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  #41  
Old 2006-09-11, 22:51
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Shreddist Shreddist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtiel


You should probably stay out of these arguments if thats how you present yours.

Its all about nuance. There is no "good vs evil". Its that kind of "either you're with us or against us" kind of attitude that got us into this mess.

Plus, according to your profile you are 17. Not sayin 17 year olds cant have an opinion, but you might want to filter yours with some rational thought first.


I have 2 brothers, both in the marines. I know what's going on.
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  #42  
Old 2006-09-11, 22:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4d5e6f
Bad analogy. The nation isn't a living thing with fingers and toes.


The analogy made perfect sense to me. He is saying even though its a small portion, it matters. To marginalize something like a human life based on the fact that "statistically" or "numerically" they dont really matter is inhuman.

Quote:
I have 2 brothers, both in the marines. I know what's going on.


Still, you cant turn a complex issue such as war into a "we are good and they are bad and good is always right" issue. This isnt a movie.

When you get older you'll realize, but in the meantime you are going to have your opinion and theres nothing I can do about that.
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Originally Posted by the_bleeding
buy a stick of graphite (art stores) and rub it into your nut

Last edited by Valtiel : 2006-09-11 at 22:58.
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  #43  
Old 2006-09-11, 22:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blood Red Bass
The toes equate to the people killed. Both are small percentages of a greater thing. (human body> toes) (number of people> total population). If anyone else thought that analogy was confusing please tell me, I thought it was simple to understand.

It's not that I didn't understand your analogy, I just don't agree with it. A nation isn't a human being with consciousness and perception of reality. You and I are in different paradigms, making this argument pretty much useless. Go ahead and post your opinions, but be aware you won't be changing anybody's life.
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  #44  
Old 2006-09-11, 23:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4d5e6f
It's not that I didn't understand your analogy, I just don't agree with it. A nation isn't a human being with consciousness and perception of reality. You and I are in different paradigms, making this argument pretty much useless. Go ahead and post your opinions, but be aware you won't be changing anybody's life.

Ha, I doubt anyone's life has been seriously changed by a forum. Nor has anyone made it a mission to change someone's life on a forum. Right now its just a battle of binary codes.
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Originally Posted by Darko
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  #45  
Old 2006-09-11, 23:04
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1>0.
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Originally Posted by the_bleeding
buy a stick of graphite (art stores) and rub it into your nut
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  #46  
Old 2006-09-11, 23:31
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Valtiel good posts. Not because by any means are they supporting what i said, cause i could careless. But its about openmindedness and logical deductions. I absolutely 100% agree with this scaretactic bullshit. (that its going on) And it pisses me hte fuck off and i think its working the masses of course, for the rest such as myself i can see through that shit.

As for the patriot act comment earlier. Eh there are alot of things about this, but you know you go ahead 4d5e6f and read your 1984 and get all paranoid and become some anti-government let me live int eh woods with an arsonal of weapons because the government is out to get everyone. I'm sorry 1984 although a great book BARELY is like america of today. If you are too "radical" and hardheaded to view that, then thats sad. Are some IMPORTANT liberties getting robbed yeah no shit, you can thank more than this "right wing agenda" for that. Not to mention if i remember correctly the congress passes the laws and acts and REAPPROVES of them. So sure if somebody not sayin 4d5e6f neccesarily wants to take that political left wing stance which is taken all the time, you could seriously shove it up your ass cause its bullshit.

But anyways off that subject, back to what was being side before. If you think 3006 people isn't alot of people you seriously need to jump back and rethink that. I don't know one person that was in the world trade centers, and i don't really give a fuck about the personal aspect, a cowardice mislead barbaric attack of innocent lives whether it be fucking 1 or... 3006 is pretty god damn significant if you ask me or.. plenty of others. Not to mention lets look at it ont he basis of BASIC social morality. The murder of 1 person in itself is a big deal let alone 3000+. Do you not think? Whether your morality resides in the masses or not thats a basic fact of society. (Not saying belieivng in morals outside of society is wrong, simply stating a moral philosophy observation.) So take that as you will. Honestly i could careless if i change your mind or anybodys, i'm stating my opinion and my logical deductions.


Btw about the first Shreddist post and Valtiel's response... I laughed probably for about 5 minutes
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...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...

Last edited by tmfreak : 2006-09-11 at 23:37.
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  #47  
Old 2006-09-12, 00:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmfreak
As for the patriot act comment earlier. Eh there are alot of things about this, but you know you go ahead 4d5e6f and read your 1984 and get all paranoid and become some anti-government let me live int eh woods with an arsonal of weapons because the government is out to get everyone. I'm sorry 1984 although a great book BARELY is like america of today. If you are too "radical" and hardheaded to view that, then thats sad. Are some IMPORTANT liberties getting robbed yeah no shit, you can thank more than this "right wing agenda" for that. Not to mention if i remember correctly the congress passes the laws and acts and REAPPROVES of them. So sure if somebody not sayin 4d5e6f neccesarily wants to take that political left wing stance which is taken all the time, you could seriously shove it up your ass cause its bullshit.




the patriot act controversy is about accountability, checks and balances. we cant even get so much as a paper trail<written record who,what,where,why> on who the govt monitors and to what degree they do so, for all we know bush and company could be detailing political opponents and journalists. the constitution outlines boundries that we are well beyond right now. if you actually read leftist news,blogs etc. they talk about accountability and only revoking those powers under the presumption there wont be any. im fine with wiretaps,internet invasion, searches and siezures as long as its on record and approved by the supreme court. im fine with changing rules in which these things can be fast-tracked and not hinder investigations.


as far 1984, maybe you should reread it dude.

osama bin ladin=emmanuel goldstien

fox news=2 minute hate


even if all of the precursors are debunked and you still think its for the general good to follow thru on an iraq occupation. even if you conceed that iraq was not the imminent threat that was trumped before the UN and the senate<who provided funding with our money>. even if you feel the end justified the means even if it included decieving THE WORLD

on that rationale, on the standard that we held saddam to we can possibly invade the entire middle east,most of africa, some of our coalition allies.

especially pakistan. numbero uno provider of NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY TO ROGUE STATES.

after a while people may refer to this as imperialism, and they will have a point.
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Last edited by low-tech : 2006-09-12 at 00:26.
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  #48  
Old 2006-09-12, 00:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalThrashingMad
Courtesy of the other MTM for showing me

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse...gi?u=911_morons


Strike. I'm bookmarking this.
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  #49  
Old 2006-09-12, 00:58
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War On Terror...

Try killing yourselves America.

I'm not taking sides either.

Middle-easteners attack American buildings, killing innocent people, people with a family at home.

America strikes back, killing innocent people, people with a family at home.

I'm failing to see the difference here...
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  #50  
Old 2006-09-12, 02:44
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I feel what happened on 9/11 is becoming over-sentimental, largely due to the media drumming up support for the war on terror. America forgets that some people have lived with terrorism for 30 or more years and not glorified their retaliation (if any retaliation was carried out at all) with such vigour as America.

Look at Northern Ireland. Terrorism is a thing of the past because the British government actually decided to listen to the other point of view. It is, however, difficult to reason with people who want all Westerners dead for no better treason than we don't believe that Allah is omnipotent. This is still no reason for glorifying what we are doing to the middle east.
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  #51  
Old 2006-09-12, 03:24
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bla bla bla, its sad, not worth remembering every year, if i died they wouldn't cry for me every year, and those people were just like me. horrific, bad, sad, bla bla yes it happened like 5 years ago time to get over it.
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  #52  
Old 2006-09-12, 04:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpethFan
I'm not taking sides either.

Middle-easteners attack American buildings, killing innocent people, people with a family at home.

America strikes back, killing innocent people, people with a family at home.

I'm failing to see the difference here...

+1
It's terrorists vs terrorists
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  #53  
Old 2006-09-12, 05:07
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Most of you people need a better understanding of the world from a first person point of view. If I seem challenging or judgmental to whoever reads this than I'm sorry. I know most of you are young, so please forgive the stereotype I'm about to use, but you know nothing about the rest of the world outside yourself. Although I don't know shit about of most of you personally, I think most of you don't really know shit about the real, fagile, and deadly world we are living in today. You are not going to learn it online, from TV, from living in those hot spots, or joining military service either. That is how I know most of you are completely full of shit. Lots of the post here contain absolute ideals and seem to have everything figured out. The more I've seen of the world the more confused I've become. I'm not sure anyone in this world really knows what the fuck is going on right now, but everyone likes to think they do and that scares me the most for some reason. Sure, it is good to talk about things but some of you need some more insight. I really believe the world might see the beginning of WWIII if shit doesn't cool down. There is just so much building up in the world and pointed at a destructive direction right now. Conditions and ignorance are peaking. The one thing I have learned the best from the military is that safety and freedom are not guaranteed. It is protected by people just like you so if you are not willing to step up and help then don't expect others to do it for you either. Funny how there have been enough people willing to dedicate thier efforts to insuring others feel safe for so long that most people might feel like they never have anything to fear from outside. I used to feel that way! Thats a false since of safety and a deadly mistake if shit on this planet hits the fan, because with the weapons and idealism that exist on this world today.... Lets put it this way, once everyone realizes the cheese is sliding off the cracker ( just like happened on 9/11 ), everyone will want to know why something more was not done to prevent it, but by then its to late. Well, like it or not, things are being done to prevent wrose things from happening. Perhaps you say everyone needs to just let everyone else do as they will? Well thats just fine as long as there isn't someone planning to destroy you and now has the beathing room to do it. You may not really understand it but their are millions of people in this world that want me, you, and all the western world dead right now. Just give it a chance and I promise they can do it too. I wish I could feel like I know what the fuck I was talking about here but the more I know the more unsure I become. I don't think anyone on this world really understands everything either. I'm scared and have good right to be. Everyone in the world needs to be scared. Maybe shit might get better.

Fuck! I didn't want to post this much.

I like to remember the people that died on 9/11. It motivates me to make life count. I wish I could have done more for them all and I wish I could have prevented it, but I can't go back in time so I work to make the future better.
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Last edited by Soulinsane : 2006-09-12 at 05:12.
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  #54  
Old 2006-09-12, 08:47
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I know what you mean, Souli. There's so much propaganda out there it's hard to see what's really happening. I dislike most media coverage because it's so biased and just a small portion of a bigger picture. The positive things that happen are overwhelmed by the negatives since that's what "sells" their products. Talking to those that have been there gives a little better perspective, but it's still just a small portion.

I think we should remember 9-11. I think the memorials are good ideas. Last Memorial Day here some of the veterans gathered prior to the parade and the American Legion placed a wreath there. Hubby was one that carried and placed. Those vets remember what they went through in the service to their country and their families and friends. There were heroes in the 9-11 disaster and I don't think it's fair to not remember that our grounds were hit. Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.

I know yesterday I walked out my back door and saw the moon in the morning sky with a wide jetstream next to it. I went in and got my camera. And I was thinking I'd remember the precise day I took that picture because of the events that day. I remembered how strange it was when all the flights were cancelled and how odd it seemed not to see the jets in the sky. We see quite a few being so close to Cleveland and Erie. I didn't know anyone in the towers and I know it didn't make the impression it did to others that were there. I think it gave me a new appreciation for the safety and freedom we do have over here and that we aren't subjected to some of the horrible conditions that parts of the rest of the world have.

I think it's kind of sad that some whine that more isn't done in certain disasters forgetting that they're human like the rest of us with limits on knowledge and control. Maybe it's because i'm not right in the middle of it though. There's a lot of questions I don't dwell on because I know I'll never have the answers. I just do the best I can and remember those who have done what they could, too.
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  #55  
Old 2006-09-12, 08:50
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Well i'm not going to comment any more about my personal beliefs or my opinion or limited knowledge on the subjects at hand. But i am definately going to say I attempt to forget about this kind of stuff for good reason. Sure i think about it now and again.

But somehwere along hte line a year or 2 ago i realized that continuing to think on such hostile terms doesn't do anything but eat you away. This is why i fail to conduct debates in politics or issues anymore. It drives me insane and i literally just become a pissed off and hostile person. I'll let others make those decisions and those policies for me. If things get fucked up, well sadly enough that is the real world and it happens.

There are some people on here with some pretty solid opinions and ideas. On both sides of the spectrum. I'll just continue to play my metal, live my life and move on because thats the BEST thing i could do, probably for myself, my family (future and present) and beyond. Sure i'm in the Marine Corps, sure i could be deployed to become apart of it. And i'll do it, because i'm told to, and i'll do my best to protect marines lives through good intelligence, because thats what i do.

I feel things will definately get better with a little bit more time. Things dont' get changed better over night. Sure shit can hit hte fan over night, but hardly does it ever work in the opposite manner.
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...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...
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  #56  
Old 2006-09-12, 10:25
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Damn you moe blunts, creating these uber-controversial threads and getting off while we get more and more pissed at each other.
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Compare these people to the norm, say, Muhammed SuiÁmez for instance who seems to think that lots of poorly strung together riffs spaced awkwardly around fancy monotonous sweeps covers up the fact that his ideas and songs are really quit boring.
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  #57  
Old 2006-09-12, 10:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blood Red Bass
Damn you moe blunts, creating these uber-controversial threads and getting off while we get more and more pissed at each other.



Moe blunnnnnnnnnnnnnts! *shakes fist wildly*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...
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  #58  
Old 2006-09-12, 12:20
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9/11 is a bunch of fags.

LOL, let's beef up security at the Canadian boarder because they're a terrorist safe haven! LOLZ.


Fucking morons, they are just digging themselves a hole. In a few years, China will pWn3d America anyways.

At least we will be alive to see the downfall of the US! LOL.

Condi Rice came to Halifax yesterday to thank us for using our runways/schools/hospitals/churches for the planes and people redirected from 9/11.
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you done told me lots of thangs bout beer n shit and canada. have a grand ol cunt of a good time.


RIP moe.
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  #59  
Old 2006-09-12, 12:47
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yay MOE_BLUNTS!


*hovers in corner.


and bass........there is no way china can remain communist and surpass the US. the real threat is fuckin japan........that is the epitome of capitalism. chinks and their work ethic....i'll tell ya what.
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  #60  
Old 2006-09-12, 12:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moe_blunts
yay MOE_BLUNTS!


*hovers in corner.


and bass........there is no way china can remain communist and surpass the US. the real threat is fuckin japan........that is the epitome of capitalism. chinks and their work ethic....i'll tell ya what.



I agree with this so much. Not to mention the per.. capita if you will of china to america ratio is rediculous. For china to be over the united states economically.. would.. seriously be nearly impossible. I'm not saying its completely impossible damn near improbable, but if you look at the living conditions and economic intake of like 99% of the people in china and compare it to america its not even compareable. As far as Japan goes, something about i guess their work ethic and social ethics makes japan really stand out, and its insane how... powerful a player on the global market they really are. Somethin about that japanese culture must be doin it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...
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