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  #41  
Old 2006-10-02, 16:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmfreak
This is a dumb idea too. he could have just as easily went in with a giant knife and done much worse. Or better YET. He have a gun illegally, and nobody have the ability to stop him even if there was a chance.

That was a bad argument for gun control to. Bans on guns doesn't stop violence with guns. Here is a good example. Ban on murdering doesn't stop murdering as with this, and just about every other case. thats pretty simple logic to me.



that was dumb to tmfreak...because we dont need a big knife, but illegal weapon....but you're right for the rest
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  #42  
Old 2006-10-02, 16:56
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hmm, the only reason this is more intriguing than any other school shooting is that the dude had some kind of other motive
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  #43  
Old 2006-10-02, 17:10
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Originally Posted by L,B'XXX
Nah, I blame Perry Como and Neil Sedaka.


after seeing those names, even i want to invade some school and start shooting.
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  #44  
Old 2006-10-02, 17:20
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i blame MTV, materialism, cellphones and pretty much all trivial advertisment to ever exist.
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  #45  
Old 2006-10-02, 18:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmfreak
Have a school where say there are only. Maybe.. 3 ways in, at each one a lil checkpoint where they check IDs. If you dont' have an id no biggie, go to office and get one blah blah blah. I dont' think the check points need to have a cop or anything of the sort, but i don't think its unrealistic to have better ACCOUNTABILITY at schools. (i think this incident is alot more odd than the general school shooting case). But high schools have a bad problem with accountability.. and for my children when i have them, i want accountability.

Students should be issued IDs and htey should be checked, i think its irrational to think otherwise, but thats me.



School ID's can be counterfeited and reproduced. Not the pictures of the student, of course, but the detail in the school ID (Logos, school name, etc.). Plus, if the guy who wants to shoot up a school goes to that school, I doubt checking his ID will stop him. Now, have a state-of-the-art metal detector and maybe an X-ray machine, although may be a little extreme, would be highly effective. In this day and age, Beaurocracy, however annoying it is, is the safest path.


Also, in reference to putting blame on something: I blame only two people (well, technically 3); the Parents/Guardians, and/or the person who did the crime. Video Games and any other Media are just scapegoats, reasons for people to escape their problems without actually having to deal with them. I'm sorry, but it is my opinion that a game or a rapper has very little influence over a person's decisions, and if they DID influence the person, it is because that person was too weak-minded and let them. In the case of this guy who we are talking about; he attacked this school because of a supposed traumatizing event in his life (we don't know what it is) that he chose to ignore and not deal with it properly, or his parents chose to not help him through it properly. We all make our choices, no one makes our choices for us.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.

Last edited by CompelledToLacerate : 2006-10-02 at 18:41.
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  #46  
Old 2006-10-02, 18:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOB_ZE_METALLEU
that was dumb to tmfreak...because we dont need a big knife, but illegal weapon....but you're right for the rest



Huh? you didn't make any sense. I was pointing out the fact that the weapon isn't the killer as much as the killer is hte killer. Regardless of weapon available if somebody wanted to do it they could. He could have just made a bomb and blown them up and it would be probably even worse.


And to Moe blunts. I agree the underlying factor in the case is fucked up people, and there is almost nothing you can do about fucked up people, except maybe have some sort of fascist crazy government were euthansia was going on, and only a certain type of people were allowed to exist. Although thats somewhat of a joke, its kind of true.

In defense of IDs, i can understand h owthat can happen, but thats less of a case AGAINST ids, as more of a case of shitty implemenation. When places get too complacent, policies fail and so do safety measures. I'm not going to spend as much time as it would probably need to argue that one out, but alot of things can be blamed on complacency. Hell the american school system as a WHOLE is way too complacent.
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Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
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  #47  
Old 2006-10-02, 18:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmfreak
Huh? you didn't make any sense. I was pointing out the fact that the weapon isn't the killer as much as the killer is hte killer. Regardless of weapon available if somebody wanted to do it they could. He could have just made a bomb and blown them up and it would be probably even worse.


And to Moe blunts. I agree the underlying factor in the case is fucked up people, and there is almost nothing you can do about fucked up people, except maybe have some sort of fascist crazy government were euthansia was going on, and only a certain type of people were allowed to exist. Although thats somewhat of a joke, its kind of true.

In defense of IDs, i can understand h owthat can happen, but thats less of a case AGAINST ids, as more of a case of shitty implemenation. When places get too complacent, policies fail and so do safety measures. I'm not going to spend as much time as it would probably need to argue that one out, but alot of things can be blamed on complacency. Hell the american school system as a WHOLE is way too complacent.
My high school had 4 security guards (only two of them really did their job right) and AT LEAST 2 armed policeman in the halls at all time. Having said that, they had to cover a 1600 person school. We had IDs too.
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Compare these people to the norm, say, Muhammed SuiÁmez for instance who seems to think that lots of poorly strung together riffs spaced awkwardly around fancy monotonous sweeps covers up the fact that his ideas and songs are really quit boring.
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  #48  
Old 2006-10-02, 18:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CompelledToLacerate
School ID's can be counterfeited and reproduced. Not the pictures of the student, of course, but the detail in the school ID (Logos, school name, etc.). Plus, if the guy who wants to shoot up a school goes to that school, I doubt checking his ID will stop him. Now, have a state-of-the-art metal detector and maybe an X-ray machine, although may be a little extreme, would be highly effective. In this day and age, Beaurocracy, however annoying it is, is the safest path.



Well i understand what you mean, but its not supposed to "stop" the person more over, allow suffiecent before time for an officer or somebody with the authority TO stop the person. Thats just what i think. I understand the counterfeited thing but.. i mean i don't see a 35 year old random guy passing as a student at a school.

Not to mention its a case of just knowing who is and isn't on campus. I think its rediculous that anybody can walk around on a highschool or middle schools campus with hardly if at all any confrontation. I could right now walk into my old high school and just walk into any class.. And it wouldn't be a problem.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...
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  #49  
Old 2006-10-02, 18:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmfreak
Well i understand what you mean, but its not supposed to "stop" the person more over, allow suffiecent before time for an officer or somebody with the authority TO stop the person. Thats just what i think. I understand the counterfeited thing but.. i mean i don't see a 35 year old random guy passing as a student at a school.

Not to mention its a case of just knowing who is and isn't on campus. I think its rediculous that anybody can walk around on a highschool or middle schools campus with hardly if at all any confrontation. I could right now walk into my old high school and just walk into any class.. And it wouldn't be a problem.
Well this situation is different. Amish kids are EXTREMLEY sheltered, and pascifistic. I would wager that lots of them didnt know what a modern gun looks like. And it was a one room school. These kids are taught to be quiet and obediant, a stragner walking in with two guns would have complete intimidation and power over them in a second.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
Compare these people to the norm, say, Muhammed SuiÁmez for instance who seems to think that lots of poorly strung together riffs spaced awkwardly around fancy monotonous sweeps covers up the fact that his ideas and songs are really quit boring.
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  #50  
Old 2006-10-02, 18:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blood Red Bass
My high school had 4 security guards (only two of them really did their job right) and AT LEAST 2 armed policeman in the halls at all time. Having said that, they had to cover a 1600 person school. We had IDs too.




Wow, we had 1400 kids. 1 officer, and no ids.
I'm not sure what the point of your posting was, other than to say what you have. (in otherwords whether you are for or against.) but the 2 who don't do their right, is another case in failing to implement policy as it should be. Nobody likes to be a tough ass when it comes to work, but eh... discipline is needed in certain work environments where peoples wellfare is at stake.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...
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  #51  
Old 2006-10-02, 18:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blood Red Bass
Well this situation is different. Amish kids are EXTREMLEY sheltered, and pascifistic. I would wager that lots of them didnt know what a modern gun looks like. And it was a one room school. These kids are taught to be quiet and obediant, a stragner walking in with two guns would have complete intimidation and power over them in a second.


Oh i COMPLETELY agree ha. Thats why my entire arugment is a side tangent of this story. Its about modern schools and their issue with violence and guns. This situation is so completely out of the norm, a bunch of foreign people across the world are talking about it.. *cough* metaltabs *cough*.....

All i have to say about this kind of stuff... is makes you kind of realize how much people TRULY follow the laws and don't do insane things like this. As this is one person out of... 6 billion.. (yeah sure i know plenty of murder rapes and what not happen) You realize how dependant we are upon each and every person/ant to do their little part of staying civilized.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...
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  #52  
Old 2006-10-02, 18:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moe_blunts
the problem isnt security in schools, it's the fucked up people.


Best thing said so far.

I joke, however I obviously feel innocent deaths of little girls is obviously a terrible event.

Increased security doesn't stop everything. Ummmm......Iraq?

My high school had over 1200 students(grade 10-12) with a full time cop and full time security guards. There were still many race fights and people bringing weapons/drugs into the school.

Think about all the drugs being smuggled all over the world.

"Increased Security" will only invoke fear and bad things will still happen.
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you done told me lots of thangs bout beer n shit and canada. have a grand ol cunt of a good time.


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  #53  
Old 2006-10-02, 18:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassBehemoth
Best thing said so far.

I joke, however I obviously feel innocent deaths of little girls is obviously a terrible event.

Increased security doesn't stop everything. Ummmm......Iraq?

My high school had over 1200 students(grade 10-12) with a full time cop and full time security guards. There were still many race fights and people bringing weapons/drugs into the school.

Think about all the drugs being smuggled all over the world.

"Increased Security" will only invoke fear and bad things will still happen.

Then we need more than just security. I know this sounds ridiulous but I would have nothing against having a small garrison by a school.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
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  #54  
Old 2006-10-02, 19:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CompelledToLacerate
Then we need more than just security. I know this sounds ridiulous but I would have nothing against having a small garrison by a school.



Wow, somebody who actually agrees.

I'm sorry Bassb but thats a horrible example. Iraq. Besides the fact your comparing apples to oranges, when did there have INCREASED Security in Iraq? And when did this increased security lead to more violence? I mean you're seriously being just like everybody else who makes arguments against Iraq. You assume because the few incidents you hear about now and again about things that happen in Iraq that somehow its a complete mad house, and that violence is only increasing in Iraq. Thats a all too common belief.

And in response to your thing about your school. Same exact thing at my high school. One cop is obviously not enough, and rules are strict enough to prevent things. Its possible that there aren't enough FUNDS to fund having more cops in schools or other things such as.. check points, higher security things like cameras or detectors or whatever, but then again that doesn't say that my ideas or others don't work, its just they aren't being used or they're not being used properly.

Oh and i just reread your thing. About fear. Would you honeslty fear for your safety at school MORE from increased police or security? This is an opened question, as i'm not leading to anything i'm just curious if thats what you mean.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...
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  #55  
Old 2006-10-02, 19:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CompelledToLacerate
Then we need more than just security. I know this sounds ridiulous but I would have nothing against having a small garrison by a school.



Man fuck that. I'm not living my life in fear of getting killed while trying to finish homework before class starts...what is this? America?

This shit is always going to happen.

What Canada is doing to the godamn Northwest Passage.

"In the 2006 election, Prime Minister Stephen Harper made a campaign promise to defend Canada's Arctic sovereignty. He promised to bolster Canada's presence in the waterway with the addition of three heavy-duty armed icebreakers. He also planned to set up a network of underwater sensors to listen for foreign vessels, and put aircraft and unmanned drones in the skies over the North. The total cost of the Arctic commitments made by the Conservatives is about $5.3 billion over five years."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/northwest-passage/

$5.3 BILLION.....

There are children dying of hunger, while the richer countries are arming themselves for total annihilation of one another. Everyone isn't a bad person.


Edit - I agree there should be security to some extent. BUT SHIT LIKE THIS WILL STILL GO ON. IT WILL NOT BE STOPPED.
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Quote:
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you done told me lots of thangs bout beer n shit and canada. have a grand ol cunt of a good time.


RIP moe.

Last edited by BassBehemoth : 2006-10-02 at 19:08.
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  #56  
Old 2006-10-02, 19:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassBehemoth
Man fuck that. I'm not living my life in fear of getting killed while trying to finish homework before class starts...what is this? America?

This shit is always going to happen.

What Canada is doing to the godamn Northwest Passage.

"In the 2006 election, Prime Minister Stephen Harper made a campaign promise to defend Canada's Arctic sovereignty. He promised to bolster Canada's presence in the waterway with the addition of three heavy-duty armed icebreakers. He also planned to set up a network of underwater sensors to listen for foreign vessels, and put aircraft and unmanned drones in the skies over the North. The total cost of the Arctic commitments made by the Conservatives is about $5.3 billion over five years."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/northwest-passage/

$5.3 BILLION.....

There are children dying of hunger, while the richer countries are arming themselves for total annihilation of one another. Everyone isn't a bad person.



I'm sure there is more to this story than just meets the eye.. haha But WTF for?#()&

Thats fucking extreme as shit, and here people are pissed off that congress passed money to build a wall protecting american borders. Thats fucking wild haha. What exactly are they looking for....?


edit: I AGREE WITH YOU BASSB AS I"M A BIG PESSIMIST. I DON"T BELIEVE THAT THESE PEOPLE WILL EVER BE STOPPED. COMPLACENCY IS NEEDED TOO MUCH FOR A NORMAL CIVILIZED LIFESTYLE WHERE WE DEPEND UPON OTHERS TO COEXIST. WHY ARE WE TYPING IN ALL CAPS?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...

Last edited by tmfreak : 2006-10-02 at 19:11.
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  #57  
Old 2006-10-02, 19:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmfreak
Thats fucking extreme as shit, and here people are pissed off that congress passed money to build a wall protecting american borders. Thats fucking wild haha. What exactly are they looking for....?



Yes exactly, and they are boosting the Canadian/American boarder big time. I don't even like going to America now because you feel like you're a godamn criminal.

Canada is safe haven for terrorists...obviously.

Edit- And I really hate our PM, Stephen Harper..he's nothing more huge right wing, Bush puppet. I didn't vote for the fucker.
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you done told me lots of thangs bout beer n shit and canada. have a grand ol cunt of a good time.


RIP moe.
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  #58  
Old 2006-10-02, 19:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassBehemoth
Yes exactly, and they are boosting the Canadian/American boarder big time. I don't even like going to America now because you feel like you're a godamn criminal.

Canada is safe haven for terrorists...obviously.



Well i would definately say they attempt to make you think that.. but eh, enjoy my country and i'm one hella proud american.

And ps. its cause your country sucks.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...
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  #59  
Old 2006-10-02, 19:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassBehemoth
Man fuck that. I'm not living my life in fear of getting killed while trying to finish homework before class starts...what is this? America?

This shit is always going to happen.

What Canada is doing to the godamn Northwest Passage.

"In the 2006 election, Prime Minister Stephen Harper made a campaign promise to defend Canada's Arctic sovereignty. He promised to bolster Canada's presence in the waterway with the addition of three heavy-duty armed icebreakers. He also planned to set up a network of underwater sensors to listen for foreign vessels, and put aircraft and unmanned drones in the skies over the North. The total cost of the Arctic commitments made by the Conservatives is about $5.3 billion over five years."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/northwest-passage/

$5.3 BILLION.....

There are children dying of hunger, while the richer countries are arming themselves for total annihilation of one another. Everyone isn't a bad person.


Edit - I agree there should be security to some extent. BUT SHIT LIKE THIS WILL STILL GO ON. IT WILL NOT BE STOPPED.

IT won't stop from happening, no. But we can stop IT from doing what IT intends to do.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
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  #60  
Old 2006-10-02, 19:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmfreak
Well i would definately say they attempt to make you think that.. but eh, enjoy my country and i'm one hella proud american.

And ps. its cause your country sucks.



I enjoy America as well, I've been countless times dude. But perhaps they should realize more of who their friends are/were, than to delve deep into what enemies they have?

I was really proud to be a canadian when we were known for our successful peace keeping missions throughout the world. However, the current PM is almost flipping that upside down and jumping on the terror bandwagon. I mean, Canada didn't even have anything to do with it until we jumped into Afghanistan.
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Quote:
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you done told me lots of thangs bout beer n shit and canada. have a grand ol cunt of a good time.


RIP moe.
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