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  #1  
Old 2007-06-17, 11:21
rmokkenstorm rmokkenstorm is offline
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Wich key.

Hi there,

I just stared with the theorie and i'm getting the hang of in.. (for a little bid)
I know how to calculate minor's majors melodic...

but my questions is. wich scale for wich chords?
usaly i pick E minor. but under the following chords is doesn't fit his place.. or doesn't sound like i want it to sound.

The chords are.
Em, C, Am, Dm,

and after that there wil be lot's of E and F with some G's an the end.
Wich key should i use? and wich .."type" (minor, major?)

hope you guys can help me.
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  #2  
Old 2007-06-17, 14:22
Phlack Phlack is offline
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They all seem to be within C major, so you could either just play in c major or play in the key according to each chord. Like D Dorian, A minor, E phrygian etc.

Im bad at explaining though. Maybe someone else can elaborate
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  #3  
Old 2007-06-18, 03:59
JonR JonR is offline
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Yes, every note and chord you mention is within the key of C major, and if Em is the main chord you start and end with, that means you are in E phrygian mode. (That's only a name, don't worry about that!)

But if you like E minor, but don't like some of those other chords you've got (if I understand you right), try some of these:

B7
C7
D, D7
Bm
A, A7
F#m7(b5) (= Am/F#)
Bb

These can all be used (along with some of the chords you already have) around an Em key centre. They will convey different modal or key effects (mostly brighter than E phrygian), but E can still be your overall key centre.
You don't need to identify or settle on a main mode or key, you just need to find the chords that "work", that sound like you want it to sound.

Here's a chart showing the notes and chords in various "Em" key/mode tonalities:

E phrygian = E F G A B C D E
Chords = Em F G Am Bdim C Dm

E dorian = E F# G A B D C# E
Chords = Em F#m G A(7) Bm C#dim D

E aeolian (natural minor) = E F# G A B C D E
Chords = Em F#m7b5 G Am Bm C D(7)

E harmonic minor = E F# G A B C D# E
Chords = Em F#m7b5 G Am B(7) C D#dim7

E melodic minor = E F# G A B C# D# E
Chords = Em F#m G A B7 C#dim D#dim

E locrian = E F G A Bb C D E
Chords = Em7b5 F Gm Am Bb C(7) Dm

The point here is that you can mix and match any of these chords - no need to stick to one scale or set of chords. They're all designed to fit around an Em key centre. (The Em7b5 in E locrian is not suitable as a tonic chord, but the others in that mode offer some nice dark, bluesy choices.)

Of course, it may be that (for variety) you should start with a different chord than Em! (Which would mean a whole other set of supporting chords.)
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  #4  
Old 2007-06-21, 07:12
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Unanything Unanything is offline
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Just find one that has all the notes in it, is what I would say. Or you could go all avant' on us and have them in different keys to mess up our ears.

Mithras' new album is one beautiful piece of music and the instrumental The Beacon Beckons is also beautiful, right up until about a minute when this lead in a different key comes in, it's quite painful.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatdanny
Also, check out Autopsy, the vocalist sounds like hes about to eat your grandmother while fucking you in the eye. Brutal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by floridadude
I coated the end of a toothpick with Satan's blood and simply wiped it across the top of an omelet. PERFECT!
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  #5  
Old 2007-06-22, 16:49
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Necro_Butcher Necro_Butcher is offline
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use ear, and common sense
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k13m
so i guess its kinda nice for leads but i thought it sucked ass for soloing
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  #6  
Old 2007-06-26, 14:55
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ulrichmc ulrichmc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necro_Butcher
use ear, and common sense

Exactly. If it sounds good, who gives a fuck what theory says about it.
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  #7  
Old 2007-06-26, 23:19
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Unanything Unanything is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulrichmc
Exactly. If it sounds good, who gives a fuck what theory says about it.


Just don't post in the Theory Forum from now on.

But yeah, if you want to keep on guessing for the rest of your life, please, continue one's ignorance. Even if you know what to play there, that's theory.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatdanny
Also, check out Autopsy, the vocalist sounds like hes about to eat your grandmother while fucking you in the eye. Brutal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by floridadude
I coated the end of a toothpick with Satan's blood and simply wiped it across the top of an omelet. PERFECT!

Last edited by Unanything : 2007-06-26 at 23:21.
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  #8  
Old 2007-06-29, 05:33
JonR JonR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulrichmc
Exactly. If it sounds good, who gives a fuck what theory says about it.
If it sounds good, then it will be following some theory rule or other. Theory doesn't lag too far behind what musicians invent (esp not rock musicians, who are pretty conservative in terms of their harmonic preferences).
I agree, you don't have to care, of course! But then - as Unanything says - why would you be posting in a theory forum if you didn't care, at least a little bit?
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  #9  
Old 2007-06-29, 10:30
robbcorpse robbcorpse is offline
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I don't think there is anything wrong with just coming up with ideas that work in the chord progression than reverse engineering it to figure out what you did.

I mean often you'll just play shit that plain 'ole works. Tab it out, figure out the notes, match it to a scale, see why it worked so well. Learn something new from what you did. Now you've got something new in your arsenal. And you understand it.
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  #10  
Old 2007-06-29, 11:35
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Unanything Unanything is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbcorpse
I don't think there is anything wrong with just coming up with ideas that work in the chord progression than reverse engineering it to figure out what you did.

I mean often you'll just play shit that plain 'ole works. Tab it out, figure out the notes, match it to a scale, see why it worked so well. Learn something new from what you did. Now you've got something new in your arsenal. And you understand it.


But the thing is, notes bring out the same sound each time, and theorists are simply the scientists which document this. Musicians learn the science to know what sounds give what where, so on, so forth. Some learn it on their own, some need to or do subscribe to institution. The names we give to them hold no essence, like in science, it was hippies who came up such terms as 'quark' and 'strangeness', whereas they could be called something completely different had 60's culture taken a different turn.

But any knowledge you hold of sound is musical theory.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatdanny
Also, check out Autopsy, the vocalist sounds like hes about to eat your grandmother while fucking you in the eye. Brutal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by floridadude
I coated the end of a toothpick with Satan's blood and simply wiped it across the top of an omelet. PERFECT!
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  #11  
Old 2007-06-29, 12:13
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ulrichmc ulrichmc is offline
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Actually I know and use theory all the time. My point wasn't "fuck theory and just use your ears." I simply meant that if it sounds good, it sounds good. Why go searching for some bit of theory to validate what you've written as "correct" when your ears already are telling you that it sounds right? Theory should be regarded as guidelines, not as absolute rules. So while it's very useful to have and apply knowledge of theory, your ear is your most important asset as a musician. Use it! The problem with theory is people get so caught up in it that they forget how to work outside the box, musically speaking.
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Like a drug it feeds the imagination of minds that go unparalyzed
Followers to the leaders of mass hypnotic corruption
That live their lives only to criticize
Where is the invisible line that we must draw to create individual thought?

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