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  #1  
Old 2008-04-24, 20:40
Corruption Corruption is offline
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Question on Sheet Music

Hey, I'm been sein on Sheet Music a couple things I don't get:

1. What is an upstemmed guitar?
2. What does it mean if the sheet music says "Backward Lead Guitar?"

thanks,

-Corruption
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  #2  
Old 2008-04-24, 20:49
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I've never come across either of those. is it just a specific song or band that you find it with?
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  #3  
Old 2008-04-25, 12:40
Corruption Corruption is offline
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They're both in Master of Puppets by Metallica

the upstemmed guitar is on the 6th Page and the backwards lead guitar is at the 2nd coda at the end
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  #4  
Old 2008-04-25, 14:54
Deathmaster213 Deathmaster213 is offline
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I don't have the tab book, so I can't say fro sure, but I might have an explaination for the "Upstemmed guitar" one.

Quite often on a 2 guitar harmony, they will show both guitars on one stave, with the harmony above the other. The note stems may point upwards (being higher notes, they would be anyway).
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  #5  
Old 2008-04-25, 19:16
Corruption Corruption is offline
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Well the upstemmed one is where you play the highest note of the chord then down to the lowest one by one

like if it was

|-----------------------------
|---0/1/3---------------------
|-----------------------------
|-----------------------------
|-----------------------------
|-----------------------------

You'd play D then C then B as 1/3 timing of what it says

like if its a quarter note, you'd do a set of triplets

not sure bout the backwards one though
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going into an ejaculating spazz attack


I play lead guitar in a band called Elpium Eyeballs. We're workin on our first album, to be called Hookah
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  #6  
Old 2008-04-25, 19:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathmaster213
I don't have the tab book, so I can't say fro sure, but I might have an explaination for the "Upstemmed guitar" one.

Quite often on a 2 guitar harmony, they will show both guitars on one stave, with the harmony above the other. The note stems may point upwards (being higher notes, they would be anyway).

actually yea I have seen something like that in choral(sp) sheet music. theyll have like two voices in one staff the notes with stems pointing upwards will be like soprano for example then the ones pointing down will be alto or something
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no one can tell you to turn down your amp unless they're of higher skill or in your band
Why not make shit up as we go-fox
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"you suck the cat-avatar-guy doesnt"-The Doc
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  #7  
Old 2008-04-26, 06:43
Deathmaster213 Deathmaster213 is offline
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Slayer - Decade of Aggression tab book: Angel of Death page 78, the harmony on the cool riff in the middle features what I'm talking about.
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  #8  
Old 2008-04-26, 15:49
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Doesn't "backwards guitar" mean that the guitar track/riff in question was literally played backwards on the recording? The beginning of "Blackened" uses this technique, and the tab book labels it as such. If that's the case, it just means that the notes you are playing are the "forward" version of the originals.

Or is that too obvious? haha
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  #9  
Old 2008-04-26, 19:37
Corruption Corruption is offline
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huh? so like if the tab was

--------------------
----------4---------
--------1-----------
------0-------------
--------------------
--------------------
and it said backwards guitar, you'd play it like this:

--------------------
---------4---------
-----------1--------
-------------0------
--------------------
--------------------

is that right?
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going into an ejaculating spazz attack


I play lead guitar in a band called Elpium Eyeballs. We're workin on our first album, to be called Hookah
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  #10  
Old 2008-04-26, 19:56
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if thats what it is, i would say you couldnt play it. take the intro to immortal rites by morbid angel. the riff is backwards, they didnt play it backwards. they recorded it the right way then flipped it in the studio (so if you had the vinyl and played it backwards the first 10 seconds or so would sound 'normal')

i guess technically you could play the riff in reverse but theres noway to get it to sound the same and playing it forward and then flipping it
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POW MIA NEVER FORGOTTEN
no one can tell you to turn down your amp unless they're of higher skill or in your band
Why not make shit up as we go-fox
Ok. You're literate, intelligent and funny-FBS

"Calm down, Edgar back in your cage"-far beyond sane
"you suck the cat-avatar-guy doesnt"-The Doc
Now My Legacy Shall Live Forever!!
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  #11  
Old 2008-04-26, 20:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar_demon
if thats what it is, i would say you couldnt play it. take the intro to immortal rites by morbid angel. the riff is backwards, they didnt play it backwards. they recorded it the right way then flipped it in the studio (so if you had the vinyl and played it backwards the first 10 seconds or so would sound 'normal')

Yeah that's fucked up sounding man
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  #12  
Old 2008-04-27, 04:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corruption
huh? so like if the tab was

--------------------
----------4---------
--------1-----------
------0-------------
--------------------
--------------------
and it said backwards guitar, you'd play it like this:

--------------------
---------4---------
-----------1--------
-------------0------
--------------------
--------------------

is that right?

No no, you play it as it is tabbed; the "backwards guitar" note is just to inform you that the recorded guitar part was reversed in the studio, as guitar_demon mentioned. Listen to the beginning of Blackened, then play the intro backwards (use OtsTurntables or the like) and you'll see what I mean. It can be played, but it won't sound as it does on the track, in terms of the tone/attack of the notes etc.

That said, I wasn't terribly aware of any backwards guitar in Master of Puppets. Maybe at the very end, after the last E begins to fade out. Can you be more specific about the part that's labelled as "backwards" in your tab? Maybe I'm horribly wrong about this
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  #13  
Old 2008-04-27, 20:36
Corruption Corruption is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy
That said, I wasn't terribly aware of any backwards guitar in Master of Puppets. Maybe at the very end, after the last E begins to fade out. Can you be more specific about the part that's labelled as "backwards" in your tab? Maybe I'm horribly wrong about this


At the 2nd coda when it repeats Rhythm Figure 1 four times then goes "Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha"
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Originally Posted by CompelledToLacerate
going into an ejaculating spazz attack


I play lead guitar in a band called Elpium Eyeballs. We're workin on our first album, to be called Hookah
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  #14  
Old 2008-04-28, 02:23
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Yep, it's definitely "backwards guitar" as I described it before; recorded forwards, then reversed in the studio (your tab describes it in its reversed state). You can play it as tabbed, and I suppose you could use volume swells & delay on each note to simulate the sort of "alien" quality of it.
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  #15  
Old 2008-04-28, 03:02
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I don't think the intro to Blackened is backwards guitar; just a very cool harmonisation. You can tell by the way the sound intensity of each note diminishes with time rather than increases.
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  #16  
Old 2008-04-28, 04:42
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The tab book says it's backwards, but the book I have is so chock full of mistakes that I wouldn't bet my life on it. However, after listening to the track in both directions I reckon it is indeed backwards; it just sounds more "normal" backwards, you know? I made a little MP3 so you can hear the difference and decide for yourself:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=70R43YRU

Corruption, I can do the same for that part of Paster of Muppets you asked about if you like.

EDIT: Here it is:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=K3ZA5S69

Last edited by Paddy : 2008-04-28 at 04:53.
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  #17  
Old 2008-04-28, 06:30
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Yeah, I've got the AJFA tab book as well. The main riff of Blackened is the wrongest tab I've ever seen!
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  #18  
Old 2008-04-28, 07:05
Paddy Paddy is offline
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Fuck, I hear that! It's a complete balls-up from the get go:

Code:
||-----------------------|| ||-----------------------|| ||-----------------------|| ||--2--------------2-----|| ||----------3-4-5------x-|| ||----2-3-4--------------|| ||------------------------------|| ||------------------------------|| ||--------------------------3---|| ||--x-2-x-2-x-2-3-2-x-2-x-2---2-|| ||------------------------------|| ||------------------------------||

I mean, fuck me. The worst £18 I ever spent haha. Makes you kinda appreciate "amateur" tabs when this is the kind of thing official publishers are suing tab sites to protect.

Incidentally, in reading over my Justice tab book I noticed the upstemmed/downstemmed thing that the original poster was asking about. It apparently denotes two guitars on the same staff playing the same notes, or playing notes that appear on the same string. In my tab book, there is a slash separating the two guitars at every point where their notes appear on the same string, but when the notes converge there is a little caption indicating which stem (i.e. up or downstem) is to be played by which guitar, because the note only appears once on the tab (because both guitars are using the same staff).

For instance, the following is to be played on two guitars; guitar one takes the high notes, guitar two takes the low:
Code:
||--------------|| ||--------*-----|| ||--5--7--8--7--|| ||--7--9-----9--|| ||--------------|| ||--------------||

The note with the asterisk is where both guitars "meet" on the same note, but in order to display this in standard notation it requires an upstemmed/downstemmed note, to indicate that both guitars play it. I'm sure there are other scenarios where upstemmed/downstemmed notes are needed, too.

Last edited by Paddy : 2008-04-28 at 07:27.
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  #19  
Old 2008-04-28, 17:43
Corruption Corruption is offline
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The rhythm guitar in Master of Puppets doubles almost everything the Lead guitar does... except for the 2nd Coda, where lead is backwards, but rhythm isn't...

does that mean if I played the thing exact except backwards (For example, if it was E A D play D A E) and rhythm guitar played it normal, would it sound the same?
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Originally Posted by CompelledToLacerate
going into an ejaculating spazz attack


I play lead guitar in a band called Elpium Eyeballs. We're workin on our first album, to be called Hookah
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  #20  
Old 2008-04-29, 04:31
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I'm not sure I understand the question...do you mean if you play the backwards lead part forwards (i.e. the reverse of what's in your tab) would it still fit over the rhythm guitar's part? If so, I think it it would; the rhythm guitar is just playing the verse riff for the final stretch of the song (which I'm assuming is the "2nd Coda"), and it's the same key throughout. So, backwards or forwards, the lead will fit. Plus the lead part is pretty much just "incidental filler" and not really locked in with the rhythm to any great extent, so I doubt it'd matter either way.

Is that what you were asking? haha
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