MetalTabs.com - your source for Metal tabs
Home Forum What's New Submit a Tab FAQ Links Contact Us Link to Us


Go Back   MetalTabs.com Forum > Musicians > Gear & Recording
User Name
Password


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average.
  #1  
Old 2007-01-18, 21:27
underaserpentsun's Avatar
underaserpentsun underaserpentsun is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: usa, north carolina
Posts: 107
Crate Blue Voodoo 120w Tube Choices..

As some of you already know my Blue Voodoo 120H (old blue model) is lacking in volume and gain and tone.. clean sounds nice though. I can sit right in front of it with full volume and a 4x12 cab and its not that loud so I'm going to try some new tubes. I've never done this before, this is my first tube amp. Which tubes are preamp tubes and which are the power tubes? Should I change them all or just the pre's? Which brand should I get? I want the clearest, heaviest gain possible with this amp. After I sort out the tubes I'll be running a 4x12 cab with Celestion V30's or Hellatones or a 2x12 cab with Eminence Swamp Things. Not sure which yet. Reccomendations on tube/speaker combinations are welcome. I currently use guitars with EMG 85 bridge pups and SD JB bridge pups.

Can I bias this amp myself with a relatively cheap biasing device? I hear they produce these with a cold bias and its best to turn it up for high gain stuff. How much do shops usually charge to do this? Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2007-01-18, 21:37
sixsicsix's Avatar
sixsicsix sixsicsix is offline
6 lvl 80's sucka.
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Tallahassee Florida
Posts: 2,483
Send a message via AIM to sixsicsix
get svetlana tubes or groove tubes.
the bigger ones in the back are your power tubes.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy
I have no real friends, so I have to make up my own memories:

http://hosting01.hotchyx.com/adult-...pad_and_pat.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2007-01-18, 21:42
tmfreak's Avatar
tmfreak tmfreak is offline
Slayer of dumb cunts
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, va
Posts: 3,622
Send a message via AIM to tmfreak
Crate blue voodoo amps other than the 300 are self biasing amps.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2007-01-18, 21:53
underaserpentsun's Avatar
underaserpentsun underaserpentsun is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: usa, north carolina
Posts: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsicsix
get svetlana tubes or groove tubes.
the bigger ones in the back are your power tubes.


Bigger ones are power tubes, k thanks. I'd like to know what people think I should get specifically for pre and power tubes, also I was thinking JJ's. Groove tubes are whats in there now so I don't know if I want to get more of those..

Last edited by underaserpentsun : 2007-01-18 at 22:17.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2007-01-18, 21:56
arvina's Avatar
arvina arvina is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: brazoria,texas(south of houston)
Posts: 1,077
Send a message via MSN to arvina
they are not self biasing they are fixed bias. they can handle any standard el34 or 6l6. i reccomend jj tubes in the power and sovtek in the pre.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by xdislexicx
friends don't let friends play krank.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Def
nah man, nah, I had an itchy ballsack!


forget wall of marshalls look at this wall of engls!
http://www.engl-amps.com/pics/newsp..._stevemorse.jpg

www.tdiclub.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2007-01-19, 00:39
the_bleeding's Avatar
the_bleeding the_bleeding is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,816
Send a message via MSN to the_bleeding
if you want more volume, pop in some 6l6's (theyre 30 watts instead of 25 like el34's)... SED winged "c"'s are the bomb, almost nonexistant microphonics, lots of harmonics, and super clear. I'm not sure about el34's though, my amp only takes 6l6's...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahmers Fridge
In the US "fanny" is a word used to describe the ass or butt. Here in the UK "fanny" is a lady garden (vagina)
I was very bemused as a youngster watching the Golden Girls when Blanche said she was going to "spank her fanny" I had visions of a geriatric vertical bacon sandwich red and bruised from being disciplined!!!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2007-01-19, 01:09
Valtiel's Avatar
Valtiel Valtiel is offline
Supreme Metalhead
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: West Coast
Posts: 839
Send a message via AIM to Valtiel Send a message via MSN to Valtiel
I second that, Winged C's are probably the best production 6L6 made right now. I would avoid Groove Tubes though, never really had a good experience and there are far better alternatives. You cant go wrong with JJ's for the pre, the Sovtek LPS' are a good choice as well.

EDIT: In case you bought the amp used, you might wat to check and make sure that all the pre's are 12AX7's. If a 12AU7 slipped in there somehow that would seriously cut down your gain and volume.
__________________
"So often our hands get caught up in ruts of muscle memory. 'Muscle memory' is an accurate term. We get used to doing certain things, without even being aware of them. This ultimately not only shapes and therefore limits our technique, it also shapes what we compose, what we write. We end up thinking still unknowingly trapped in that box." -Adam Nitti

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bleeding
buy a stick of graphite (art stores) and rub it into your nut
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2007-01-19, 03:46
underaserpentsun's Avatar
underaserpentsun underaserpentsun is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: usa, north carolina
Posts: 107
Thanks for the info guys. I was reading at www.eurotubes.com and when talking about blue voodoo amps the owner said..

"These are one of my least favorite amps. I remember years ago when the first one came in for tubes. I fired it up and played the amp and I thought wow, these tubes must have really been hammered on, so with delusions of grandeur and great expectations, I pulled the sovtek power tubes and chinese pre's, biased up a quad of the JJ 6L6GC's to about 40mA per tube, stuffed in some good preamp tubes and let it rip! At first listen I was floored... There was no difference in tone what so ever... The clean was still sterol and mediocre at best and the drive tone was just as thin as it was before. I threw some of my best NOS pre's at it and there was no real difference. I tried a quad of EL34's and it only proceeded to get thinner sounding."

Well, that's got me kind of scared. Dont want to throw $100 or more on tubes when it wont make it much better. Anyone here swap tubes in a blue voodoo and get good results?

Last edited by underaserpentsun : 2007-01-19 at 03:50.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2007-01-19, 03:57
Soeru's Avatar
Soeru Soeru is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Land of Dust
Posts: 3,551
6L6GC's have more lowend and balls than your average EL34. They come stock in Engl Fireballs/Powerballs as well as Peavey 5150's and XXX's. Get JJ/Tesla's though, because some of the cheaper 6l6's sound a bit thin with excess treble, JJ's are more rounded and have tons of warm midrange and plenty of gain..
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by far_beyond_sane

(Did you know In Flames had a 2005 album called "Come Clarity"? How prophetic. I think they're trying to tell us all their sperm are dead.)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2007-01-19, 09:55
Jopop's Avatar
Jopop Jopop is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Norway
Posts: 398
JJ 6L6's are what i would associate with a crunchy hardrock type tone. They have decent low end, very prominent mids and are dark and smooth in the top end. They cut through really well and don't mud up. Very "thick" and punchy sound. Very fast attack.

Now the SED "Winged C" (=C=) 6L6 type - really deep, huge and tight bottom end, little more relaxed in the mids and somewhat more sparkle in the top. Never ever harsh, fluid sustain, notes lead into one another. They cut good, never go muddy and the harmonics are incredible. Very punchy More headroom than most other 6L6's, a little louder, very nice break-up.

If i played death metal tuned D or lower I'd go with the SED. I think they work better for a tight and focused rhythm tone in that genre, and they are incredible for fluid, smooth leads as well. JJ has the edge on leads for me though, a little looser and not as deep in the bottom, very prominent midrange, less top (very round lead tone). SED is probably the most versatile.

However, you can't really go wrong with either one, the sound difference is actually not that big as most descriptions would have you believe, rather, they're pretty subtle and if you're good with EQ and presence / depth controls you'll have a really hard time telling the difference.

For the preamp i would use JJ ECC83's, and if that is a little too dark for you I'd might get a Sino (same as Mesa, Ruby etc, chinese type) or EH in the very first stage (the tube closest to the input jack, also called "V1" as they're a little brighter (chinese the brightest, EH a little less). JJ ECC83's are very good tubes, strong low end, nice brown mids and a little sparke up top without going harsh (more lower mids than high mids makes it sound a little darker than most). Great "liquid" sustain.

Anyway here's some links that may / may not be interesting:

http://www.thetubestore.com/6l6templeton.html
http://www.thetubestore.com/6l6costello.html
http://www.tubedepot.com/6l6reviews.html
http://www.tube-town.de/info/doc/tt-tubemap.pdf ("Extreme" metal here is more like a thin black metal type sound AFAIK).
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 2007-01-19, 10:05
Soeru's Avatar
Soeru Soeru is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Land of Dust
Posts: 3,551
Also give 5881's a shot(they're interchangeable with 6l6's), they're a common choice with people who demand tons of gain and clarity.

Btw if swapping powertubes doesn't change the tone substantially on the Blue Voodoo it's because it's self biasing, so naturally it will run the powertube bias a bit "colder" than most other amps. Amps that need to run the tube bias "hotter" to sound good will undoubtedly need a bias every time you swap powertubes(ie: most Marshalls), but amps that have a fixed or automatic bias will take powertubes without the need for taking it to a tech, BUT will not sound substantially different with different powertubes.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by far_beyond_sane

(Did you know In Flames had a 2005 album called "Come Clarity"? How prophetic. I think they're trying to tell us all their sperm are dead.)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2007-01-20, 22:43
underaserpentsun's Avatar
underaserpentsun underaserpentsun is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: usa, north carolina
Posts: 107
So I took my amp to a amp tech today and told him I wanted JJ 6L6GC's and JJ ECC83's. He showed me some tubes that look like JJ's and have those model numbers but say Groove... I said I didn't want Groove but he assured me they were JJ's just rebadged as Grooves because Groove is only a rebadging comany and that they don't actually make tubes. Is he bullshitting me?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 2007-01-20, 23:06
underaserpentsun's Avatar
underaserpentsun underaserpentsun is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: usa, north carolina
Posts: 107
One more question.. Are JJ ECC803's better than JJ ECC83's? Anyone tried them?

From the tubedepot website..
"The new JJ/Tesla ECC803s is a hi-gain 12AX7 that has a spiral wound filament to reduce noise and hum. The construction is different from the JJ ECC83 in that the plates are more conventional, but have a special heat dissipating fin that serves to improve efficiency and gain. If you want that great JJ tone in a hi-gain package, then these are for you."

Also, on the tube depot website when u order tubes you have the options of high-gain, matching, balanced triodes, matched and balanced triodes, low noise and microphonics.. all for extra money. Should I order any of these options? I think I'm gonna get tubes from tubedepot rather than from the local amp guy because I know for sure they will be JJ's and they cost less.

Last edited by underaserpentsun : 2007-01-20 at 23:54.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 2007-01-21, 03:32
the_bleeding's Avatar
the_bleeding the_bleeding is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,816
Send a message via MSN to the_bleeding
i wanna make some corrections.

the 5150 takes 6550's

5881 is british for 6l6 (just like ecc83 is british for 12ax7, and 'valve' is british for 'tube')

if you want more balls in that puppeh, bias the 6l6's to 50 ma. =)

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahmers Fridge
In the US "fanny" is a word used to describe the ass or butt. Here in the UK "fanny" is a lady garden (vagina)
I was very bemused as a youngster watching the Golden Girls when Blanche said she was going to "spank her fanny" I had visions of a geriatric vertical bacon sandwich red and bruised from being disciplined!!!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 2007-01-21, 10:33
Jopop's Avatar
Jopop Jopop is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Norway
Posts: 398
Yes, groove tubes relabel JJ's. What GT does is buy huge piles of tubes, test the tubes, and throw out the bad ones. They also sell other 6L6's, make SURE you get the GT-6L6-S if you buy groove tubes.

You want one preamp tube to be "balanced triodes". This is the tube that's closest to the power tubes (it's called a phase inverter). Plus, you want one "low noise and microphonics" for the tube closest to the input jack (this will kill most unwanted noise). For the other preamp tubes you can just order standard without any options.

You want matched power tubes too, else they'll bias up quite diffrently. Matching ensures they won't differ too much in bias current draw.

Last edited by Jopop : 2007-01-21 at 10:36.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 2007-01-21, 11:08
Soeru's Avatar
Soeru Soeru is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Land of Dust
Posts: 3,551
I thought the Blue Voodoo's used 6L6GC's not S's? Because the GC's are the ones JJ/Tesla make(I have a pair of em).
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by far_beyond_sane

(Did you know In Flames had a 2005 album called "Come Clarity"? How prophetic. I think they're trying to tell us all their sperm are dead.)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 2007-01-21, 11:40
Valtiel's Avatar
Valtiel Valtiel is offline
Supreme Metalhead
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: West Coast
Posts: 839
Send a message via AIM to Valtiel Send a message via MSN to Valtiel
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bleeding
i wanna make some corrections.

the 5150 takes 6550's

5881 is british for 6l6 (just like ecc83 is british for 12ax7, and 'valve' is british for 'tube')

if you want more balls in that puppeh, bias the 6l6's to 50 ma. =)



A few things here. First, 5881's should, in most cases, NOT be used as a substitution for 6L6's. They are much lower power and would noot work well in an amp designed for 6L6's. The other is 50ma is a little much. The hotter you bias an amp, the looser it gets and the colder you bias an amp, the tighter it gets, so you need to find a happy medium.
__________________
"So often our hands get caught up in ruts of muscle memory. 'Muscle memory' is an accurate term. We get used to doing certain things, without even being aware of them. This ultimately not only shapes and therefore limits our technique, it also shapes what we compose, what we write. We end up thinking still unknowingly trapped in that box." -Adam Nitti

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bleeding
buy a stick of graphite (art stores) and rub it into your nut

Last edited by Valtiel : 2007-01-21 at 11:45.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 2007-01-21, 11:40
the_bleeding's Avatar
the_bleeding the_bleeding is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,816
Send a message via MSN to the_bleeding
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jopop

You want matched power tubes too, else they'll bias up quite diffrently. Matching ensures they won't differ too much in bias current draw.


matched tubes = sweet clean signal
slightly unmatched tubes = distortion.

Trust me, you dont NEED to match your tubes, sure its nice, but thats what they've been doing since they invented the tube amp to get the CLEANEST sound possible. If you keep them slightly unmatched, you'll get your poweramp to breakup faster, and some cool harmonic content popping up here and there. Mind you, dont go off and get two entirely different rated powertubes and throw them in expecting your amp to come through it unscathed. Keep their ratings close, but not the same (unless you're tubing up a fender twin reverb to have the loudest clean ever possible without micing )

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahmers Fridge
In the US "fanny" is a word used to describe the ass or butt. Here in the UK "fanny" is a lady garden (vagina)
I was very bemused as a youngster watching the Golden Girls when Blanche said she was going to "spank her fanny" I had visions of a geriatric vertical bacon sandwich red and bruised from being disciplined!!!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 2007-01-21, 12:24
Soeru's Avatar
Soeru Soeru is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Land of Dust
Posts: 3,551
If you don't match the tubes and fail to bias an amp properly, you're tubes won't last for shit. Improperly biased tubes will be eaten away a lot faster due to the irregular voltage draw they're being submitted to.

Marshall reccomends a 90-90 setting for their 100 watters, look at the instructional biasing video at www.eurotubes.com . The guy suggests even 90-90 is a bit too hot, he suggests 85-85 for a JCM2000TSL. 40-40 or 45-45 is ideal in dual powertube amps like combos and 50W heads and such.

Actually Valtiel, I've read on many sites that 5881's have more output than the regular 6L6GC. You're the only one I've heard saying the contrary. :?:
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by far_beyond_sane

(Did you know In Flames had a 2005 album called "Come Clarity"? How prophetic. I think they're trying to tell us all their sperm are dead.)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 2007-01-21, 14:54
underaserpentsun's Avatar
underaserpentsun underaserpentsun is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: usa, north carolina
Posts: 107
Here's what I'm getting. But have a few more q's..

(4)Matched quad of JJ 6L6GC's
2 JJ EC803's/High-Gain 12ax7 Standards
1 JJ EC803's/High-Gain 12ax7 with Balanced Triodes (for phase inverter slot)
1 JJ EC803's/High-Gain 12ax7 with Low Noise and Microphonics (for tube closest to input jack)

Bias the 6L6's to 45mA?
Bias the ECC803's to _____?

I think I want a loose sound because I played a Peavey XXX and really liked it with the loose knob on! On tight and middle it did not sound as good to me.

Last edited by underaserpentsun : 2007-01-21 at 15:25.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 15:22.


========

Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Disclaimer
Copyright © 2001-2009 MetalTabs.com. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.