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  #41  
Old 2006-04-12, 19:06
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oh god this thread just makes my head hurt even thinking about it

the amount of pointless bickering that occurs in this will be on a far greater level than any internet flaming that occurs

like it or leave it, just live by that
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  #42  
Old 2006-04-12, 19:38
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What bickering? This thread is calling for opinions.
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  #43  
Old 2006-04-12, 20:14
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Technicality and skill.
I love listening to technical stuff like Steve Vai in the background while playing pool or poker. But sometimes it does get overwhelming and repetitive, especially when the songs based on speed...
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  #44  
Old 2006-04-12, 21:23
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Every metal band that I've been introduced to by my friends I have fallen in love with. It didn't matter if they were a fast pace band with complex riffs like Cannibal Corpse or Lamb of God, or if they are simple chord strumming riffs like a few of Rammstein's songs or Korn. It didn't matter if the bassist was slapping the shit out of his bass, making fast bass grooves, or if he just emphasized the root note in a progression of chords and notes. It didn't matter if the drummer was playing 255 bpm blast beats all over his kit or just playing a simple 4/4 rock beat. I also forget the fact that there are alot of bands that sound alike. What matters to me is what they take from their heart and put into the music.

This one drummer at this one clinic I went to for percussionist told us all that you could put 30 drummers behind a kit, have them all play the same 4/4 beat, and each one would sound different. It wasn't because of how the kit was tuned, what sticks the drummer used, if he played heels up or down, or if he played right-handed or open handed. It was because of the energy and the feeling he put into it.

When I listen to music, I don't listen for the complexity or how the song is composed. I listen for the musician's heart; their hate, their anger, their love, their happiness. If a musician didn't have these things, the music would be dead to me.

So am I in favor of technical and complex riffs? Only if there's feeling to it. That's all that matters to me.
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  #45  
Old 2006-04-12, 21:24
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I was thinking that are these 'technical' songs really that technical, as just opposed to speedy? I mean it's just riffs played like any other riff, but all over the place and fast. I guess of course speed is a technique so saying that it's not technical it's just fast is wrong because if speed is a technique it automatically technical. But like really when I thought about it the songs aren't relly technical, just complicated riffing done fast. I dunno, cos like technical to me would be fingerpicking an arpeggio [is that called hybrid picking or something], that would require more technique, but not necessarily EXTREME speed. I dunno I just thought about it this way when I was musing on it last night in bed

Disregard this post if you think it's dumb, it was just an idea I thought I'd put out there.
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  #46  
Old 2006-04-12, 21:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transient
oh god this thread just makes my head hurt even thinking about it

the amount of pointless bickering that occurs in this will be on a far greater level than any internet flaming that occurs

like it or leave it, just live by that


9700 posts, and 2000 of them are "OMG TEH THREADZ GAY1".

Have you considered that your presence in a thread makes it twice as gay as previously, and opening your mouth to complain about said gay is just a big silly-poos?

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I like this.
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  #47  
Old 2006-04-12, 22:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CompelledToLacerate
This one drummer at this one clinic I went to for percussionist told us all that you could put 30 drummers behind a kit, have them all play the same 4/4 beat, and each one would sound different. It wasn't because of how the kit was tuned, what sticks the drummer used, if he played heels up or down, or if he played right-handed or open handed. It was because of the energy and the feeling he put into it.

That cool, I never thought of it that way... And your right! Thats what seperates the average from the "standout" players, that's awsome

Last edited by Fliggunsnov : 2006-04-12 at 22:06.
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  #48  
Old 2006-04-13, 11:01
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I agree with transient

Metaltabs isnt necessarily the best place sometimes for discussions or the sharing of opinions. Neither is the internet. Because its great in theory, in practice, you always get people who feel they have to shit on other people from a height just because they can. gg.

My opinion on technicality, having got that out the way, is, the same as I believe others; if it sounds good, then yeah. Dont matter about level of difficulty. Some people naturally write things more technical than others. its just the way it is, but its all about knowing why your doin something I reckon. Doin it for a reason, not just for the sake of it. Its all cool. Which, comes back round to CTL's point, about the fact that people put their soul in to it, is when it works best. If you write what you naturally do, then thats an extension of that idea.
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  #49  
Old 2006-04-13, 13:45
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I really like technicality:

SPEED
HARMONIES
FAST RIFFING
Taking advantage of each string
and stuff like this.

IMO this kind of stuff mixed with some sweet brutality is what makes me like metal:Bring back the bomb-GWAR (u have to listen to it)

also anything by DEATH. BODOM. Or MASTODON

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  #50  
Old 2006-04-13, 14:28
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On the internet you can be as offensive or straight-up as you want with your opinion without fear of violent retribution. Good or bad thing?

My views on technicality is that it is mostly irrelevant to the sounds I hear (besides certain technicalities used to create unusual sounds ie Obscura), but it does have an impact upon live performance and the whole involvement.
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  #51  
Old 2006-04-13, 15:07
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look, if it doesnt make knots out of my fingers, it isnt worth two shits....
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  #52  
Old 2006-04-13, 18:22
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I like that a major portion of the bickering in this thread is a complaint about the amount of bickering somebody expects there to be. This satisfies me.

The internet isn't a good place to discuss anything unless people act as though they can be held accountable for their actions. If more people would acknowledge that it's a place that potentially allows minds from all over the world to meet and not just some gay cyber-place for them to fuck around on, we'd have a lot of good discussions here. And the way to do that is to act that way yourself and attempt to have these discussions, since we have the means to do so. Not to say 'All these attempts go bad so I'll contribute nothing more than a complaint about them rather than attempt to make them go well.' That's just crap.
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  #53  
Old 2006-04-13, 19:26
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Shuddup, turkey. Remember it's the internet.

Much has been said so far. I'm dashing off to the gym, so I'll just throw something extra and fun into the mix...

Technical metal, and especially tech-death these days, is the kind that the non-metal public really do not understand. It's not a matter of them liking it - they've never heard it, or of it. If you've ever had the displeasure of playing a good later-era Death or Cynic song for someone, you'll know what I mean.

You put it on, thinking they'll be impressed at the very least, and then find out that they're completely immune to it. They just don't understand what's going on. It requires a level of engagement with the music that people who aren't balls-deep in music culture don't usually have.

Most people are pretty unconscious as to the purpose for music. I remember thinking how angry Rage Against The Machine would be if they walked among their fans... they think they're starting a revolution and instead they're playing the soundtrack to the childhood of the next generation of accountants. They were popular because they had a seriously catchy sound. Politically, no-one gave a shit, or even read the words.

Also, remember that Yngwie Malmsteen has produced nothing but terrible music. Really. Terrible. Music.

Every person I've made listen to the Sound of Perseverance has loved it. Not as much as me, of course, but enough to ask me to give them a burned copy.
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  #54  
Old 2006-04-13, 21:20
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Every person I've made listen to the Sound of Perseverance has loved it. Not as much as me, of course, but enough to ask me to give them a burned copy.



No guilt! It feeds in plain sight!! Spirit......CRUSHER!!!!!!!
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  #55  
Old 2006-04-14, 04:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powersofterror
Every person I've made listen to the Sound of Perseverance has loved it. Not as much as me, of course, but enough to ask me to give them a burned copy.

That is an accomplishment to be proud of. Well done.
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  #56  
Old 2006-04-14, 09:24
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If its good, its good. If its just technicality for the hell of being technical, then usually its just gay.

Example:
Martyr - Great band, impossibly technical.
Opeth - Not very technical, but has its little complicated bits every now and then. Amazing riffs and leads non the less.
Slayer - Not technical. But still owns.

Example 2:
Cannibal Corpse's Frantic Disembowelment vs Time to Kill Is Now. Personally, I like Time To Kill better, and (obviously) its the lesser of the 2 in technicallity. I still love Frantic though.
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  #57  
Old 2006-04-14, 09:39
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Anyone can be capable of expressing emotion, and anyone can be capable of just making noise. I can't remember Shawn Lane playing something that DID'NT make my jaw drop, yet everything was just completely wet with emotion. And as far as people being minimalistc and having no depth, I only need to point to nu-metal.

Yes, Frantic Disembowelment is'nt one of CC's better songs per se, but its strange to see people in a roundabout way deducting more points for creativity because the song happens to be one of their toughest. That's just the way the riffs were written. Something that's mediocre but technical should'nt be judged any more harshly than something that's mediocre and simple, IMO.

Last edited by John Holland : 2006-04-14 at 09:47.
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  #58  
Old 2006-04-14, 12:18
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I think Frantic Disembowlment gets such scorn heaped on it because it has so many people trying to deny that it's mediocre. Also because Pat has stated that he basically wrote it with the goal of being as technical as possible in mind. A lot of stuff that's mediocre and simple isn't mediocre because the people writing it decided to focus on simplicity at the expense of all else. Whereas a lot of stuff that's both technically dazzling and poorly written is that way because the songwriter decided to focus on the former at the expense of good writing.

A useful exception to this can be found in Metallica 90's output, which they've specifically stated was written with simplicity as a mandate before all else because of their experience writing ...And Justice for All. So we can say that it's not only mediocre and simple, but that its mediocrity is a function of its insistence on simplicity. Now, last I checked, the number of words given to excoriating Metallica post-1990 outnumber those spent bagging on Frantic Disembowlment by an immense margin. I don't think it's even close to a contest. In fact, there are probably more words devoted to ripping Metallica apart for its last 16 years as a band than to worrying about recent trends towards technicality in death metal.

But of course we're not going to write any more about Metallica here. We're just going to quietly acknowledge that we do vent our spleens at musicians who deliberately play below their level for the wrong reasons as much or more than at those who play the hardest things they can come up with for the wrong reasons.

I should end by noting that I actually do like complex music and wish there were more good instances of it. Since a part of achieving that is to suffer a lot of crap to be written, I'm more or less obliged to find the output of these poorly written, technically complex albums tolerable. I'm just not obliged to find the audience acceptance of them tolerable.
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  #59  
Old 2006-04-14, 13:23
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I believe that music is energy. It flows. Technicality is really just a commodity. I will forever have more respect for the Sex Pistols than say...Necrophagist anyday. Not because Necrophagist is bad, but it's taking excess to excess. It's masturbation.
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  #60  
Old 2006-04-14, 17:13
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Now since I have once or twice talked about Frantic Disembowelment and my dislike of it, I'm going to do so now. Not to further reinforce the fact that I don't like the song, but it may come out that way. I'll just say the song has no groove that I can enjoy in even part of the song. I don't know if you guys think of the songs on anywhere near the same level, but I'll compare it to Burning Pits of the Duat by Nile.

FD basically sounds to me like a bunch of random notes thrown together. I've looked at the tab, I've seen them play it, I know it isn't, but that's what it sounds like, and I don't like it. BP is also a pretty damn fast song, but to my ears it's "decipherable" and has a couple really catchy parts to it. Both of them are pretty fast songs, I haven't tried to learn either, but probably can't play either one. But I like Pits infinitely more.

Sometimes I like a chaotic and random approach in a song. I like some songs by Cephalic Carnage purely for that reason, but there's a point at which I just don't want to have to think about the music anymore, and so I stop listening to it. I'm pretty sure that's why I only listen to about half of Kill right now, and don't like it nearly as much as I liked the Wretched Spawn. Of course I also hated all but two songs on Wretched Spawn until I listened to it a bunch of times, so it may change.

I read on the CC forums that Jack wrote a lot of their more repetitive songs, and that without him, there won't be as many, so I think that may be why Kill doesn't appeal to me as much.

Fuck, usually this far in a post I'm on a totally different topic and forgot why I decided to post in the first place... I'm about at that spot again, so I'll shut up now.
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