MetalTabs.com - your source for Metal tabs
Home Forum What's New Submit a Tab FAQ Links Contact Us Link to Us


Go Back   MetalTabs.com Forum > Musicians > Music Theory
User Name
Password


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 2007-06-09, 10:15
Auyard Auyard is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 216
Diminished, Augmented question

so i'm reading the Guitar Grimoire and it says if you flat a major get a minor, flat a minor get a diminished, sharp a major get an augmented, sharp a perfect get an augmented, flat a perfect get a diminshed. if someone could explain this in tab that would be extremely helpful. i think i understand it but i'm hesistant to move on in case i'm wrong
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2007-06-09, 13:22
goatman's Avatar
goatman goatman is offline
Metalhead
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 57
I'm not sure about some of that.

-0-----1---2---------3------------4--------5-------6----7---
-3-----3---3---------3------------3--------3-------3----3---

sus2, min, maj, inverted fifth/sus4, dim, perfect fifth, aug, 6th

Last edited by goatman : 2007-06-09 at 13:24.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2007-06-09, 17:18
blitz906's Avatar
blitz906 blitz906 is offline
Okay.
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 4,137
Send a message via MSN to blitz906 Send a message via Yahoo to blitz906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auyard
so i'm reading the Guitar Grimoire and it says if you flat a major get a minor, flat a minor get a diminished, sharp a major get an augmented, sharp a perfect get an augmented, flat a perfect get a diminshed. if someone could explain this in tab that would be extremely helpful. i think i understand it but i'm hesistant to move on in case i'm wrong


Jesus Christ... I think I blew a good 3000 brain cells reading that
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy
Chances are there have been Irish in every corner of the world, no matter how remote. Our semen is listed in the World Health Organisation's Big Book of Pestilential Materials.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CompelledToLacerate
God, the Japanese are so weird. This HAS to be the long term effects of the atom bombs. No one is that weird on purpose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gomli
The slams in that song always kill me. First time I heard that song I was like "Too much heaviness - brain collapse" but now I could murder my family to that one
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2007-06-09, 18:38
Unanything's Avatar
Unanything Unanything is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ballater, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 1,128
Send a message via MSN to Unanything
All the perfect and major intervals relate to the tones of the major scale. Look up major scale for the notes, easy enough.

1st/ROOT - Perfect
2nd - Major
3rd - Major
4th - Perfect
5th - Perfect
6th - Major
7th - Major

The major notes have minor notes, which are all one semitone down from them. Whereas, perfects don't have minors.

When you go one semitone below perfect or minor, you get diminished, whereas if you go above major or perfect, you get augmented. Of course, you get some overlaps, but it depends on the scale/key/chord progression you are using.

For example, both the augmented 7th chord and the wholetone scale have augmented sevenths, but an augmented 7th is the same as the octave or root (shut up about temperament/meantone tunings), thus do the chord and scale have only three and four six notes, respectively. In the case of the augmented 7th chord, it is also identical to the augmented chord.

Note that the names refer more to the state of the 5th note in a chord. The names major and minor refer to the state of the 3rd because the 5th is perfect, it's like multiplying by 1, if you get it, the 1 disappears.
You may wonder why that there aren't 'minor/augmented' chord and 'major/diminished' chords, then. 'Minor/augmented', if one looks at the intervals, does in fact turn out to be major starting with its 3rd note. Major/ diminished, just, does not exist. I'm honestly puzzled there.

Hope that's helpful. Ignore the last paragraph, just some notes for the more inquisitive.
__________________


www.garageband.com/tranxnart
www.myspace.com/tranxnart
www.youtube.com/user/Tranxhead



Quote:
Originally Posted by fatdanny
Also, check out Autopsy, the vocalist sounds like hes about to eat your grandmother while fucking you in the eye. Brutal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by floridadude
I coated the end of a toothpick with Satan's blood and simply wiped it across the top of an omelet. PERFECT!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2007-06-09, 20:42
JOAMdude's Avatar
JOAMdude JOAMdude is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Candyland
Posts: 1,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz906
Jesus Christ... I think I blew a good 3000 brain cells reading that


it's not that complicated if you break it down
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2007-06-10, 23:26
davie_gravy's Avatar
davie_gravy davie_gravy is offline
Metal As Fuck!
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: LR AR
Posts: 2,680
Send a message via MSN to davie_gravy Send a message via Yahoo to davie_gravy
That book is just trying to illustrate how you can move one note in a chord to get to another chord. Here's some examples using triads.

D|----4---
A|----6---
E|----7---

E major
move one note...

D|----4---
A|----5---
E|----7---

and you get E minor
move one more note...

D|----3---
A|----5---
E|----7---

and you get E diminished
__________________
__________________
__________________
__________________
__________________
R.I.P. Dimebag
My Music

BuildTheMusic.com is your #1 FREE online guitar resource center.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2007-06-11, 10:15
Unanything's Avatar
Unanything Unanything is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ballater, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 1,128
Send a message via MSN to Unanything
Better would be to start with augmented.

Code:
Augmented D[5-----] A[6-----] E[7-----] Major D[4-----] A[6-----] E[7-----] Minor D[4-----] A[5-----] E[7-----] Diminished D[3-----] A[5-----] E[7-----]


Sometimes, on another note, diminished 7th is seen as being just diminished so it appears symmetric like its kinda 'twin', augmented. Although a chord to me is 1, 3, 5.

Code:
Diminished (7th) G[1-----] D[3-----] A[5-----] E[7-----] If you want to stretch, a more sensible placement would be something like: G[13----] D[15----] A[17----] E[19----] or, E[7-----] B[9-----] G[10----] D[12----] with inversion, or, E[11----] B[13----] G[14----] D[16----] and, B[4-----] G[5-----] D[7-----] A[9-----] without, if you stay with the same root. Although it doesn't matter because it's all the same intervals.
__________________


www.garageband.com/tranxnart
www.myspace.com/tranxnart
www.youtube.com/user/Tranxhead



Quote:
Originally Posted by fatdanny
Also, check out Autopsy, the vocalist sounds like hes about to eat your grandmother while fucking you in the eye. Brutal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by floridadude
I coated the end of a toothpick with Satan's blood and simply wiped it across the top of an omelet. PERFECT!

Last edited by Unanything : 2007-06-11 at 10:19.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2007-06-11, 12:46
Auyard Auyard is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 216
thank you that all helped. i thought it was along the lines of somehitng like that and that hit the nail on the head. makes sense now
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2007-10-22, 00:52
CompelledToLacerate's Avatar
CompelledToLacerate CompelledToLacerate is offline
FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,003
It's hard to determine exactly in guitar tab if the writer wanted the chord to be diminished, augmented, minor, or major.


A|---3---|
E|---5---|


When I look at this, I see an A minor chord. But it could also be an augmented 2nd, depending on what the writer wanted. It depends on how the notes are written. something may appear to be an augmented 3rd, but enharmonic-ally it'll sound like a perfect 4th. That's one of the limits that I've noticed in guitar tab.
__________________
DETH TOLL!!!

Keep checking for new crap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2007-10-22, 14:56
davie_gravy's Avatar
davie_gravy davie_gravy is offline
Metal As Fuck!
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: LR AR
Posts: 2,680
Send a message via MSN to davie_gravy Send a message via Yahoo to davie_gravy
Well technically that isn't a full chord (triad). That is just a diad. Can you have augmented 2nds?
__________________
__________________
__________________
__________________
__________________
R.I.P. Dimebag
My Music

BuildTheMusic.com is your #1 FREE online guitar resource center.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 2007-10-22, 16:06
aslkvbiwbegv aslkvbiwbegv is offline
Metalhead
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by davie_gravy
Can you have augmented 2nds?


Yes, as well as doubly augmented seconds.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2007-10-22, 19:39
CompelledToLacerate's Avatar
CompelledToLacerate CompelledToLacerate is offline
FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by davie_gravy
Well technically that isn't a full chord (triad). That is just a diad. Can you have augmented 2nds?

Yes. They are also called enharmonically minor 3rds, I believe.

And the quality of a triad is determined by the intervals of the two diads that make it; From the root to the 3rd, and from the 3rd to the 5th.

Major Triad;
minor 3rd
Major 3rd

Minor Triad;
M
m

Diminished Triad;
m
m

Augmented Triad
M
M
__________________
DETH TOLL!!!

Keep checking for new crap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.

Last edited by CompelledToLacerate : 2007-10-22 at 19:43.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 2007-10-22, 20:39
JOAMdude's Avatar
JOAMdude JOAMdude is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Candyland
Posts: 1,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by CompelledToLacerate
Yes. They are also called enharmonically minor 3rds, I believe.

And the quality of a triad is determined by the intervals of the two diads that make it; From the root to the 3rd, and from the 3rd to the 5th.

Major Triad;
minor 3rd
Major 3rd

Minor Triad;
M
m




Diminished Triad;
m
m

Augmented Triad
M
M


wrong
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOB_ZE_METALLEU
are you telling us that you have 4 boobs...2 small and 2 bigs
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 2007-10-22, 21:01
CompelledToLacerate's Avatar
CompelledToLacerate CompelledToLacerate is offline
FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,003
In a major triad, it is a major 3rd from the root to the 3rd and a minor 3rd from the 3rd to the 5th.

In a minor triad, it is a minor 3rd from the root to the 3rd and a major 3rd from the 3rd to the 5th.

Major;
G
E
C

Minor;
G
Eb
C
__________________
DETH TOLL!!!

Keep checking for new crap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 2007-10-22, 21:25
JOAMdude's Avatar
JOAMdude JOAMdude is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Candyland
Posts: 1,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by CompelledToLacerate
In a major triad, it is a major 3rd from the root to the 3rd and a minor 3rd from the 3rd to the 5th.

In a minor triad, it is a minor 3rd from the root to the 3rd and a major 3rd from the 3rd to the 5th.

Major;
G
E
C

Minor;
G
Eb
C



you've proved my quote.
you just got them mixed up.
no big deal
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOB_ZE_METALLEU
are you telling us that you have 4 boobs...2 small and 2 bigs
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 2007-10-22, 22:04
CompelledToLacerate's Avatar
CompelledToLacerate CompelledToLacerate is offline
FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,003
Yes it is a big deal. It's a very fucking big deal. I'm talking the whole 3 and a half inches here.
__________________
DETH TOLL!!!

Keep checking for new crap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 2007-10-23, 20:35
davie_gravy's Avatar
davie_gravy davie_gravy is offline
Metal As Fuck!
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: LR AR
Posts: 2,680
Send a message via MSN to davie_gravy Send a message via Yahoo to davie_gravy
Ha! That is cool! I never looked at all the different triad intervals as 3rds like that. That's a pretty easy reference. Killer!
__________________
__________________
__________________
__________________
__________________
R.I.P. Dimebag
My Music

BuildTheMusic.com is your #1 FREE online guitar resource center.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 16:14.


========

Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Disclaimer
Copyright © 2001-2009 MetalTabs.com. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.