MetalTabs.com - your source for Metal tabs
Home Forum What's New Submit a Tab FAQ Links Contact Us Link to Us


Go Back   MetalTabs.com Forum > MetalTabs.com > News
User Name
Password


 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread
  #61  
Old 2007-04-11, 11:18
PST 88 PST 88 is offline
Forum Daemon
Forum Leader
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,980
Beethoven, Vivaldi, and Bach are all in the public domain. It's perfectly fine to pass around transcriptions of their work without getting permission; who would you be getting it from? Just like anybody can publish a copy of a Shakespeare play, or why there are so many TV adaptations of books by long-dead writers.

Anyway, this all requires such a funny interpretation of copyright law that I don't put much stock in it. They're going to get to a point where they have to prove that illegal copies of available materials have been made and distributed for profit, and while the latter is simple (this site has ads which generate revenue), the rest is very difficult, and would necessarily make the following illegal:

'Unlicensed' cover bands (who make money playing songs without permission; of course, if this does happen it would be the best possible result of all this bullshit. Fuck cover bands)
'Unlicensed' live covers (because a calculable portion of the ticket revenue would go to the cover)
Guitar instructors teaching copyrighted songs to students without having a legal copy of its official transcription
etc.

But the real big thing for me is that I know of many cases where a lab that developed a certain drug failed to secure the rights to that drug, because they could not prove in court that their discovery would not have been made by other labs working in their usual way. They'll eventually have to prove that tabs are copies of something, and that's not going to be possible. But until that point they're going to intimidate a lot of small sites.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 2007-04-11, 11:21
USS USS is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkenelf
...first, all tabs are not from existing bandmembers...

This is just current bandmembers, for Reptile and Behind the Curtains of Night-Phantasmagoria are transcribed by Jamie Stinson (Astennu).


Perhaps NMPA is confusing us with Tabspedia stealing everything from us.
__________________
† AW †

MASKED
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 2007-04-11, 12:41
Party Time 2000 Party Time 2000 is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Where the Slime Live
Posts: 408
Well, the arrangement of notes in music cannot be copyrighted. It's like copyrighting the alphabet.

If you learn a song by ear and don't write it down, that's fine. If you teach it to someone by showing them, that's fine too, right?

What about the guitar magazines? They have tab in there all the time from professional transcribers. They still have mistakes in them. It's someone's interpretation of a song that is tabbed (with permission) to generate money and I'm assuming that royalties are in there somewhere. It's by no means "Official" tab, is it?

So, if I buy a guitarworld magazine and learn it from there, then that's fine too. If I show my friend how to play it, then that is, what? Copyright infringement?
__________________
We will use the lamb
to catch the tiger,

but we don't use the
fish to feed the pussy.

http://www.myspace.com/lordpartytime2000
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 2007-04-11, 12:54
Party Time 2000 Party Time 2000 is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Where the Slime Live
Posts: 408
Do we have to change the website name now?

From metaltabs to

metaltabsaredown?

Down with tabs? Up your ass!
__________________
We will use the lamb
to catch the tiger,

but we don't use the
fish to feed the pussy.

http://www.myspace.com/lordpartytime2000
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 2007-04-11, 13:46
tmfreak's Avatar
tmfreak tmfreak is offline
Slayer of dumb cunts
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, va
Posts: 3,622
Send a message via AIM to tmfreak
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinity
We aren't making money from tabs though, and clearly we aren't stealing it from the bands considering about 10% or less of the bands on this site actually have tab books. I've spoken to many bands I've tabbed through email etc. and they are more than happy to have me make tabs for them.



Thats bullshit. Your point can possibly relate to about half of the thousands of bands hosted on the internet. Can you imagine Vlad Tepes releasing a tab book? Birdflesh? Ulver? December Wolves? Rompeprop? Repulsion? All these bands have dedicated but small underground followings, the money put into tab books would be a complete waste, money time and effort, printing, authoring. And what about bands like Repulsion that have recently seen a surgence of tabs by fans, but are actually defunct? Is the lead singer gonna call up and go "Hey Mike, yeah, it's me, Joey, how's shit been? Yeah sorry I havn't called for 20 years, but wanna release a tab book? Yeah? YEAH? AWESOME!". And what a dumb point to make about if there are tabs what is the point of tab books. People will always buy official merch. People will always make mistakes in tabbing anothers song. If a band is searching the internerd looking for its own tabs and sees a bunch of bullshit or mistake ridden tabs it's not gonna go "Well gee man, looks like our fanbase can't play guitar anyway, we better not release a book!" but it is gonna go "Wow, look how hard they tried, lets get some official tab books happening!" And again only the bigger bands are gonna do that anyway.


I agree with that point 150% and that my intent really wasn't to say that these underground bands would all of a sudden have an outstanding market for tab books. And i see now that i didn't quite word it as well as i had hoped. I think in my original post i said something about it being completely unlikely to exist because of lack of demand. But other bands much more so. Lets say maiden, and so on. Yes they have tab books, but unless you are a "dire hard" fan, or feel like "wasting money" why would you feel the incentive to buy it?

I'm not saying in every case there will be a demand to buy tab books, but in a bunch of the more "high profile" cases it seems naive to think that internet tabs do not prevent sales of tab books.


Also thanks for bringing that point up PST i completely forgot to mention that. About websites having ads and the money that is brought in as a result of that advertisement. Whether profits are made off of "others works" or not, a website still makes money based off its advertisements which it gets from the traffic that is brought to the site for what? "Anothers work"

Regardless of whether or not we are "internet lawyers" or not its still worthy of talking about and developing the idea behind ownership and applying that to many of things that are up to debate. If anything other than providing personal growth and knowledge about various topics.

Anyways back on track.
Yeah pst i thought they could be public domain but you in a way answers exactly what i was trying to get across at the end. Ownership of the materials. What exactly is copyrighted and requires protection and what not about those works? The interpretations and ownerships of varations to those pieces. In otherwords those companies who produce the sheet music for those scores have rights to those VERSIONS that they produce. Therefore seeking royalties and alll benefits from producing it.

Should not the same apply to tabs? After further thinking about it after posting the last time, it definitely appears to me that we should remove ownership of tabs from artists. Because how it is now, thats what it is. Society and even us have basically said the artists "own" (like partytime said) the arrangements of notes, and this is the key behind the change needed. If the artists no longer have ownership over somebodys personal recording of something they have heard (a tab) then there is literally no arguement present and nothing NMPA can do about it. This doesn't apply to mp3s and cds for obvious reasons. The band put forth money and effort to produce something. The act of copying a cd and/or mp3 reproduces something that somebody else produced. If a band didn't produce the tab who says they should have any credit for the tab what so ever?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 2007-04-11, 13:50
Chris Rezendes's Avatar
Chris Rezendes Chris Rezendes is offline
Attorney at Bird Law
Forum Leader
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Alone here, with emptiness, eagles, and snow...
Posts: 3,565
Send a message via AIM to Chris Rezendes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casketcrusher
This sucks fucking cock. I say stand up to them. Let's get members from bands to talk to them. Didn't Muhhumad of Necrophagist tab stuff out and Mike Kimbal from Dying Fetus?


Muhammed has tabbed out some Necrophagist songs, and Kelly Conlon transcribing at least one Monstrosity song. I'm sure there are several others I've forgotten.

Mike Kimball used to be a very active tabber, he did a bunch of Slayer, Exodus, Cannibal Corpse, Pantera, and other bands. He's even done a couple of songs since joining Dying Fetus (one CC song, IIRC).
__________________
Trust in god, he'll give you shoes!
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 2007-04-11, 15:16
Vathek's Avatar
Vathek Vathek is offline
New Blood
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Big Rock Candy Mountains
Posts: 3
What I was trying to say is that the NMPA seems to be obsessing over – what IMO are – imaginary losses. They seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that a free product creates an artificial demand for said product – a demand that is very likely to vanish as soon as someone comes out with the brilliant idea to impose a price on it.

Yes, it’s would be naive to think that no one will ever choose to download a bunch of tabs for free instead of buying a book (especially when the tabs have been copied directly from the book ! – now that’s lame…), but it’s equally naive to think that every time someone downloads a tab off the net this person would have actually bought it had he/she been forced to choose between 1- paying for it or 2- reserve the money for something else.

I feel exactly the same way regarding P2P and songs; there is just no way I would have paid for every song/tab/book I got for free on the net, and in almost every case I simply wouldn’t have known about the artists and/or wouldn’t have cared at all about them, when now I do. Besides, I find that what I get for free I don’t use much (if at all) – I don't know for the others, but in my case I find that it tends to induce laziness. This is why I do not hesitate to buy something I’m interested in every time I judge that my money is well spent (recently the Emperor and Necrophagist tab books) and when I feel that the artist is well worth encouraging. I paid for it -> I use it; it's that simple.

(I’m also perfectly aware that we can still get tabs from other sites like Powertabs or RoG; this is just not the point - I'm not whining, I swear ! )
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 2007-04-11, 15:25
tmfreak's Avatar
tmfreak tmfreak is offline
Slayer of dumb cunts
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, va
Posts: 3,622
Send a message via AIM to tmfreak
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vathek
What I was trying to say is that the NMPA seems to be obsessing over – what IMO are – imaginary losses. They seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that a free product creates an artificial demand for said product – a demand that is very likely to vanish as soon as someone comes out with the brilliant idea to impose a price on it.

Yes, it’s would be naive to think that no one will ever choose to download a bunch of tabs for free instead of buying a book (especially when the tabs have been copied directly from the book ! – now that’s lame…), but it’s equally naive to think that every time someone downloads a tab off the net this person would have actually bought it had he/she been forced to choose between 1- paying for it or 2- reserve the money for something else.

I feel exactly the same way regarding P2P and songs; there is just no way I would have paid for every song/tab/book I got for free on the net, and in almost every case I simply wouldn’t have known about the artists and/or wouldn’t have cared at all about them, when now I do. Besides, I find that what I get for free I don’t use much (if at all) – I don't know for the others, but in my case I find that it tends to induce laziness. This is why I do not hesitate to buy something I’m interested in every time I judge that my money is well spent (recently the Emperor and Necrophagist tab books) and when I feel that the artist is well worth encouraging. I paid for it -> I use it; it's that simple.

(I’m also perfectly aware that we can still get tabs from other sites like Powertabs or RoG; this is just not the point - I'm not whining, I swear ! )


Most definitely true and its in my opinion a case of jumping on the bandwagon with anti-piracy. And as i see it all sorts of companies are jumping at "lost profits" from profit that would have by no means been as high as they proclaim. This holds true in movies, games, programs, and especially music. There is still a sizeable loss had that alternative never been created. (piracy as we know it).

This is just a classic battle of things changing and the realization of how important the internet really is. Its not "just the internet" like so many dull whitted people attempt to claim. Whether its a forum or an online store.

If anything, i think people should calm down a little and remember that generally how things should be have a way of working themselves into the way things happen.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 2007-04-11, 15:30
Darkenelf's Avatar
Darkenelf Darkenelf is offline
Supreme Metalhead
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: the cold north
Posts: 625
and what if metaltabs contact all these bands, and let those bands add the tabs to their website,

and metaltabs make links to the tabs...

I think it's quite legal that way, so metaltabs still can exist, with the permission from bands, cause it's their own site/space... and their material, but tabbed by a musician from here...
__________________
VIKING/FOLK METAL SITE
http://www.vikingblood.net/

Join the hordes!!
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 2007-04-11, 16:17
HAMMERSMASHEDFACE's Avatar
HAMMERSMASHEDFACE HAMMERSMASHEDFACE is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: DM WORLD
Posts: 187
Send a message via AIM to HAMMERSMASHEDFACE Send a message via MSN to HAMMERSMASHEDFACE
this is bull cc has a link to metaltabs on their site so i don't know why these people can make decisions for us all we are doing is trying to learn songs i don't understand how that is copyrited and shit
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinity
anything to point out their hypocrisy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinity
He's calling you a faggot piece of shit because you are young and unintelligent, and most of all, you are a boring, stereotyopical, close minded metal head. Please don't pretend to understand anything PST says. Please leave the forum now.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 2007-04-11, 17:54
Sycophant's Avatar
Sycophant Sycophant is offline
Supreme Metalhead
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Netherworlds Of The Mind
Posts: 685
Send a message via AIM to Sycophant
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pr0az
Correct... most of the people bitching and crying about the tabs being down have under 50 post...i mean shit there are a hell of alot more tabs sites to go too. Hopefully everything will work out for us here without any trouble however.


I'm not a lawyer on the internet or real life, so sorry if I came off as one. My last post was me trying to reason with the current situation; it sucks having put so many hours of work in tabbing the songs I did only to find out now that they are down due to some vague ill-fitting "legality" issues. I certainly hope everything works out man, if there's anything that we can do to help, let us know.

Last edited by Sycophant : 2007-04-11 at 17:58.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 2007-04-11, 18:07
tmfreak's Avatar
tmfreak tmfreak is offline
Slayer of dumb cunts
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, va
Posts: 3,622
Send a message via AIM to tmfreak
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sycophant
I'm not a lawyer on the internet or real life, so sorry if I came off as one. My last post was me trying to reason with the current situation; it sucks having put so many hours of work in tabbing the songs I did only to find out now that they are down due to some vague ill-fitting "legality" issues. I certainly hope everything works out man, if there's anything that we can do to help, let us know.


Ain't that a bitch? You worked hard producing something and you don't even own the rights to that product.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 2007-04-11, 19:11
Pr0az's Avatar
Pr0az Pr0az is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmfreak
Ain't that a bitch? You worked hard producing something and you don't even own the rights to that product.


your an asshole sometimes..he was merely sharing his sorrowful state. I still love you tho .
__________________
“Remember to live, eat, sleep and breathe music for the mind, play from your heart and never be swayed by the current trends.” ~Rusty Cooley
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 2007-04-11, 19:14
JOAMdude's Avatar
JOAMdude JOAMdude is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Candyland
Posts: 1,542
how can they officially prove that the songs are the songs that we are tabbing?
Because the tabs aren't absolutely Official. and technically speaking those names could just be...... i dunno

this was poorly worded but i hope you all understand what im getting at
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 2007-04-11, 19:19
Pr0az's Avatar
Pr0az Pr0az is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOAMdude
how can they officially prove that the songs are the songs that we are tabbing?
Because the tabs aren't absolutely Official. and technically speaking those names could just be...... i dunno

this was poorly worded but i hope you all understand what im getting at


maybe because we have uh a section in which we list the bands name...then that section drops into another section in which it list the bands cds and under that we have the song names, and beside it we have that tab up for download if its available.
__________________
“Remember to live, eat, sleep and breathe music for the mind, play from your heart and never be swayed by the current trends.” ~Rusty Cooley
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 2007-04-11, 19:19
tmfreak's Avatar
tmfreak tmfreak is offline
Slayer of dumb cunts
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, va
Posts: 3,622
Send a message via AIM to tmfreak
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pr0az
your an asshole sometimes..he was merely sharing his sorrowful state. I still love you tho .

How am i an asshole? I was completely feeling his plight as well as everybody else that has put time an effort to creating tablatures by ear and the NMPA and others claiming they have no rights them. Thats complete bullshit. It's utter ridiculous that you can't produce something "based off of" something else and not have the rights to your own production.

And JOAM you're about half right.

And proaz thats not the point. I pointed that out to you last night and your "warez website." Just because you have it listed as one thing doesn't make it the truth nor credible in any sense of the word. What about those shitty tabs that you come across that are not even remotely right? Shoudl these people be fined and thrown in jail for spreading this around?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 2007-04-11, 20:25
Pr0az's Avatar
Pr0az Pr0az is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmfreak
How am i an asshole?


haha i took what you said the wrong way man my bad, i thought you were being a smart ass lmao...


Anyway ok let me play internet lawyer since i'll be a lawyer a couple of years from now here it goes:

Copyright - Copyright is a set of exclusive rights regulating the use of a particular expression of an idea or information. At its most general, it is literally "the right to copy" an original creation. In most cases, these rights are of limited duration. The symbol for copyright is ©, and in some jurisdictions may alternatively be written as either (c) or (C).

Also by reading this piece of information it may expand your brain a little to the reality of copyright Right Here :
10 Myths About Copyright this information is correct.

Also read this is you still don't feel refreshed enough on the information already given. Intellectual Property Law

:::::::::::::::
As you can see "particular expression"(Wikki, Copyright)...from this what comes to mind about an expression? Lets see painting, songs, and o yea someones guitar work. A lot of individuals thoughts process's proclaim, "Hey anyone can make that up its our instrument, and we tabbed it by ear". Well it doesn't work that way especially considering that the bands name, their albums, and their songs are listed on the website. Even though you tabbed it out "by ear" you still ripped the idea off the bands copyrighted song. Therefore infringing upon a copyright that exist in our commodity of a world.

There is away around this(half ass way). There are three rules in which you can infringe upon a copyright with the law on your side. However, two in particular stand out in this situation, "The Amount and substantiality of the portion used."(Radcliffe, Fair Use). You can use small riffs as an example to show individuals how a certain piece goes . Take the following for example:

Tuning Drop B
|-------------|
|-------------|
|-------------|
|----000-421-|
|----000-421-|
|----000-421-|
Riff 1 - Machine Head "The Blood The Sweat The Tears"
Machine Head © 1999


This example of Machine Heads song is perfectly legal if your using it without getting an economic gain from it.(Money if your an idiot) Therefore the courts would find the above "FAIR USE" of someone else's copyright.


The other rule is "Must not incur and economic loss"(my old law book), this rule is a bit tricky considering how the music industry is, this could either work with them or against them. First off this rule will more and likely work for them considering their filthy fucking rich and can higher lawyers better than Johnny Cochran and hell if he got O.J off where fucked. A lot of individuals go "All bands don't have tab books". Still what if the music industry released them in the future? That could be definitely used as a defense in any trail, if the case made it that far. It's a two sided sword for one the band doesn't have any tab books; but then the music industry would just go, "Hey where releasing them". Guess what tho even with this little piece of information they still hold the copyright to the song.


I don't support the shit don't get me wrong. I mean without the free tabs on the internet i doubt i would have ever picked up a guitar. Especially considering the location i live in, bum fucking Egypt where you can get a Tim McGraw tab book before Pantera. If you really don't like it say fuck it and call your congressman in your state, if you live in the U.S. that is. Congress makes the laws enough people call, and guess what you have congress men pushing for a law to protect tablature.(and no way in hell enough people would call)
__________________
“Remember to live, eat, sleep and breathe music for the mind, play from your heart and never be swayed by the current trends.” ~Rusty Cooley

Last edited by Pr0az : 2007-04-11 at 20:45.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 2007-04-11, 20:38
Pr0az's Avatar
Pr0az Pr0az is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by PST 88
Beethoven, Vivaldi, and Bach are all in the public domain. It's perfectly fine to pass around transcriptions of their work without getting permission; who would you be getting it from? Just like anybody can publish a copy of a Shakespeare play, or why there are so many TV adaptations of books by long-dead writers.


Ok during these period Pst with Beethoven, Vivaldi, and Bach there were no copyright laws. Back during those times it was actually considered praise if someone stole your music and so forth and used it in one of their pieces. Therefore being so old and no laws existing at the time its perfectly legal, and besides who in hell would the copyrighted work belong to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PST 88
But the real big thing for me is that I know of many cases where a lab that developed a certain drug failed to secure the rights to that drug, because they could not prove in court that their discovery would not have been made by other labs working in their usual way. They'll eventually have to prove that tabs are copies of something, and that's not going to be possible. But until that point they're going to intimidate a lot of small sites.


Its a really different situation. These guys have not failed to get copyright of their work. With the situation you listed it seems to be a company failure for not securing the patent for their hard intellectual work. I mean how can such a discovery be proven that it wasn't mechanically, and intellectually feasible to get the same results in another lab just as good? Thats impossible considering most labs involved in medicine are up to date and have it least decent financing, and commercial support from business.
__________________
“Remember to live, eat, sleep and breathe music for the mind, play from your heart and never be swayed by the current trends.” ~Rusty Cooley
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 2007-04-11, 20:55
JOAMdude's Avatar
JOAMdude JOAMdude is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Candyland
Posts: 1,542
you know how next to the riffs given, there is a lttle x6 or something to signify repetition, since noone actually writes it all out?
is that a loop hole, since we're not writing out the songs, merely portions of them?
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 2007-04-11, 21:15
Mystic Mystic is offline
New Blood
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Def
I'de like to see what UG does, I've been a mod there for years and Eugeny (the owner) will definetly take it up.
Let's first see what happens there. Does anyone know of any record of previous legal battles between tab websites and these guys?

These guys are like organised crime. And organisation of rich fucks afraid to lose a bit of money on their copyrighted songs. Just look at their personal profiles, what a bunch of wankers.


Yes I do, Taborama.com got shut down but it had ALOT more tabs, and ALLLOOOOT bigger forum, all the tabo members where making there own tab sites and forums, but everyone just kinda got bored, and after a while, everyone just kinda gave up ya know? thats why me and a few others from taborama came to this site, but now this ones down? I mean come the fuck on.
__________________
[html]http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d196/saspinall/Another.jpg[/html]
Reply With Quote


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 21:24.


========

Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Disclaimer
Copyright © 2001-2009 MetalTabs.com. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.