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  #21  
Old 2006-05-14, 16:01
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I got everything back together and gave the neigherhood a audio test.

Everything sounds great. The high end and mids didn't really seemed that changed but everything did seem more clear and seperated somehow.

As for the bass, I noticed a bigger difference. All bass freqs were more detailed, crisper, and punchy. I played with different EQ settings and found the cab reponded very clearly to individual bass freq adjustments better then before, plus I could also boost them higher then before without the tone becoming muddy.

I'm not sure if it was the better wire, the foam, or sealing everything air tight ( likely a combination of all ) but the cab has been modified for the better, even if the change is small. I can at least sleep better now knowing my cab is as good as it can get.
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  #22  
Old 2006-05-14, 16:14
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awesome

I'm going to the hardware store..
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  #23  
Old 2006-05-14, 16:38
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Originally Posted by Soulinsane
Well, this project has taken a little longer then I wanted it to because I kept coming across other issues to fix. I'll explain.

While insulating, rewiring, and making the cab air tight I was ( as I thought ) nearly finished. I was measuring and cutting foam for the back board panel of the cab and measuring the hole to cut for the phone jack plate when... I noticed I could see some light though the jacks


What is the point of a air tight cab if air escapes via the jacks?

I stopped, thought, and decided to fixe the problem by building a small sealed box around the jack plate. I built the box using soild pine, screws, wood glue, used chalking sealant on the inside corners, and let set for a day. Today I drilled holes and ran the wires through and use some chalking sealant around them. I secured the box around the jack panel using predrilled screws, used high dencity seals under the base and I also added chalking sealant around the base for good measure To finish I glued insulation to the outside of the little box and it is now all drying.

Tomarrow, I will inspect everything again and hopfully get to put the back panel on my cab and be amazed its new tone.

Edit: I have been reading lately that you can line all surfaces but the speaker baffle of your cab and stuff the thing half full of foam to flaten your bass freq peaks ( boomy sounds ) and lower the freq range. I've only just lined my surfaces. I will try stuffinf extra foam in later and see if that changes anything. Seems lots of people do it do tighten up their cabs.


Surely when you actually plug a lead into a cab, the 'hole' in the jack is no more?
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  #24  
Old 2006-05-14, 16:42
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Well, its not air tight. Lets say the air pops the jack out of the cab and burns your output transformer without a load.
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  #25  
Old 2006-05-15, 12:24
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Hmm im very very interested in doing this. I just got a brand new marshall 1960a. Im wondering if its even worth it to do it to a brand new cab, id imagine it already has good construction/is still in perfect condition. I am looking to tighten up the bass in my tone and make it a little more punchy.
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  #26  
Old 2006-05-15, 14:24
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My cab was constructed strong structurally, as most cabs are, but it didn't hurt to add a few wood screws in the bracing for added strength and rigidity.

My concern with cabs, new and used, is that speakers may not be mounted right ( bolted through the baffle properly ), wiring quality is normally under grade, and they are not sealed as air tight as they could be. Ported or not, the cab corners, seals, and speakers need to be air tight for best speaker responce. As for as adding foam, that insures a better sounding bass freqs in a cab and clears everything up imo. Just keep it away from the port holes or you will blow the foam out while playing; from what I hear.

I think I know why most cabs don't normally come with such attention to detail such as being sealed really good, better wire, and foam. Good cabs are made well enough and quickly to turn a profit.

It takes a lot more time to go over every corner with a caulking gun and wait a day for it to dry, not to mention adding seals around the handles, back panel, and isolating the jack plate like I did. Speakers have their own seals so as long as they are mounted correctly then they are sealed.

Adding foam also takes time. Every part has to be measured, cut, glued, and given a day to dry.

Adding better wiring wasn't a big deal for me but the bigger gauge wire is harder to work with then the smaller stuff and cost much more. I could see this being a cost problem if I were wiring 500 cabs. I only need 10' for one cab but for 500 cabs I would need 5,000'. 10 AWG copper is $0.40/ft X 5,000 = $2000. 18 AWG aluminum is $0.12 X 5,000 = $600.

See why a company will cut little corners on stuff like proper wiring, sealing, acoustic damping ( foam ), and even speaker mounting ( not really a problem on most quality cabs ). They they will build a soild product that looks nice and really is a nice cab but it isn't worth the extra investment ( time and materals cost extra money ) if it only means a smaller profit return on a slightly better sounding product.

I most cases, the the extra investment will only cause the product to cost more then what people are willing to pay, so companies just decide to keep cost as low as possible. There are cabs that are made with all this added attention to detail, but they also carry a heavy price tag. I found it is far chaeper to just put you own time into making your own cab a little better then paying someone else labor. Most cabs are built structurally good and are just a basic shell waiting to be refined and finished on the inside. Besides, its easy stuff to do by yourself. It does take lots of time and some detail, but its not like modding a tube amp or anything.
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Last edited by Soulinsane : 2006-05-15 at 14:27.
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  #27  
Old 2006-05-15, 14:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h4x5k8
Hmm im very very interested in doing this. I just got a brand new marshall 1960a. Im wondering if its even worth it to do it to a brand new cab, id imagine it already has good construction/is still in perfect condition. I am looking to tighten up the bass in my tone and make it a little more punchy.

main upgrades i'd suggest for a 1960a... upgrade the casters, ugrade the handles to metal ones, and upgrade the speaker wire to a thicker guage. this helps how tuff the cab is for the road, even upgrading the speaker cable to like 14 or 12 guage mogami stuff will give a slightly thicker and quicker bass response.
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  #28  
Old 2006-05-15, 15:23
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I need to make my own cables...but I'm kinda nervous because I'm not much with a saudering iron.

Where should I start as far as making my own mogami cables and jacks?

BTW, I'm also doing this same mod to my Marshall AVT 50 combo...since I use that the most when I practice...and I found quite a few places where air was escaping actually.

On top of the speaker cables, I want to make an angled 1/4'' input to the dual disconnects for the single speaker in that combo....gimme some insight dammmmit.


I also had an idea about somrething else.

Would using fasteners like these: SUPERLOCK FASTENERS be a good substitution for the rubber feet on my head?

I read somewhere about the vibration of the head affects the tone blah blah...but I'm not sure.
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You thought of mixing wheat flour with saturated fat, and putting it the resultant shit in a styrofoam cup. Shine on, you crazy dead yellow diamond.

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Last edited by philkilla : 2006-05-15 at 16:48.
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  #29  
Old 2006-05-15, 17:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philkilla
I need to make my own cables...but I'm kinda nervous because I'm not much with a saudering iron.

Where should I start as far as making my own mogami cables and jacks?

BTW, I'm also doing this same mod to my Marshall AVT 50 combo...since I use that the most when I practice...and I found quite a few places where air was escaping actually.


Soldering isn't really hard but it does require a little practice. It's kinda like an art. Doing it correctly just means being fast enough to make the joint neatly and remove the heat. Where most people go wrong is holding the iron to the solder and componants to long and burning everything up into sludge. I'm sure you can find some guides online, but here is my advice.

For all music electronics you will want high silver content flux core electronic solder ( only cost a few dollors more )and at least a 15W soldering iron. You will need a damp sponge to clean the iron tip and maybe some desolding braid if you plan on removing solder from joints at any time. You might also what some gator clamps to help hold things in place while solding and to absorb some of the heat. When first soldering melt a little solder on the tip of the iron to keep it cured even before trying to make a joint. This is called tinning. Do this once every 15 minutes or so while the iron is hot. Do this just before you are about to make a joint but then wipe the tip with the damp spong. It will hiss a bit and wipe the access off the tip. This will keep your iron tip fuctional for much longer.

Before you ever connect wire to metal it is a really good ideal to prep both the wire and the metal by tinning them a bit. To tin a wire, make sure the stands are twisted tight and at the desired shape ( strait, curved, ect ) and hold the tip of the wire to the tip of the hot iron for a few seconds to heat up. With your other hand slowly add solder where the iron and wire touch until you see hot solder wick up the wire stands. Remove the solder and wire at the same time. Your done tinning a wire end. Repeat as desied. This insures that the wire has consistant low resistance and an excellent wire-to-metal solder joining later.

To tin a metal surface, or lets say a 1/4 connector, you first start by making sure your iron tip is tinned and cleaned. Next you put the tip of the hot iron to the metal surface where a solder joint will take place for a few seconds. Then add solder so that a small bead or film forms on the surface. You are done, remove heat quickly. Repeat as desired. This insures good joint-to-metal joining later.

Now to solder. Make sure everything is lined up and staged. Use clamps to hold everything in place. There should be no gap between the wire surface and the tinned metal surface, but make sure you don't end up soldering your clamps in the joint too Bring the iron tip and the solder to the contact at about the same time and add as much solder as need to make a small soild joint. Remove the iron and solder and you done.

Sounds easy but it takes a little practice. Here are some guide lines:

"Bigger the blob ISN'T better the job." In fact, large solder joints act as a resistor instead of a conductor.

The solder joint should have a smooth shiny surface. If it is dull and lumpy then it has been over heated and is now high resistance sludge.

Solder fumes are toxic so have a window open and a fan blowing away from you. Also, Solder is made of lead so wash you damned hands after handling it.

Solder irons got hot enough to burn your house down. It has happened to careless people.

Practice soldering a few times before you tackle making your nice guitar and speaker cables. You can always cut few inches off a cable but a ruined connector, pot, or switch cost to replace.

And my favorate, DO NOT FORGET TO PUT THE CONNECTOR SLEEVE ON THE CABLE BEFORE YOU SOLDER THE JACK, like I do 1/10 connectors. You will have to desolder the jack and do it agian. At least I get my practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philkilla
On top of the speaker cables, I want to make an angled 1/4'' input to the dual disconnects for the single speaker in that combo....gimme some insight dammmmit.


Are you talking about making it so the speaker in you combo amp can also be a cab another amp can plug into?
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Last edited by Soulinsane : 2006-05-15 at 17:28.
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  #30  
Old 2006-05-15, 18:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulinsane
Are you talking about making it so the speaker in you combo amp can also be a cab another amp can plug into?



No, I just wanted to make some mogami cables for my amps, and my combo...but I changed my mind about the combo. Its going to be airtight very soon.


What about the superlock fastener idea?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by far_beyond_sane
You thought of mixing wheat flour with saturated fat, and putting it the resultant shit in a styrofoam cup. Shine on, you crazy dead yellow diamond.

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  #31  
Old 2006-05-15, 18:31
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You should just need some good thick rubber feet for you amp head but then again... How much vibration is bring transfered to the head? I didn't realize it affected the amps proformance that much. By super locking your amp head to the cab you will only make vibration worse. Those things look like velcrow straps.
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Last edited by Soulinsane : 2006-05-15 at 18:34.
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  #32  
Old 2006-05-15, 21:07
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progress being made:

Default

Caulking

Foam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by far_beyond_sane
You thought of mixing wheat flour with saturated fat, and putting it the resultant shit in a styrofoam cup. Shine on, you crazy dead yellow diamond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmansley
May the best cunt win.
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  #33  
Old 2006-05-15, 21:33
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I'm curious about this,

If my cabinet were to not have the ability to take off the back, meaning its a solid piece what does one think about the difference in sound this makes vs. a back that is removeable?
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  #34  
Old 2006-05-15, 22:08
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the mod made a nice improvement in my marshall AVT 50. It actually HAS bass response now. I run my pod through it...funny thing is the normal amp distortion isn't so loud now...but oh well...I don't use it anyway.

I cna't wait to hear my cab though..its going to be MONSTEROUS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by far_beyond_sane
You thought of mixing wheat flour with saturated fat, and putting it the resultant shit in a styrofoam cup. Shine on, you crazy dead yellow diamond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmansley
May the best cunt win.
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  #35  
Old 2006-05-16, 05:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philkilla
the mod made a nice improvement in my marshall AVT 50. It actually HAS bass response now. I run my pod through it...funny thing is the normal amp distortion isn't so loud now...but oh well...I don't use it anyway.

I cna't wait to hear my cab though..its going to be MONSTEROUS


The amps distortion might sound that way because the speaker isn't flabbing around like before, but as long as it sounds good then go with it The 4x12 cab looks nice too. Did you get bigger wire for it while at the hardware store? They should have the wire and the female connector ends there too. All you do is strip a little bit of wire on the end and crimp the connector on the wire with a pair of pliers. No soldering required. Then you just just slide the connector onto the speaker like the ones already there. If the new connectors seem loose then pull them back off the speaker and give them a little sqeeze until they slide on the speaker nice and tight. Better wire really helps a cab sound better too. Just make sure the wire is copper standed and at least 16 awg or lower. I used 10 awg and the shit is huge but the mogami speaker cable from the amp to the cab has 12 awg inside it, so I wanted at least 12 awg or better in the cab.
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  #36  
Old 2006-05-16, 05:56
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Originally Posted by tmfreak
I'm curious about this,

If my cabinet were to not have the ability to take off the back, meaning its a solid piece what does one think about the difference in sound this makes vs. a back that is removeable?


You might have front loaded speakers in a soild box constructed cab. This is a good thing really. It makes doing this modification a bit of a bitch because you have to take the speakers out and work through the holes but the ideal is you get a better sealed cab then back panel access cabs.
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  #37  
Old 2006-05-16, 09:49
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Yah, I used 12 AWG guage wire. You can notice also the quick disconnects are nasty yellow instead of red too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by far_beyond_sane
You thought of mixing wheat flour with saturated fat, and putting it the resultant shit in a styrofoam cup. Shine on, you crazy dead yellow diamond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmansley
May the best cunt win.
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  #38  
Old 2006-05-16, 10:43
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Oh, lol I didn't notice that before. Awsome job. You got it back together and played it yet?
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  #39  
Old 2006-05-16, 12:20
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not yet. I'm having problems with the female connector where the 1/4'' jack plugs in the back. There is a board on it with 4 pins...my friend though is great with electronics, and he took the pins out and is going to sauder the wires direct from there and they will simply plug into the speakers.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by far_beyond_sane
You thought of mixing wheat flour with saturated fat, and putting it the resultant shit in a styrofoam cup. Shine on, you crazy dead yellow diamond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmansley
May the best cunt win.
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  #40  
Old 2006-05-16, 14:38
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Good deal. It will make a better connection that way. Just FYI in case the issue comes up, the + speaker wire attaches to the jack tip, and the - speaker wire to the jack ring
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