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  #21  
Old 2007-03-12, 19:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CompelledToLacerate
Exactly. So instead of wasting time trying to prevent such disasters from happening, we should really be preparing for them. And if we die out, it's only because we weren't strong enough.

The weak must die out to make room for those more superior.


Yeah, but I don't think the idea of preventing things like volcanos or tsunamis, etc. ever really stood as a consideration for very long. The way I see it, why not look at all sides of situations like this? Is overpopulation not but another threat to our existence as a species? Why not welcome with open arms a few volcanos, tsunamis, tornadoes, and other natural disasters to do as they will? (...as if we had any choice to begin with) A gift from our dear earth to prolong the human with natural population control. And sure, like you said, let natural selection take its course.
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Last edited by Me himself : 2007-03-12 at 19:55.
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  #22  
Old 2007-03-12, 19:47
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natural selection has pretty much tookin a different course in our future...especially here in America. Its not now who is more tuff but who owns the "Most Cash"...
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  #23  
Old 2007-03-12, 20:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pr0az
natural selection has pretty much tookin a different course in our future...especially here in America. Its not now who is more tuff but who owns the "Most Cash"...


Its widely known americas at least initial ability to be so successful is due to the unrestricted resources and no "natural enemies."

Also belphegor79 i think comparing dinosaurs to us is fundamentally flawed in almost every single way, and it seems a lil naive to think that just because climate destroyed the dinosaurs that it will happen to us. In my opinion.
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  #24  
Old 2007-03-12, 20:21
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natural selection quit when the "social contract" came into play. however, there is still natural selection from a societal standpoint (SEE DARFUR/NATIVE AMERICANS).

who knows? maybe WALT KELLY is just a fuckin masochist freak who likes handcuffs and furry gerbils.
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  #25  
Old 2007-03-12, 20:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Me himself
Yeah, but I don't think the idea of preventing things like volcanos or tsunamis, etc. ever really stood as a consideration for very long. The way I see it, why not look at all sides of situations like this? Is overpopulation not but another threat to our existence as a species? Why not welcome with open arms a few volcanos, tsunamis, tornadoes, and other natural disasters to do as they will? (...as if we had any choice to begin with) A gift from our dear earth to prolong the human with natural population control. And sure, like you said, let natural selection take its course.

Exactly. The reason we don't "welcome with open arms" the many natural disasters this Earth provides is because of our need to survive. See a tree beginning to fall towards us; we jump out of the way. See a tornado in the distance; get to a basement. When most people hear how much Global Warming is going to affect our weather, their need for survival kicks in and what do we do? We make hybrid cars, we recycle, we do whatever we can to "save the world," despite the fact that this Global Warming isn't all caused by us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmfreak
Also belphegor79 i think comparing dinosaurs to us is fundamentally flawed in almost every single way, and it seems a lil naive to think that just because climate destroyed the dinosaurs that it will happen to us. In my opinion.

Extreme climate changes like those caused by a meteor crashing into the Earth can and did kill a dominant species like the dinosaurs. If a similar catastrophe happened to us and we survived, that just means that we are still strong enough to live and that there is no need to make room for something stronger.
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Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
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  #26  
Old 2007-03-13, 05:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belphegor79
Alright, unless you're talking about your father which would make it a fact, is it really necessary to come in calling someone gay, just because you feel differently about something? I didn't state my opinion as fact, but obviously I happen to think my opinion has a good chance of being correct or else I wouldn't have an opinion. No we can't know any of this shit for sure, we can only make educated guesses.

Oh, yeah of course it matters what you believe. Your opinion is no less important than mine. Thanks for your time, jewbag.

LoLz DaD iNsUlTs. Yes it necessary, but I don't necessary feel differently about the issue. I didn't state my views, I just stated the flaws of your first post. If you don't think your post:
"We will kill ourselves by man-made weaponry before we ever come close to changing the temperature of the planet. And before you give me the shit about "oh, well the temp of the planet has risen 1 degree in the last five years", just be hush for a minute. Do you really not believe that earth cycle changes can have a much more profound impact on weather than our use of aqua net?"

...is stated as fact then you have a problem. There are no "I think" 's or anything similar. You're saying "we will kill ourselves..." and then you're saying you're only making an educated guesses?


And no, I was saying what I believe doesn't matter since I have basically no knowledge on the subject. You asked the question "Do you really believe...". Belief is different than fact. Beliefs are subjective, not objective, which is what we want. The question you asked is dumb anyway. "Do you really not believe that earth cycle changes can have a much more profound impact on weather than our use of aqua net?" Do you know how the fucking Earth works? Just because we're currently supposedly in a heat-age doesn't mean shit as we basically have no experience with how the Earth works technically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTL
Extreme climate changes like those caused by a meteor crashing into the Earth can and did kill a dominant species like the dinosaurs. If a similar catastrophe happened to us and we survived, that just means that we are still strong enough to live and that there is no need to make room for something stronger.

Lol I disagree with this. This might mean we're stronger than the dinosaurs, but it's not like a meteor (or possibly a few) hitting the Earth is the strongest catastrophe possible.

Now, you're not saying that exactly, but your view is odd (imo). So the dinosaurs died, but if we survived, it proves that we're stronger than the dinosaurs and don't need to make preparations for something (ourselves to be) stronger? Is this because our fate lies in mother nature's hands and if she wants she could kill us all off but this is a strong enough temporary proof? Is that kinda what you're saying? Got me confused.
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  #27  
Old 2007-03-13, 09:09
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Very well, change everything I post to begin with the words "I believe" then because opinions are all we really have anyway. Thanks for analyzing my words so closely. I feel important now.

Your point about the lack of experience we have with the earth is basically what I was thinking of when I started in on the whole man-made global warming thing anyway. Al Gore's view is just as skewed and spun the same way people that Matt Drudge's seems to be when he makes statements hinting that this cold winter is somehow evidence that global warming doesn't exist. How does he know?
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  #28  
Old 2007-03-13, 11:57
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0vjtW8hKnE

A little bit of George Carlin's take on it.
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  #29  
Old 2007-03-13, 12:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problematic
Do you know how the fucking Earth works? Just because we're currently supposedly in a heat-age doesn't mean shit as we basically have no experience with how the Earth works technically.


I agreed with you up until this point. Your last sentence is extremely confusing.

Do you mean:
A. We don't know how the earth works or has worked over the years?
or B. We haven't been "alive and around" to "experience" climatic changes?

Response if its A. Thats probably the most naive assumption ever, not to mention a huge trivialization of the amount of knowledge we've gathered about the earth and its processes. Especially in the field of geology which has a multitude of substational evidence for climatic changes.

Response if its B. So what? What bearing does this have on any arguement what so ever?
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  #30  
Old 2007-03-13, 14:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problematic
Lol I disagree with this. This might mean we're stronger than the dinosaurs, but it's not like a meteor (or possibly a few) hitting the Earth is the strongest catastrophe possible.

Now, you're not saying that exactly, but your view is odd (imo). So the dinosaurs died, but if we survived, it proves that we're stronger than the dinosaurs and don't need to make preparations for something (ourselves to be) stronger? Is this because our fate lies in mother nature's hands and if she wants she could kill us all off but this is a strong enough temporary proof? Is that kinda what you're saying? Got me confused.

That's kind of what I'm saying. If we prove to be strong enough to survive such extreme conditions, then we have earned the right to exist. If not, then we must be killed off to make room for a more advanced and stronger species. "It's clearance day on EARTH! EVERYTHING MUST GO!"

Life is a test. You pass if you're strong or you fail if you're weak.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
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  #31  
Old 2007-03-13, 15:08
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Except everybody fails. Why is it that unlaid losers who spend the bulk of their time on the internet, completely immobile, always believe in the most extreme versions of survival of the fittest?

By the way, what could be more trivial than quibbling about the specific way we'll kill ourselves?
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  #32  
Old 2007-03-13, 16:20
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Our failure and downfall is another one's rise to power.

Think about it; This world has undergone 6 mass extinctions, and everytime something has survived to dominate the Earth. Why? They were strong enough to survive whatever killed off everything else. The same thing will happen to us, and after we're gone, someone better will come along and make this place an even better world to live in, until they, too are wiped out and another species rises to power, and this cycle will most likey continue until something somes along that is an actual threat to the planet itself, such as the galaxy Andromeda (sp?) heading towards us.

And dude, just because "unlaid losers" are the ones saying these things, does it make it any less or more true? If a murderer says murder is wrong, is it a lie?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
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  #33  
Old 2007-03-13, 19:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CompelledToLacerate

And dude, just because "unlaid losers" are the ones saying these things, does it make it any less or more true? If a murderer says murder is wrong, is it a lie?


Hell look at seinfeld the episode where george can't have sex for like a month and he becomes a genius. Uh oh he may have been onto something haha.
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Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...
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  #34  
Old 2007-03-13, 20:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmfreak
Hell look at seinfeld the episode where george can't have sex for like a month and he becomes a genius. Uh oh he may have been onto something haha.

Yeah, but George wasn't a virgin.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
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  #35  
Old 2007-03-13, 23:07
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The fact that the people who would be killed off immediately in a real 'survival of the fittest' contest always pretend like it's the absolute law of the land does make it less true, yes. Or, more precisely, the fact that such people exist does. The correct analogy would be a murderer denying that murders occur and such a thing as a 'murderer' exists.

'Better' or 'worse' is a dumb value judgment to make when it comes to what survives a catastrophe. The whole revolutionary thing about evolution, that made people hate it so much, is that it's not teleological: there's no progression towards higher and higher species. There's just random shit changing at random, surviving based on whatever pressures happen to be in place.
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  #36  
Old 2007-03-13, 23:08
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  #37  
Old 2007-03-13, 23:09
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Hey, a reasonable answer to the original question.
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  #38  
Old 2007-03-13, 23:14
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i didnt even read the rest of this thread hahahaha , i figured everyone would skip the obvious one. hard to write a paper on such a barebones interpretation though
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  #39  
Old 2007-03-14, 00:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmfreak
I agreed with you up until this point. Your last sentence is extremely confusing.

Do you mean:
A. We don't know how the earth works or has worked over the years?
or B. We haven't been "alive and around" to "experience" climatic changes?

Response if its A. Thats probably the most naive assumption ever, not to mention a huge trivialization of the amount of knowledge we've gathered about the earth and its processes. Especially in the field of geology which has a multitude of substational evidence for climatic changes.

Response if its B. So what? What bearing does this have on any arguement what so ever?

Kinda both pretty much. The amount of data gathered may be a lot, but it is only for a short period of time. We don't know how the Earth works over thousands of years. I'm no geologist, but the 'substantial evidence' is only concerned with about... 200? or so years? (since detailed, 'modern' recordings began). The climate may fluctuate unpredictably (which it pretty much does) and that evidence may simply be temporary changes and nothing long term at all.

The B. response... We haven't been around to experience the changes, and this has a bearing to Belphegors
"and before you give me the shit about "oh, well the temp of the planet has risen 1 degree in the last five years", just be hush for a minute. Do you really not believe that earth cycle changes can have a much more profound impact on weather than our use of aqua net?"
Yet he's talking about Earth cycle changes like the Sport.
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  #40  
Old 2007-03-14, 06:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problematic
Kinda both pretty much. The amount of data gathered may be a lot, but it is only for a short period of time. We don't know how the Earth works over thousands of years. I'm no geologist, but the 'substantial evidence' is only concerned with about... 200? or so years? (since detailed, 'modern' recordings began). The climate may fluctuate unpredictably (which it pretty much does) and that evidence may simply be temporary changes and nothing long term at all.

The B. response... We haven't been around to experience the changes, and this has a bearing to Belphegors
"and before you give me the shit about "oh, well the temp of the planet has risen 1 degree in the last five years", just be hush for a minute. Do you really not believe that earth cycle changes can have a much more profound impact on weather than our use of aqua net?"
Yet he's talking about Earth cycle changes like the Sport.


Not even close man. I recommend taking a basic physical geology class. you'd be amazed at the information gathered, and its just an intro class. We have extremely solid evidence towards a little over 3.5 billion years. When you start getting close to 4 billion it begins to get hazy because of crust that was reheated again and again in the predicted early stages of the earth. This is called the Hadean eon which goes back to about 4.5 billion years.

In regards to weather and climate we have more evidence than you can possibly fathom over the years. Evidence of glacier weathering, reheated elements, areas that originally contained flowing water or ice and all sorts of other things.

Hell we even have dated the shifts in the electromagnetic poles of the planet via cooled magma containing magnetic materials and their alignment across the globe.

I definitely recommend taking a class or picking up a geology book.

200 years? PFFF. You could pick up random rocks dated well beyond 200 years if you wanted to. Hell if you wanted to do some digging you could easily find sand/silt/mud stone containing fossils of organisms millions of years old.
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Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...

Last edited by tmfreak : 2007-03-14 at 06:20.
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