "fanny" is a word used to describe the ass or butt. Here in the UK "fanny" is a lady garden (vagina)
I was very bemused as a youngster watching the Golden Girls when Blanche said she was going to "spank her fanny" I had visions of a geriatric vertical bacon sandwich red and bruised from being disciplined!!!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 2009-01-13, 23:16
Amplitude Amplitude is offline
Metalhead
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bleeding
both 10 bands are identical except for the KK having 2 outputs. I have the plain 10 band with 1 output. Does the job perfectly.
For some reason I thought only the KK one had a gain boost, but after looking it up, they both have em. Regardless, I didn't pay for it so I don't really care that their the same. I never recommended getting the KK one, for the record.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 2009-01-18, 04:16
Carbonized Carbonized is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Malta, Europe.
Posts: 194
Two outputs meaning that it can be connected to two amps or something?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 2009-01-24, 19:31
the_bleeding's Avatar
the_bleeding the_bleeding is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,816
Send a message via MSN to the_bleeding
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbonized
Two outputs meaning that it can be connected to two amps or something?


yes. Kerry's rig was guitar --> eq --> 2 different jcm 800's
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahmers Fridge
In the US "fanny" is a word used to describe the ass or butt. Here in the UK "fanny" is a lady garden (vagina)
I was very bemused as a youngster watching the Golden Girls when Blanche said she was going to "spank her fanny" I had visions of a geriatric vertical bacon sandwich red and bruised from being disciplined!!!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 2009-02-06, 15:54
Carbonized Carbonized is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Malta, Europe.
Posts: 194
Two amps, huh... I imagine it's so that they can be connected in stereo mode instead of mono? Not sure.

Angus Young of AC/DC connects to two separate (and different) amps, too, but he does it 'cause he uses one for rhythm and the other for soloing.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:38.


========

Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Disclaimer
Copyright © 2001-2009 MetalTabs.com. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.