MetalTabs.com - your source for Metal tabs
Home Forum What's New Submit a Tab FAQ Links Contact Us Link to Us


Go Back   MetalTabs.com Forum > Musicians > Music Theory
User Name
Password


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 2006-11-15, 02:42
imelijah imelijah is offline
New Blood
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7
soloing over death metal riffs/rhythms

I'm incredibly curious about how to properly do a shreding solo over that wierd ass black metal evil dissonant kind of riff
i.e E5 and then Bb5
or like:
------3s4-3s4------------------3s2-3s4
2222-1s2-1s2-2222-4s5-3-2222-1s4-1s2-2222-----8(p)
0000--------- 0000-2s3-1-0000--------- 0000-6s7

or something. that kind of metal. I want to know how to write a solo over it without compromising note choice. something evil but still melodic in its own way.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2006-11-15, 07:13
USS USS is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 178
You can take a look at the chords being played there. For example:

Rhythm Guitar plays:
E5 | Bb5 | A5 | F5 | (sounds pretty Satanic and is written in a Satanic scale)
Then you can play an open E minor, Bb major, G minor, F major, or you can play some melody that starts with a note in the chord played by the Rhythm Guitar. Just give it a try.
In the example, you can play something like:
E.GBE^.G | Bb~~..AG | A..Bb.A.G | F...E.D. |
........ | ........ | ......... | ........ |

The dots have no meaning (they are just spaces) the ~ is vibrato and ^ is bent.
(it is difficult to get a beautiful sound when you use a diminished fifth in the scale, like E-Bb)
__________________
AW

MASKED
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2006-11-15, 10:10
k13m's Avatar
k13m k13m is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: vlissingen, the Netherlands
Posts: 2,680
Send a message via MSN to k13m
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS
You can take a look at the chords being played there. For example:

Rhythm Guitar plays:
E5 | Bb5 | A5 | F5 | (sounds pretty Satanic and is written in a Satanic scale)
Then you can play an open E minor, Bb major, G minor, F major, or you can play some melody that starts with a note in the chord played by the Rhythm Guitar. Just give it a try.
In the example, you can play something like:
E.GBE^.G | Bb~~..AG | A..Bb.A.G | F...E.D. |
........ | ........ | ......... | ........ |

The dots have no meaning (they are just spaces) the ~ is vibrato and ^ is bent.
(it is difficult to get a beautiful sound when you use a diminished fifth in the scale, like E-Bb)
and what would that satanic scale be??
__________________

< no wonder hes mad!!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2006-11-15, 11:14
davie_gravy's Avatar
davie_gravy davie_gravy is offline
Metal As Fuck!
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: LR AR
Posts: 2,680
Send a message via MSN to davie_gravy Send a message via Yahoo to davie_gravy
All you have to do is figure what the chords are and find a scale that contains these notes. Those scales will give you a solid harmonic choice of notes. It's the adding of passing tones and tones outside the scale that will really add color. If the progression was E5 then Bb5. I would use every minor scale in the world and when the Bb5 (b5th in relation to E) chord came around, I would alter the notes I was hitting to reflect a Bb7 diminished arpeggio or play Bb Locrain mode or even continue to play E minor but put emphasis on the flattened 5th. Learn to follow the chord.
__________________
__________________
__________________
__________________
__________________
R.I.P. Dimebag
My Music

BuildTheMusic.com is your #1 FREE online guitar resource center.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2006-11-15, 12:21
imelijah imelijah is offline
New Blood
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7
I know how to follow chords when the chord changes are kinda slow(1-2 beats+ each), but I'm asking about how to follow those really fast death metal riffs that dont follow any scale(full of chromatics and b5s and all that wierd shit. like that example I tabbed earlier, but In a high tempo)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2006-11-15, 14:42
k13m's Avatar
k13m k13m is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: vlissingen, the Netherlands
Posts: 2,680
Send a message via MSN to k13m
Quote:
Originally Posted by imelijah
I'm incredibly curious about how to properly do a shreding solo over that wierd ass black metal evil dissonant kind of riff
i.e E5 and then Bb5
or like:
------3s4-3s4------------------3s2-3s4
2222-1s2-1s2-2222-4s5-3-2222-1s4-1s2-2222-----8(p)
0000--------- 0000-2s3-1-0000--------- 0000-6s7

or something. that kind of metal. I want to know how to write a solo over it without compromising note choice. something evil but still melodic in its own way.
pretty easy, just look at the root notes.

------1-2-1-2------------------1-4-1-2-----------8--
0000---------0000-2-3-1-0000----------0000-6-7----

notes from riff.............|scale that could be used
-------------------- ------------------2-4-5----
---------1-(2)-4-8-- --------1-(2)-4-5----------
0-1-2-3------------- -0-2-3--------------------

this is harmonic minor scale, starting from the (2) fret

though the 1 and the 8(p) notes dont match the scale, you probaly could still play the whoel scale, and if it doesnt sound right, just play a noets in that spot that does sound right, but i think if that riff is fast that it wont be realy noticable.


i know bands that solo over riffs like this with only 1 scale in 1 key, an they make it work, so you should be able to aswell i guess.

765-654-543-432-765-654-543-432--



dno if this all makes any sence to ya, im a bad explainer, but i know this should work cuz ive seen many others do it like this.
__________________

< no wonder hes mad!!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2006-11-15, 15:05
davie_gravy's Avatar
davie_gravy davie_gravy is offline
Metal As Fuck!
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: LR AR
Posts: 2,680
Send a message via MSN to davie_gravy Send a message via Yahoo to davie_gravy
Quote:
Originally Posted by imelijah
I know how to follow chords when the chord changes are kinda slow(1-2 beats+ each), but I'm asking about how to follow those really fast death metal riffs that dont follow any scale(full of chromatics and b5s and all that wierd shit. like that example I tabbed earlier, but In a high tempo)


The same applies... just practice.
__________________
__________________
__________________
__________________
__________________
R.I.P. Dimebag
My Music

BuildTheMusic.com is your #1 FREE online guitar resource center.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2006-11-16, 12:14
corroded's Avatar
corroded corroded is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the putrefying road in the nineteenth extremity
Posts: 1,309
Send a message via MSN to corroded
...or...do what kerry king does :P
__________________
I, Himself - An asshole's gotta do what an asshole's gotta do!!!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2006-11-16, 12:21
USS USS is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by k13m
and what would that satanic scale be??

The satanic scale is (from b to b in non-German theory):
b c d e f g a b
The distance b/f is a diminished fifth, which was the satanic interval in the Middle Ages because it was such a bad dischord. So this is the satanic scale.
__________________
AW

MASKED
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2006-11-16, 12:34
USS USS is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 178
But playing an E5, then an A#5 and then a B5 (yes, it is this way and not with a Bb5 and a B, because that would be too far out of the scale) has this shape on the E minor scale:
e f# g a# b c d(#) e
with the a# as an ornament of the b and with the d# as a possible leading note (leading to the e), both to make the melody abit sharper. All this is in the intro of Metal Heart (Accept and cover from Dimmu Borgir):
b...a#.g.f#.e.....f#.g..b.b.a#.a#/b\a#.g.f#.e.......
f#.a.g.f#.e.d#.e.f#.g.e..b.b.b.a#.g.e.f#.......
__________________
AW

MASKED
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 2006-11-16, 13:58
Unanything's Avatar
Unanything Unanything is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ballater, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 1,128
Send a message via MSN to Unanything
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS
The satanic scale is (from b to b in non-German theory):
b c d e f g a b
The distance b/f is a diminished fifth, which was the satanic interval in the Middle Ages because it was such a bad dischord. So this is the satanic scale.


Locrian mode you mean? Hahaha...
__________________


www.garageband.com/tranxnart
www.myspace.com/tranxnart
www.youtube.com/user/Tranxhead



Quote:
Originally Posted by fatdanny
Also, check out Autopsy, the vocalist sounds like hes about to eat your grandmother while fucking you in the eye. Brutal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by floridadude
I coated the end of a toothpick with Satan's blood and simply wiped it across the top of an omelet. PERFECT!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2006-11-16, 21:22
imelijah imelijah is offline
New Blood
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7
thanks you guys. do any of you know any really good none modal solos that I should analyze?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 2006-11-17, 06:57
k13m's Avatar
k13m k13m is offline
Post-whore
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: vlissingen, the Netherlands
Posts: 2,680
Send a message via MSN to k13m
Quote:
Originally Posted by imelijah
thanks you guys. do any of you know any really good none modal solos that I should analyze?
not me realy, al solos i know are either scale, or based on a scale with a few notes outside the scale to match the backingriff.

xept for slayer solos maybe??, all theis solos ive heard seem like randoms stuff to me.
__________________

< no wonder hes mad!!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 2006-11-20, 05:38
USS USS is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 178
I think even Slayer makes tonal solos.
__________________
AW

MASKED
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 2006-11-20, 05:41
USS USS is offline
Senior Metalhead
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unanything
Locrian mode you mean? Hahaha...

I guess that is the official name for it. But the dim-5 remayns the satanic interval.
__________________
AW

MASKED
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 2006-11-20, 07:52
JonR JonR is offline
Metalhead
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by imelijah
thanks you guys. do any of you know any really good none modal solos that I should analyze?
The vast majority of solos in rock are non-modal. (To apply the term correctly )
Analysing solos should always be done with regard to the key of the tune first, and the individual chords second - because sometimes the chords require the key scale to be changed. Usually this is a matter of adding chromatic notes (outside the scale), or changing to another key scale, not of applying modes.
You can sometimes use modal terminology to describe what happens as a scale interacts with a chord. But that doesn't mean the soloist thought that way, or that it helps you to think that way.
(Modal language is not always a waste of time, but is less useful or instructive than many people imagine.)

It's easier to specify some solos that ARE modal (and worth listening to/analysing for that reason):
Dorian mode: solos in "Light My Fire" and "Purple Haze"; also a lot of Santana Stuff ("Oye Como Va" being the archetypal dorian groove).

(IMO, Hendrix was inspired to try Dorian after listening to Light My Fire. It's not his finest moment, as his usual flawless ear deserts him... An object lesson in the dangers of applying a borrowed theoretical concept instead of trusting your ear, maybe...?)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 2006-11-21, 03:58
johnmansley's Avatar
johnmansley johnmansley is offline
Schrodinger's Cat
Forum Leader
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Liverpool, England
Posts: 5,970
Send a message via MSN to johnmansley
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonR
(IMO, Hendrix was inspired to try Dorian after listening to Light My Fire. It's not his finest moment, as his usual flawless ear deserts him... An object lesson in the dangers of applying a borrowed theoretical concept instead of trusting your ear, maybe...?)


It's a strange solo in many ways but I quite like the jarring, dissonant quality to it - very distinctive.
__________________
Album of the day:

Deadhead Roses - Zastruga
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:05.


========

Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Disclaimer
Copyright © 2001-2009 MetalTabs.com. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.