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  #81  
Old 2006-09-05, 19:44
Requiem Requiem is offline
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haha ......................... i miss him but those were damn funny
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  #82  
Old 2006-09-05, 21:46
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I feel bad for his kids man. They will have tons of videos that showed how cool there dad was and then have to deal not only with his constant abscence, but knowing that he died in an extremely rare, freakish way......
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  #83  
Old 2006-09-06, 02:59
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Originally Posted by User01
that just shows how ignorant you are! how can you pass judgement on someone if you are not aware of what hes done. how can you say that he has done NOTHING good.


That just shows how ignorant you are! how can you pass judgement on someone if you are not aware of what hes done. how can you say that he has done ANYTHING good.

Spot the difference. I know he endangered his kid's life while he was working. Ask any mother, what they think about a father who would wilflully place their kid in danger for a publicity stunt.
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  #84  
Old 2006-09-06, 03:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmansley
That just shows how ignorant you are! how can you pass judgement on someone if you are not aware of what hes done. how can you say that he has done ANYTHING good.

Spot the difference. I know he endangered his kid's life while he was working. Ask any mother, what they think about a father who would wilflully place their kid in danger for a publicity stunt.


so your saying hes done absolutely NOTHING good?
nothing at all, not even his constant acts towards wildlife and environment conservation...?

sure what he did with the baby was bad, but that doesnt mean you should totally ignore everything hes done for the wild life and environment.

damn scouser
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  #85  
Old 2006-09-06, 04:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by User01
so your saying hes done absolutely NOTHING good?
nothing at all, not even his constant acts towards wildlife and environment conservation...?


Isn't that part of his (well paid) job as a naturalist? Yay, I'm a good man because I do peoples' tax returns every day!

Quote:
Originally Posted by User01
sure what he did with the baby was bad, but that doesnt mean you should totally ignore everything hes done for the wild life and environment.


Why not? Much the same way I've got no respect for Michael Jackson, even though he's done heaps of work for charities and produced some entertaining music.

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damn scouser


What's that got to do with anything?
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  #86  
Old 2006-09-06, 05:41
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i tend to agree with jonh to an extent.

this whole "whorshipping dead celebs" thing is annoying. Steve Irwin could've died in the same exact manner, but had he never been on TV, no one would even know who this guy was and even less people would be mourning his dead.

is, suddenly, being a celeb, a mark of supremacy? shit, last time i checked, he was humans, with all the good and bad things humans have. if i died before him, would he come to the internet and post "what a BEEEEEEEEAUTY!!! shame TTA died!!!"?

holy shit, the only memory i have of him is that he was a dumbass that, for some reason, managed to avoid being eaten by a crocodile/snake/mountain goat for 44 years.
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  #87  
Old 2006-09-06, 06:20
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The difference is, how many people do you know. How many people like you. Majority of Australians know the guy, hence, it is on the news and is getting all this media attention. Obviously people give a shit.
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  #88  
Old 2006-09-06, 07:43
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well, whatever, i guess we'll have to agree to disagree. i cant help but feel your wrong, even though im from the UK and i have no national links etc, i still feel for him man and show respect.
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  #89  
Old 2006-09-06, 09:46
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Originally Posted by *insert name here*
Majority of Australians know the guy, hence, it is on the news and is getting all this media attention.


no you don't. majority of Australians have seen him on TV, probably a couple of times live. how many had dinner with him, engaged in a conversation, shared experiences, traded ideas?

you don't know the guy, you simply know who he is (was), which is a completely different thing.

Quote:
Obviously people give a shit.


celebrity cult in action. he could have lived the life he lived and been the person he was... had he never been on TV, not only the "Majority of Australians" would have no idea how he was but even less would realize he died.
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  #90  
Old 2006-09-06, 09:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ten Ton Alien
is, suddenly, being a celeb, a mark of supremacy?

Damn right it is.
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  #91  
Old 2006-09-06, 12:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmansley
Isn't that part of his (well paid) job as a naturalist? Yay, I'm a good man because I do peoples' tax returns every day!

Why not? Much the same way I've got no respect for Michael Jackson, even though he's done heaps of work for charities and produced some entertaining music.


your job and his job are hardly a good comparison. you do your job to get paid...not to help people. you didn't start doing it for less in the beginning because you were a good person. his job helps animals and brings info/enlightenment to people. when he began doing that line of work..it wasn't to be on tv or make big bucks. it was something that fascinated him.

yea he made money and became a celeb...but he was in it for a long time before that so why not continue to do the same? especially if you are making money and becoming famous (thus spreading your ideas even further).

the michael jackson reference sucks too...you lost your respect for him when he did that shit with his baby??!!? i lost all respect for that asshole long before that. also...he didn't dangle his baby over the open mouth of a crocodile like jackson held his baby over the edge of a balcony.

erwin, like ANY human, made some mistakes...the only reason his was made to be such a big deal is because hes a celeb. thats part of the package deal you get when you become famous. everyone is there watching and will instantly spread news of your misfortune/wrong doing/etc.

i don't think a couple lapses in judgement negate the decades of effort he has put into his area of interest.

there are always people jumping on the celebrity mourning bandwagon...but doesn't this happen on the small scale too? how many of you know someone that has died, and then seen people that weren't their friends or never talked to them try and say "ohh we were great friends, i'll miss them forever, i can't believe it!!!"
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  #92  
Old 2006-09-06, 15:38
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Being a celeb isn't 'suddenly' a mark of supremacy.The only different in recent years, and even this is getting to be old hat, is that it's being made increasingly more obvious that people who are famous for absolutely no reason (which wasn't always as easy as it is today) are valued for nothing other than their celebrity.

Anyway, he died harassing animals rather than in the various excruciatingly boring ways most of you will. For that, at least, cheers. The rest I really don't give any more of a shit about than I did when he was alive.

Oh, and when I start banning everybody who calls somebody a dirty word on here, I'll ban Bia too.
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  #93  
Old 2006-09-07, 04:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xgrafcorex
your job and his job are hardly a good comparison. you do your job to get paid...not to help people. you didn't start doing it for less in the beginning because you were a good person. his job helps animals and brings info/enlightenment to people. when he began doing that line of work..it wasn't to be on tv or make big bucks. it was something that fascinated him.


So Steve Irwin wasn't doing a job for which he was handsomely remunerated? Yeah, OK...

There are vets on TV who do ten times more for animal welfare yet don't get half the money that Irwin did, a hundredth of the recognition and will not be mourned with such reverie.

He's doing his job. If he did it for the love of animals, nobody would ever have heard of him to mourn him as he'd no doubt be working for a charity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xgrafcorex
yea he made money and became a celeb...but he was in it for a long time before that so why not continue to do the same? especially if you are making money and becoming famous (thus spreading your ideas even further).


I bet you've called Metallica sellouts at some point haven't you? If he was so into it, why didn't he devote all of his time to a charity who no doubt could make use of his expertise? There are so many other ways of bringing animal welfare to the forefront: Have you heard of the RSPCA? Who runs it? I don't know either, yet this animal charity is exceptionally well known.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xgrafcorex
the michael jackson reference sucks too...you lost your respect for him when he did that shit with his baby??!!? i lost all respect for that asshole long before that. also...he didn't dangle his baby over the open mouth of a crocodile like jackson held his baby over the edge of a balcony.


How is my Michael Jackson reference a bad one? Both endangered their respective childrens' lives and arguing over who placed them in the more perilous position is moot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xgrafcorex
erwin, like ANY human, made some mistakes...the only reason his was made to be such a big deal is because hes a celeb. thats part of the package deal you get when you become famous. everyone is there watching and will instantly spread news of your misfortune/wrong doing/etc.

i don't think a couple lapses in judgement negate the decades of effort he has put into his area of interest.


So you're saying that parading your kid 6 feet from a crocodile is a "lapse in judgement"? It's fucking negligent and irresponsible and would be a tad more serious than a "mistake" if that crocodile had killed his kid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xgrafcorex
there are always people jumping on the celebrity mourning bandwagon...but doesn't this happen on the small scale too? how many of you know someone that has died, and then seen people that weren't their friends or never talked to them try and say "ohh we were great friends, i'll miss them forever, i can't believe it!!!"


Of course it happens on the small scale - nobody denied that it didn't - but do you know what I'd do to those people? I'd tell them to fuck off and save their crocodile tears for somebody that they actually knew in person.
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  #94  
Old 2006-09-07, 04:51
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Onward, brave Sir Johnmansley, onward to defeateth ye olde drago of ignorance!
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  #95  
Old 2006-09-07, 08:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ten Ton Alien
no you don't. majority of Australians have seen him on TV, probably a couple of times live. how many had dinner with him, engaged in a conversation, shared experiences, traded ideas?

you don't know the guy, you simply know who he is (was), which is a completely different thing.



celebrity cult in action. he could have lived the life he lived and been the person he was... had he never been on TV, not only the "Majority of Australians" would have no idea how he was but even less would realize he died.

You know what I ment, now try a logical answer.
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  #96  
Old 2006-09-07, 08:33
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R.I.P Steve, such a legend..
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  #97  
Old 2006-09-07, 10:35
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Originally Posted by xgrafcorex
how many of you know someone that has died, and then seen people that weren't their friends or never talked to them try and say "ohh we were great friends, i'll miss them forever, i can't believe it!!!"

This always happens. This summer my friend got killed in a car accedent and there were a bunch of people at his funeral that he hated. It was kind of disgusting knowing that my dead friend would have personally wanted to kick their asses for being there.
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  #98  
Old 2006-09-07, 15:18
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I always felt that the animals came second place on his nature program at times after his 'Jackass TV' style antics. I find nature and animals fascinating enough on their own with out a manically elated stereo type in khaki shorts pouncing on them and poking them so they'll point their poisoness or sharp bits at the camera. Yet again it's a sign of the under stimulated play station generation who can't watch something unless the host sounds like an amphetamine fuelled attention seeker with a death wish.



Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmansley
Isn't that part of his (well paid) job as a naturalist? Yay, I'm a good man because I do peoples' tax returns every day!


And yes, John does his job and helps people, he sorts out the tax which goes to pay for hospitals, schools and the welfare state etc. That then goes towards making our little island a green and coruscating gem of a beacon for people living in former eastern block countries! .......mind you I know of a few people who would love to stick things up a tax mans butt to 'really piss them off!'
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  #99  
Old 2006-09-07, 16:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmansley
So Steve Irwin wasn't doing a job for which he was handsomely remunerated? Yeah, OK...


Steve did make a lot of money, I'm not sure how much, but I feel confident to say it was a lot. He also died doing what he loved, and lived a terrific life so I don't feel bad for him (nor should anyone), I feel bad for his family. He did not get into this for the money, though, nobody gets into biology or wildlife conservation for money. He got tremendously lucky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmansley
There are vets on TV who do ten times more for animal welfare yet don't get half the money that Irwin did, a hundredth of the recognition and will not be mourned with such reverie.


What vets do on TV is nothing, and I'll explain why. The word they are spreading is intended to end inhumane treatment of domestic animals. This is 100% insignificant in several ways- 1. everyone who neglects or abuses domestic animals already knows what they are doing is very wrong and are going to do it anyway, 2. despite the fact that animal abuse bothers me, it doesn't hurt this planet or mankind in any way.

Contrarily, what Steve did (and other TV conservations continue to do just as well as Steve) informed a largely ignorant public of the plight of WILD animals, animals whose populations, once decimated, won't come back. It's important to conserve wildlife and habitat because if it disappears, so do we. That's so much more important than making sure Bertha the cat lady feeds all 110 of her kitties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmansley
He's doing his job. If he did it for the love of animals, nobody would ever have heard of him to mourn him as he'd no doubt be working for a charity.


It's a full time job. You can't do what he did for charity or you'll never eat. Most of us will never make more money than to pay for our own expenses, Steve just got lucky. He had an intense charisma and enthusiasm that translated well to TV, and if he could make money while doing something good for the planet, why not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmansley
I bet you've called Metallica sellouts at some point haven't you? If he was so into it, why didn't he devote all of his time to a charity who no doubt could make use of his expertise? There are so many other ways of bringing animal welfare to the forefront: Have you heard of the RSPCA? Who runs it? I don't know either, yet this animal charity is exceptionally well known.


Again, John, animal rights and animals conservancy are two completely different entities. Conservationists are generally level science minded people who study ecology and understand the intricate balance of nature and how mankind itself relies on the stability of that balance in order to survive. Animal rights activists are often good people, but are just often over emotional weirdos who cry and call me a murderer because I eat a cheeseburger. They don't understand science as well, and put lesser animals above people by affording them rights they don't deserve and trying to rob humans of our own niche in the food chain.

I'm totally against cruelty perpetrated against animals, but I distance myself as far as possible from animal rights activism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmansley
How is my Michael Jackson reference a bad one? Both endangered their respective childrens' lives and arguing over who placed them in the more perilous position is moot.


I'll reiterate again that I've seen the video and Steve was clearly calm, in control, and knew what he was doing the whole time. You can't work with such dangerous animals without gaining a completely intimate knowledge of every single inch you have to work with. Having seen it, I was never once under the impression that the child was in even a tiny bit of danger, and clearly his wife- who I think we can agree is a bit more orthodox than Steve- didn't think so, either. Wouldn't you take your kids away from some crazy nut who tries to feed them to a crocodile?

It was more of media blowing things out of proportion, and because very few people can relate to Steve's knowledge and would themselves have no clue how to deal with such a situation, they automatically transpose that same ignorance onto Steve, therefore assuming he was being negligent in the handling of his own child. That is simply incorrect.

I've seen a lot of my heroes die prematurely, a lot of people I've wanted to meet before I die. I can honestly say I feel the least sorry for Steve because of how he lived and all the stuff he got to do. I felt a bit more for guys like Chuck Shuldiner and Eddie Guerrero... Chuck because he was, by all accounts, a nice and brilliant man and terrific musician who was taken away by something that he saw coming and could do nothing to stop. Eddie was a completely difference story altogether that I'll spare you- if you know wrestling, you already know why so many die young, if you don't, you don't care.

I'd also like to share something that the vast majority of people who have seen Steve's show would not had noticed- Steve's handling of snakes differed vastly from that normally employed by herpetologists. Steve seemed to have sixth sense as it relates to having a feel for what mood the snakes were in and what they were about to do next. He had a way of free handling dangerous toxic reptiles and capturing them that no other herpetologist would be willing to try. The standard way to handle venomous snakes is in a very restrained way- you hold them in a very specific way behind the head so that they can't reach around and bite you. Despite careful handling, 99.99% of all herpetologists are bitten by dangerously venomous snakes at some point in their career. Steve, despite his refusal to restrain these animals, was never bitten, at least, up until around 2003, I lost track of his career after that without my cable TV. Steve seemed to share a soul with the animals he understood, to the point where he knew exactly what they were going to, it was eerily uncanny. That's what made him stand out to me.

For the record, my favorite guy is British herpetologist Mark O'Shea, who also has done TV.
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  #100  
Old 2006-09-07, 16:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rezendes
Steve did make a lot of money, I'm not sure how much, but I feel confident to say it was a lot. He also died doing what he loved, and lived a terrific life so I don't feel bad for him (nor should anyone), I feel bad for his family. He did not get into this for the money, though, nobody gets into biology or wildlife conservation for money. He got tremendously lucky.
What vets do on TV is nothing, and I'll explain why. The word they are spreading is intended to end inhumane treatment of domestic animals. This is 100% insignificant in several ways- 1. everyone who neglects or abuses domestic animals already knows what they are doing is very wrong and are going to do it anyway, 2. despite the fact that animal abuse bothers me, it doesn't hurt this planet or mankind in any way.
Contrarily, what Steve did (and other TV conservations continue to do just as well as Steve) informed a largely ignorant public of the plight of WILD animals, animals whose populations, once decimated, won't come back. It's important to conserve wildlife and habitat because if it disappears, so do we. That's so much more important than making sure Bertha the cat lady feeds all 110 of her kitties.
It's a full time job. You can't do what he did for charity or you'll never eat. Most of us will never make more money than to pay for our own expenses, Steve just got lucky. He had an intense charisma and enthusiasm that translated well to TV, and if he could make money while doing something good for the planet, why not?
Again, John, animal rights and animals conservancy are two completely different entities. Conservationists are generally level science minded people who study ecology and understand the intricate balance of nature and how mankind itself relies on the stability of that balance in order to survive. Animal rights activists are often good people, but are just often over emotional weirdos who cry and call me a murderer because I eat a cheeseburger. They don't understand science as well, and put lesser animals above people by affording them rights they don't deserve and trying to rob humans of our own niche in the food chain.
I'm totally against cruelty perpetrated against animals, but I distance myself as far as possible from animal rights activism.
I'll reiterate again that I've seen the video and Steve was clearly calm, in control, and knew what he was doing the whole time. You can't work with such dangerous animals without gaining a completely intimate knowledge of every single inch you have to work with. Having seen it, I was never once under the impression that the child was in even a tiny bit of danger, and clearly his wife- who I think we can agree is a bit more orthodox than Steve- didn't think so, either. Wouldn't you take your kids away from some crazy nut who tries to feed them to a crocodile?
It was more of media blowing things out of proportion, and because very few people can relate to Steve's knowledge and would themselves have no clue how to deal with such a situation, they automatically transpose that same ignorance onto Steve, therefore assuming he was being negligent in the handling of his own child. That is simply incorrect.
I've seen a lot of my heroes die prematurely, a lot of people I've wanted to meet before I die. I can honestly say I feel the least sorry for Steve because of how he lived and all the stuff he got to do. I felt a bit more for guys like Chuck Shuldiner and Eddie Guerrero... Chuck because he was, by all accounts, a nice and brilliant man and terrific musician who was taken away by something that he saw coming and could do nothing to stop. Eddie was a completely difference story altogether that I'll spare you- if you know wrestling, you already know why so many die young, if you don't, you don't care.
I'd also like to share something that the vast majority of people who have seen Steve's show would not had noticed- Steve's handling of snakes differed vastly from that normally employed by herpetologists. Steve seemed to have sixth sense as it relates to having a feel for what mood the snakes were in and what they were about to do next. He had a way of free handling dangerous toxic reptiles and capturing them that no other herpetologist would be willing to try. The standard way to handle venomous snakes is in a very restrained way- you hold them in a very specific way behind the head so that they can't reach around and bite you. Despite careful handling, 99.99% of all herpetologists are bitten by dangerously venomous snakes at some point in their career. Steve, despite his refusal to restrain these animals, was never bitten, at least, up until around 2003, I lost track of his career after that without my cable TV. Steve seemed to share a soul with the animals he understood, to the point where he knew exactly what they were going to, it was eerily uncanny. That's what made him stand out to me.
For the record, my favorite guy is British herpetologist Mark O'Shea, who also has done TV.


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