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  #21  
Old 2006-04-11, 20:00
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Well considering you just said Myspace was for faggots right after i said I had a myspace.. i thought i should..
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  #22  
Old 2006-04-11, 20:29
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Its a great addition to well written music, but writing well should always come first. Bands tend to focus on tech work too much and focus less on creative and expressive song writing.
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  #23  
Old 2006-04-11, 20:34
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far_beyond_sane far_beyond_sane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defiant Mind
Well considering you just said Myspace was for faggots right after i said I had a myspace.. i thought i should..


Shuddup, turkey. Remember it's the internet.

Much has been said so far. I'm dashing off to the gym, so I'll just throw something extra and fun into the mix...

Technical metal, and especially tech-death these days, is the kind that the non-metal public really do not understand. It's not a matter of them liking it - they've never heard it, or of it. If you've ever had the displeasure of playing a good later-era Death or Cynic song for someone, you'll know what I mean.

You put it on, thinking they'll be impressed at the very least, and then find out that they're completely immune to it. They just don't understand what's going on. It requires a level of engagement with the music that people who aren't balls-deep in music culture don't usually have.

Most people are pretty unconscious as to the purpose for music. I remember thinking how angry Rage Against The Machine would be if they walked among their fans... they think they're starting a revolution and instead they're playing the soundtrack to the childhood of the next generation of accountants. They were popular because they had a seriously catchy sound. Politically, no-one gave a shit, or even read the words.

Also, remember that Yngwie Malmsteen has produced nothing but terrible music. Really. Terrible. Music.
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  #24  
Old 2006-04-11, 21:48
Doktorskell Doktorskell is offline
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Originally Posted by far_beyond_sane
Also, remember that Yngwie Malmsteen has produced nothing but terrible music. Really. Terrible. Music.


Must be why he has sold so many records and is regarded as one of the greatest living guitar players.

Whether you like his music or not. He can play guitar good.
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  #25  
Old 2006-04-11, 22:34
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You gamma-minus fucktards
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Originally Posted by Doktorskell
Must be why he has sold so many records and is regarded as one of the greatest living guitar players.


Of course. Record sales are always a guarantee of top quality music. We should not argue about the virtue of music if it sells.

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Whether you like his music or not. He can play guitar good.


Right. Because we're not talking about a posited difference between TECHNICAL MUSIC and GOOD MUSIC, are we?

Also, your grammar good is. Structured the well. Not obviously a stupid.

Git.
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  #26  
Old 2006-04-11, 23:00
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Hahaha.

Most all of the "tech players" and shredders are great at their instruments but that dosen't mean they can produce good music. A painter/sketch artist can be fantastic with a pen or brush but that dosen't mean they can create anything meaningful or original. Art is easy to hide in.
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Last edited by Darko : 2006-04-11 at 23:02.
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  #27  
Old 2006-04-11, 23:51
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Yngwie is the most talented least creative guitarist in the music industry. There is nobody else that can hold so much talent, yet produce such shit at the same time as he does.
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  #28  
Old 2006-04-12, 00:40
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Technical, not technical, as long as it sounds good, songwriting before technicality though.
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  #29  
Old 2006-04-12, 01:14
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I enjoy technical music...but yes, I hate when it's over done..that's why I tend to learn away from the more BrTOoL bandz.


GO MELODIC/FOLK/CELTIC/VIKING/TROLL/CANADIAN HISTORIAN DEATH METAL.

I'm going to create a band which is solely about Canadian History...it will be called...


"THE RED RIVER REBELLION!!"

Which is also named after the conflict about myself breaking up with a girl who like to be eaten out on her period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_River_Rebellion
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  #30  
Old 2006-04-12, 01:27
Doktorskell Doktorskell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by far_beyond_sane
Of course. Record sales are always a guarantee of top quality music. We should not argue about the virtue of music if it sells.



Right. Because we're not talking about a posited difference between TECHNICAL MUSIC and GOOD MUSIC, are we?

Also, your grammar good is. Structured the well. Not obviously a stupid.

Git.


Of course sales dont automaticaly mean good. I mean look at U2 for example.

Oh and picking at my grammar. I type how i speak. I see you have noticed idiosynchrasies in my speech patterns
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  #31  
Old 2006-04-12, 03:30
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Originally Posted by BassBehemoth
I'm going to create a band which is solely about Canadian History


10 songs about Wayne Gretzky, then.
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  #32  
Old 2006-04-12, 03:47
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far_beyond_sane far_beyond_sane is offline
You gamma-minus fucktards
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doktorskell
Oh and picking at my grammar. I type how i speak.


Badly?
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far_beyond_sane - contributing to the moral decay of your children since 1982

"It was some kind of evolutionary glitch, she figured; no different than the other unreasonable side effects of consciousness and emotion, like religion and rap music."
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  #33  
Old 2006-04-12, 04:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ten Ton Alien
10 songs about Wayne Gretzky, then.


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  #34  
Old 2006-04-12, 05:36
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this is why i write with an acoustic, its like a crucible of what works for me. if i write something on an electric<my acoustic is has a built in pick-up, plug this thing in and add the distortion feature on the practice amp sounds exactly like an electric> and it sounds like shit unplugged or if it just sounds like im practicing a scale its scraped. this is a way to teach myself songwriting, not just showy technique. im writing really minimalist doom stuff, so this works for me. i understand that high speed death metal wont ever transition well on an acoustic. it'll just sound like high speed scales

but thats just my way, not a fundamental rule i believe everyone should follow. this is because im more concerned with writing interesting music rythmically instead of technically. as far as my drumming in this band im comming to understand using the double kick which is an entirely new approach for me, and trying to be more creative with slow time schemes. fast is my forte so ill playing grind soon enough again

there is a place in my interest of music where i enjoy completely over the top technical, absurd music, where all rules of "how" and "why" are abandoned. if its the the bands intention or not. i really take interest in bands pushing the envelope on experimenting with blastbeat based music, whether its necrophagist,nile or the locust,dillinger escape plan. the reason for this is its relatively new and for a drummer the approach one takes is on level with the jazz greats in terms of skill. it hardly resembles back beat based music in terms of percussion, drumming had been so marginalized in terms of expression with rock and roll as far as the medium, which is the beats, not the fills and drumsolos. maybe this is just the musician in me speaking, but i think this stuff definately has a place beyond just what musicians want to hear.
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  #35  
Old 2006-04-12, 07:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassBehemoth
I enjoy technical music...but yes, I hate when it's over done..that's why I tend to learn away from the more BrTOoL bandz.


GO MELODIC/FOLK/CELTIC/VIKING/TROLL/CANADIAN HISTORIAN DEATH METAL.

I'm going to create a band which is solely about Canadian History...it will be called...


"THE RED RIVER REBELLION!!"

Which is also named after the conflict about myself breaking up with a girl who like to be eaten out on her period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_River_Rebellion

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  #36  
Old 2006-04-12, 09:19
mortpayne mortpayne is offline
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I like what one of the guitarists said from Meshuggah (and I'm paraphrasing). "I'm an anti-guitar hero, I don't like all of those guys that show off like Malmsteen and Vai and whatnot, they're all about being guitarists instead of being bands." I agree with that -- the band as a whole should come first, not the specific instruments. I also agree with most of the posts here. It definitely takes moderation and is important but not over the other more basic aspects of songwriting.

And FBS for sure said it right about the average Joe listening to technical death metal. I've played some for some friends of mine before, and it was always the same reaction of "what's he saying? It's just a bunch of noise". Luckily, I think people can vaguely grasp the idea if you try. Used to, my dad was against all metal because he thought it was nothing more than angry trash. I sat down and explained to him why it musically attracts me and how it's very challenging, and he understood. At least more than he did. The best way to change one of the non-believers, though, is to set down with them with a guitar and try to teach them how to play one of the songs. Of course, for most non-musicians, you would'nt even have to stretch into the most complex side of metal to boggle their minds.
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  #37  
Old 2006-04-12, 10:16
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being technical is of no importance to me. i couldnt really say which bands are technical, and which arnt. its not something i care about. i hate "3 chord" black and death metal, not because its not technical, but because its boring. what is the point of listening to a whole song that doesnt change much from beginning to end. you might as well just skip to the next after it starts repeating again. im not saying i do that with what i listen to, but i think its just cheap and lazy to repeat a whole riff section more than 4 or 5 times. so far i dont like the death metal bands ive heard to be considered "technical" because when i hear it, its just a mess of notes that mean nothing to me. even if it werent on such low and random notes, i still dont think it would sound appealing. and i dont care how hard it is to play. its like if someone paints the ugliest picture thats 100ft by 100ft, im sure its hard to paint that, but that doesnt make it good. speed isnt automatically good. i hate solos that are there just for the sake of being a solo. for ex. I like Cryptopsy, but i really dont like their solos, just sounds like a bunch of nothing there only to prove that they can do it. that goes for many, many other similar bands ive heard. lets take an In Flames solo for example now: how about the solo on The Hive, thats one of my favorite solos. its lengthy, great notes, and has an emotional sort of depth to it as well as speed and skill. im aware that its not that hard to play... exaclty, it doesnt have to be. Amon Amarth's riffs are generally easy, but they are still shitloads more interesting and appealing than showing me how fast you can move your fingers on a guitar.
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  #38  
Old 2006-04-12, 11:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by far_beyond_sane
Technical metal, and especially tech-death these days, is the kind that the non-metal public really do not understand. It's not a matter of them liking it - they've never heard it, or of it. If you've ever had the displeasure of playing a good later-era Death or Cynic song for someone, you'll know what I mean.

You put it on, thinking they'll be impressed at the very least, and then find out that they're completely immune to it. They just don't understand what's going on. It requires a level of engagement with the music that people who aren't balls-deep in music culture don't usually have.

That reminds me of one time when I was driving around with my brother-in-law and I was playing a bunch of Death for him and he actually enjoyed it, I was shocked actually... This is the same dude who I got hooked on this one Iniquity song, Desiderated Profligacy, he played that song like 30 times that same day talking about how great the song was, his favorite band is Lit by the way... Anyway, back to the main subject I would say technicality is pointless, you should just play and not think about what you're doing, that's how the best music is written I think.. I think sometimes being technical could pay off, but most of these super technical death metal bands are boring as fuck, if I can listen to a song and not care if it's complicated or not then that's all that matters... Cool thread by the way....
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  #39  
Old 2006-04-12, 14:56
Casketcrusher Casketcrusher is offline
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Well I may as well put in my two cents worth.

As most of you guys know I am more for the catchy, groove, thrashy grind type stuff.
I don't mind technical stuff when it's done properly. Like no offense to Cannibal Corpse fasn but I really don't think they are that great. I loved their old Chris Barnes era and some of the George Fisher era. Now it just seems (esspecially with Pat) that their just trying to make their music technical for the sake of be technical. I don't find their music technical. Anyone can write a few random diminished notes and throw in trills or tapping once in a while. Yes it is hard to play but it's not hard to write. Pat even said he writes challenging songs or songs that are difficult for him to play. But why? That's not what it's about. Soon every song sounds the same.Cannibal Corpse and Suffocation have become sort of a cliché of themselves. Like when the genral public think of "Death Metal" they think a guy growling, pounding drums, and guitars that just hit random notes. Well I can't really prove them wrong with CC or Suffo or Vile or whatever.

Now Cryptopsy,Dying Fetus, Nile and Necrophagist I love. Why? Because they actually can play insanly technical but yet still make it sound nice and have melodies and stuff. Their songs follow a pattern. They can be both brutal and beautiful at the same time. With Cannibal Corpse (new era) or Suffocation or Vile or Severed Savior and what not is just trying to sound as technical as possible. To them music is a big contest to see who can blast beat the fastest or how many notes can you throw in a song. That's not what music is about. Music is about having fun and enjoying what you play not trying to outdue everyone else.

There are tons of bands out there that can play as fast as anyone else but they don't have to. Because if they did they would sound like everyone else.

To wrap it up: I think if your going to be technical do so but make sure you are writting actual music and not just showing off every song. The most technical METAL stuff I listen to is the bands I mentiond above. But if I really want to just play balls out or listen to some really technical stuff then I will listen to Steve Vai or Racer X. Because those guys are insane at guitar but they can write songs.
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  #40  
Old 2006-04-12, 16:19
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I sometimes feel technical deathmetal is becoming the next shred metal..

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