MetalTabs.com - your source for Metal tabs
Home Forum What's New Submit a Tab FAQ Links Contact Us Link to Us


Go Back   MetalTabs.com Forum > Musicians > Music Theory
User Name
Password


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 2005-01-30, 19:39
Hate Eternal's Avatar
Hate Eternal Hate Eternal is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 131
Metric Modulation?

Can someone explain what this is? without getting too technical.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2005-01-30, 19:40
TruthDevoid's Avatar
TruthDevoid TruthDevoid is offline
Drugged Unholy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Philadelphia Area
Posts: 2,458
Modulating Metrically. simple enough? Actually I haven't a clue.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalThrashingMad
I don't know about you, but I deadlift because I strive to be the first human tree stump pulling machine


Quote:
Originally Posted by viewer_from_nihil
the song serial cocksucker changed my life


Quote:
Originally Posted by BassBehemoth
Are you going to snort cheap pharmaceutical drugs with your lizard as well?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2005-01-31, 00:18
powersofterror's Avatar
powersofterror powersofterror is offline
I am a tax on the world..
Forum Leader
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: pizza with a shit on it!
Posts: 7,994
and neither do I. Can you explain a little further?
__________________
Man, I get real sweaty after I wack my dong. Yeah, cause I headbang while I do, and I can't really "Jump" (haha ) like VanHalen in a dorm room, so I just walk back and forth....haha a couple days ago I was jumping up and down on my bed, with my pants down and my roommate came in when I wasn't looking, hahaha.


This is my band's page
http://www.myspace.com/ferocitydentontx
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2005-01-31, 06:29
Amon rA's Avatar
Amon rA Amon rA is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 472
i love google.

http://www.msu.edu/user/millett1/metricmod.htm

it means changing tempo subtly.
__________________
"The complexity of the penguins' lifestyle testifies to a Divine Creator," said one commentator on Christian Answers. "To think that natural selection or even the penguins themselves could come up with the idea to migrate miles and miles multiple times each year without their partner or their offspring is a bit insulting to my intellect. How great is our God!"
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2005-01-31, 13:35
amerok's Avatar
amerok amerok is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: nashville, TN
Posts: 302
Send a message via AIM to amerok
That url was too much to read. Basically metric modulation is when you have different time signatures alternating each measure. Say the first measure is 3/4, then the next measure is 7/8, then back to whatever.
Bands like Dream theater do this a lot. Metric modulation makes writing actual notes much easier because you dont have to break down say 3/4 common time into something that would sound like 6/8.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2005-01-31, 14:03
johnmansley's Avatar
johnmansley johnmansley is offline
Schrodinger's Cat
Forum Leader
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Liverpool, England
Posts: 5,970
Send a message via MSN to johnmansley
Metric modulation is what we have in Europe
__________________
Album of the day:

Deadhead Roses - Zastruga
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2005-01-31, 14:07
Amon rA's Avatar
Amon rA Amon rA is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by amerok
That url was too much to read. Basically metric modulation is when you have different time signatures alternating each measure. Say the first measure is 3/4, then the next measure is 7/8, then back to whatever.
Bands like Dream theater do this a lot. Metric modulation makes writing actual notes much easier because you dont have to break down say 3/4 common time into something that would sound like 6/8.


i admit, the url was quite confusing, but i am completely stumped by that.

would i be right in saying its using a riff that could have two time signatures
to go from one to the other or change tempo
ie:

you could play a steady note, and count in 4/4 (16th notes) and then keep playing the same speed, but count 4/4(triplet notes) instead.
thus speeding up the tempo?
__________________
"The complexity of the penguins' lifestyle testifies to a Divine Creator," said one commentator on Christian Answers. "To think that natural selection or even the penguins themselves could come up with the idea to migrate miles and miles multiple times each year without their partner or their offspring is a bit insulting to my intellect. How great is our God!"
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2005-01-31, 19:06
Hate Eternal's Avatar
Hate Eternal Hate Eternal is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 131
Metric modulation is the modulation of the original metre, either upwards to a faster tempo or downwards to a slower tempo, using a subdivision of the original pulse to decide the speed of the modulation. I think what this mean is that using the same tempo from the orginal meter just play triplets in the next meter or something?

Last edited by Hate Eternal : 2005-01-31 at 19:19.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2005-01-31, 19:55
Amon rA's Avatar
Amon rA Amon rA is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 472
ok, im pretty fucking drunk right now,
so i decided to give you all an example of what i think metric modulation is.
i think amerok might know what it is, but i dont understand him.
listen to this, hear the cool riff badly played, and tap the beat to it, and see what happens...

http://members.aol.com/celadoreuk/metricmodulation.mp3
__________________
"The complexity of the penguins' lifestyle testifies to a Divine Creator," said one commentator on Christian Answers. "To think that natural selection or even the penguins themselves could come up with the idea to migrate miles and miles multiple times each year without their partner or their offspring is a bit insulting to my intellect. How great is our God!"
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2005-02-05, 01:23
amerok's Avatar
amerok amerok is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: nashville, TN
Posts: 302
Send a message via AIM to amerok
alright. say you have a beat going, which never changes tempo. different measures may change time signatures. for example, say a riff is played all the way through, and it happens to be 4 measures long, like this:

| 2/4 | 1/4 | 2/4 | 1/4 |

1 2 1 1 2 1 < if you were counting it, you would say that.


that is a simple example. and in that case youd probably wanna just use 2 measures of 3/4. But if you get really complicated with it, like say youre playing the riff all the way through, which is 3 measures:

| 11/9 | 4/9 | 7/9 | < some bullshit like that would be hell. but surprizingly changing each key signature, each measure would be easier than making the key signature 22/9 right? cause then youd have to count up to 22. and imagine writing that? i cant even write it the first way.

all metric modulation is, is changing a key signature in a song. im sure there are many definitions that get all technical and sound different than my definition but thats basically it

If youre doing some techniqual riffs, definitely try using metric modulation to make it much easier to play, count, understand, simplify, and write it.

if a key signature changes during a song, i think you could say 'he modulated metrically' or 'he used metric modulation when he changed key signatures' i think thats how youd use the term anyway. this is long but hopefully it will help.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 2005-02-25, 13:17
blackjacques blackjacques is offline
New Blood
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 2
Metric modulation basics explained

Hey everybody,

Metric modulation is like a key change, but in tempo!

Basically it enolves switching between a tempo and it's related triplet meter, but you play the triplets as the new quarter notes. For example, let's say you have a song at 138 Bpm. To get the new tempo, you divide the tempo by 2 and then multiply that number by 3. In this case it equals 207 Bpm. To go the opposite way, divide by 3 first and then multiply by 2.

A very easy way to get the feel for it is to play in 4/4 at a comfortable speed such as 120 Bpm, then go to the equivalent triplet meter, which is 12/8 in this case. Applying our formula, we get 180 Bpm. That would now be the new tempo in 12/8. Then, when you're ready to up the ante, play at 180 Bpm in 4/4! Now that's a modulation. For even more kicks, have your drummer play at 120, and you play in 180! It's wacky.

Blackjacques
www.ivoryknight.com
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2005-02-28, 18:51
G_urr_A G_urr_A is offline
Supreme Metalhead
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Miasma
Posts: 694
Send a message via ICQ to G_urr_A
http://www.vai.com/LittleBlackDots/tempomental.html

Contains info on metric modulation.
__________________
seems like you got a case of stupidphobia
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 2006-05-08, 02:15
ober ober is offline
New Blood
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1
Amerok makes no sense when he mentions time signatures such as 11/9, 4/9, 7/9, or even 22/9, because such time signatures do not exist in music. Let's break down what this means. Metric, meaning the time signatue in which the music is in, and modulation is the implied transition from one time signature to the other (in this case, results in a smooth transition). In metric modulation, there is a mathematical pivot in modulating from one meter the the other. In most cases, this can be known as a subdivision of the original tempo (in some cases a polyrhythm of the original tempo).
Metric modulation example of a time signature of 4/8 in a tempo of 120 bpm: An implied modulation of a FASTER feel would be of the tempo of 150 bpm (1/3 faster than the original tempo) using the same meter of 4/8. The number of times you play each original pattern would also increase by 1/3. Metric modulation is a change of note value...from the first is made equivalent to a note value in the second.

The following mathematical formula explains how to determine the tempo before or after a metric modulation, or, alternately, how many of the associated note values will be in each measure before or after the modulation:

New Tempo/Old Tempo = Number of pivot note values in old measures/Number of pivot note values in new measures


DreamTheater does indeed use good examples of this smooth and intelligent transition. Drummer Steve Smith thoroughly explains Implied Metric Modulation in his DVD "Drumset Technique/History of the U.S. Beat". Terry Bozzio uses this, maybe Planet X. Other sources of help go to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_modulation

Last edited by ober : 2006-05-08 at 02:18.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 2006-05-08, 14:00
amerok's Avatar
amerok amerok is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: nashville, TN
Posts: 302
Send a message via AIM to amerok
i was using those weird ones to make my point but how dont they exist in music? theoretically couldnt you have any numbers you want in the time signature?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 2006-05-09, 19:24
wolfsd wolfsd is offline
New Blood
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 9
I will explain why they don't exsist simply by reminding everyone what a time signature is........the top number tells us how many beats there are in a measure...the bottom number tells us what type of note gets a count of "one". as an example, alternating bars of 11/8 & 13/8 is possible because the bottom number tells us that an eighth note counts as one beat......alternating bars of 11/9 & 13/9 are not possible because there is no ninth note.......hope this helps

steve
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 2008-02-07, 21:31
BadCheddar BadCheddar is offline
New Blood
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsd
I will explain why they don't exsist simply by reminding everyone what a time signature is........the top number tells us how many beats there are in a measure...the bottom number tells us what type of note gets a count of "one". as an example, alternating bars of 11/8 & 13/8 is possible because the bottom number tells us that an eighth note counts as one beat......alternating bars of 11/9 & 13/9 are not possible because there is no ninth note.......hope this helps

steve

Ok yes I know I just joined but somehow I ended up here and saw you talking about metric modulation, something I am very familiar with and then I saw you talking about odd denominators in time signatures, also something I am familiar with. It IS actually possible, and the way pretty much everyone has ever looked at time signatures is that the top number is the number of beats in a bar and the bottom number is the note that gets one beat. BUT there's a much MUCH simpler way of looking at it. Take a bar of 4/4 (start off simple) and we use the whole note, being the longest possible note because it is 'whole'. Now why do they call it 'whole' if the quarter in regular 4/4 gets one beat. Well because if you've noticed the whole note gets the WHOLE number of beats of the denominator. In 4/4 a whole note gets 4 beats (you get the idea, I'll stop bolding). 8/8 a whole gets 8 beats and in cut time (2/2 in case you don't know it) a whole note gets 2 beats. So let's use a common odd time signature (Yay for oximorons) with a odd denominator like 9/7. In this case the whole note gets 7 beats, the half 3.5, a quarter 1.75 and so on. Basically like Amerok said, it would be hell to play, because though nearly no one does this (no one who you could go out and buy an album of, only experimental and progressive [really over the top progressive] musicians with no names) but it is often done with drums or any instrument keeping beat in the closest even time signature (9/7, drums get 9/8). So there you have it, 9/7 can exist! Who knew! I know 1.75 beats is awkward sounding but it's just a quarter tied to a dotted eighth but if your good with it you can get some really abstract sounds. That is all, thank-you.

P.S. I know this is long ass but hey, alot to say.
P.S. I also know this is one long ass paragraph too. I'm bad for that.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 2009-03-25, 18:10
somedanceforjoy somedanceforjoy is offline
New Blood
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1
13/9 is possible, and if you disagree you are an idiot. TOOL. Thats all i have to say.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 2009-03-27, 15:44
Paddy Paddy is offline
Forum Daemon
Forum Leader
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,745
Download free OEM software, porn, cock-enhancers, designer clothes and jewellery!
Code:
www.holy-fuck-everything-is-so-cheap-i-cant-possibly-lose.com

This is an example of what constitutes an acceptable 4-year-old thread bumpage.

HA!

Besides, everyone knows that metric modulation is the process by which the Imperial Forces keep the Jedi out of government jobs by outsourcing the production of light sabres to European sweat shops, thereby removing any sway they may have had with the light sabre manufacturing workforce - which, as we all know, makes up 97.7% of the galaxy's populace. It's all there in Star Wars Episode XI: The Filibusterer Who Wouldn't get the Fuck on with it.

Last edited by Paddy : 2009-03-27 at 23:24.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:30.


========

Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Disclaimer
Copyright © 2001-2009 MetalTabs.com. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.