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  #81  
Old 2005-11-08, 17:27
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Tattered Tattered is offline
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Oh sorry mate, threw me off a bit, use Quote next time

I can play John coltranes - Giant Steps, this baby helped me out a lot - http://www.heplaysjazz.btinternet.co.uk/giants.html, Click play when loaded..
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  #82  
Old 2005-11-08, 18:30
madtrixcerenzia madtrixcerenzia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxadam
Try improvising over a jazz song, or play Giant Steps by Coltrane, WELL. There is NO ONE on this forum that can do that. Not one, and ill stand by it.

Improvising over a jazz song is one of the easier things to do, once an established repertoire of modes, classic jazz chord progressions, etc, are understood. Listen to Marshall's Pat Metheny Jams, he covers this, with TECHNIQUE. Are you an expert on Marshall, or are you automatically discrediting him because you saw ONE video and didn't like it.

Bottom line is this: DEAD's point is about the fact that there will always remain unknowns out there who are better, better than you, better than me, and better than all of our heros.



Yeah, there are people out there that are good, but not the people you guys say. And not only that, as you get better, you realize that everybody is on the same level, but are only different in their creativety.

And BULLSHIT to all of you who said that stuff about jazz. Yeah, its easy to play the melody, the chords; a little harder to play the melody in the highest voice of the chords. (I am sure this is what you are referring to when you say you can play it) But none of you guys can play it the way its supposed to be played. Jazz is almost completely about improv. If you think there's not degrees of improv, then your retarded. Go ahead and try playing giant steps for a jazz dude. You WILL make a fool of yourself. You guys are all making amateur opinions on this. You guys all say alot of things are opinionated, but you guys need to realize its TO A DEGREE.

And guys: MARSHALL IS NOT GOD. He sucks. He has potential to be good, but you have no reason to talk or even begin to believe you know what your saying if you think he compares to Vai and Holdsworth and others. He is terrible at improv and cant stay in rhythm or phrase for shit.
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  #83  
Old 2005-11-08, 21:10
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I saw a video of Marshall a couple of years ago. The Weiniawski paraphrase, and thought he had great technique. He does. No one is a guitar God. People that think there are guitar gods are people who daydream about being one themselves. Someone is always going to think that someone else who is phenomenal sucks. I've been around the block. I started studying jazz, chord inversions, tempo and key changes, a long time ago. It's not my cup of tea. I like technical harmony, mainly major third overtones and harmonizations. That is the stuff I like to play, therefore if I see or hear it, that's what I like. I don't like all of Marshall's stuff, but he's got impeccable technique. That I agree with. But I'm sure there's someone out there that might live in your hometown that no one has heard of that is better. That is the only thing that I believe for a fact. There is always someone better in something. I used to compete in martial arts, and believe me, there is always someone better. They might have a different fighting style, good technique, read opponents well, but it's all preference; what you like and what works for you.

Last edited by jaxadam : 2005-11-08 at 21:18.
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  #84  
Old 2005-11-08, 21:14
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QUOTE "And BULLSHIT to all of you who said that stuff about jazz. Yeah, its easy to play the melody, the chords; a little harder to play the melody in the highest voice of the chords. (I am sure this is what you are referring to when you say you can play it) But none of you guys can play it the way its supposed to be played. Jazz is almost completely about improv. If you think there's not degrees of improv, then your retarded. Go ahead and try playing giant steps for a jazz dude. You WILL make a fool of yourself. You guys are all making amateur opinions on this. You guys all say alot of things are opinionated, but you guys need to realize its TO A DEGREE."




And P.S. I've been playing guitar for 22 year, and went to Berklee College of Music, so I think I have some idea about what I'm talking about, and not an amateur opinion.

I also majored in theoretical physics, so I can also understand things TO A DEGREE.
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  #85  
Old 2005-11-08, 23:36
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I understand pharsing, I simply put it the way I did because people like to throw around words yet say nothing in an effort to prove a point, like you did. You failed to point out any specfics or show me the light of impeccable phrasing. And don't use Jason Becker as a cop-out, you don't need to be theory buff to be an amazing palyer.

Everyone is on the same level? What the fuck are you talking about. Again you ahev gone off rambling about creativity and songwriting, something which has no importance in this thread. This is a discussion solely about technical ability. Somthing I thought someone of average intelligence would be able pick up after 5 pages of the same replies why different fanboy bitches, and my consist replies trying explain this isnt about song writing.

BlackRoseImmortal, you are retarded. You have to be joking me that you don't see the flood of bullshit about Muhammed and how "technical" he is. And just shut up untill you can show me what modes, scales and song writing techniques Malmsteen copied from Paganini or Weiniawski. Please list songs. Thanks. That statement you made before strips any validity of you opinion. So go frolic amonst the other Muhammed lovers and remain in awe over his masterful use of the minor arpeggio, pedal tones, and neck-pickup homosexuality.

"You guys all say alot of things are opinionated, but you guys need to realize its TO A DEGREE."

Wow, good job of proving my point. That was my whole point this entire time. No matter what style of music you like or what you like in a guitar player, when dealing with sole technical capabilities, opinion doesnt matter.
And for a second time, show me someone who hybrid picks half as good as him.
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  #86  
Old 2005-11-09, 07:29
madtrixcerenzia madtrixcerenzia is offline
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Dead, you must realize that things like emotion and phrasing and songwriting can't be impeccable, because those are opinionated, to a degree. Its not as cut in stone like measureing speed or whose the fastest.

Jaxadam, or whatever, if you went to Berklee and did well there, i think your opinion would be different. I mentioned this thread to two college professors, one is the chair of guitar, of a VERY good music college for jazz at Duquesne. I also told my teacher who went to Berklee and opened for Steve Vai. I am done argueing cause this is just going to keep on going, but they all agreed with me about just about everything, and i even showed my teacher the Marshall guy and he thought he looked like an idiot. . .cause he is. If you go all over his site, hes such a knock of allan holdsworth wannabe, makes terrible mistakes CONTINUOUSlY on the piano stuff, and has little or no musicality on the guitar. I will stand by it, and u won't change it.

PS You can play guitar for 22 years, and go to Berklee and still not be a good guitarist or have a good view of music. I am NOT saying this is you, but not ruling it out cause no Berklee grad would be talking like you are.
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  #87  
Old 2005-11-09, 09:02
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You know what they used to say about Steve Vai when he went to Berklee? That he would never amount to shit. I think that just about should sum it all up.

Not that he sucks, I like him, but that people can have vastly different opinions, and sometimes those opinions (like him never amounting to shit) will be proven otherwise (like having one of the most popular signature guitars and sell out tours).

I didn't graduate from Berklee, I changed majors (and colleges) and ended up getting my degree in Physics. I would rather AFFORD to play the guitar than starve trying. Making it in the music industry is a longshot, for anybody.

Sorry if you already think I don't know what I'm talking about, but this is all I have to say: I think that Marshall has good technique. That's my opinion, and I'm sorry if you don't agree with it.

QUOTE "PS You can play guitar for 22 years, and go to Berklee and still not be a good guitarist or have a good view of music. I am NOT saying this is you, but not ruling it out cause no Berklee grad would be talking like you are"

So, without even knowing me or ever hearing me play, you automatically think I suck? I actually think you'd probably enjoy a lot of the stuff I play. I'll even play you some Autumn Leaves if that will make you happy. And how is it that I'm talking that no Berklee grad would talk like? Because I'm saying that I think Marshall has good technique? I think Joe Stump has good technique, too (one of my teachers at Berklee) but I like Marshall's better.

You're more full of assumptions and insults than facts. And I think it's a pretty bold statement on ANY forum to bet your ass that someone can't play something blah blah blah. It sounds like you've got a lot to learn, and hopefully one day you'll learn it.

Last edited by jaxadam : 2005-11-09 at 09:29.
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  #88  
Old 2005-11-09, 13:10
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Well, I went to a local music college and all the professors agred with me.
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  #89  
Old 2005-11-09, 15:17
madtrixcerenzia madtrixcerenzia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAD
Well, I went to a local music college and all the professors agred with me.


What did they agree with you on?


And i still bet what i said about Giant Steps. People are in their final years of college for jazz guitar and still can't play the piece CORRECT.

And you know what, i agree with you guys on one thing. I have been a little childish lately on my tone on my posts, so sorry for that.

Fact remains that Marshall has good speed and clarity (not on that Chopin Etude 1 for the piano though), but him not showing good rhythm, vibrato, and dynamics proves that his technique isnt all there because, although alot of people forget, those aspects are the most important part of technique.

The people at berklee hadn't adopted much else but jazz yet when he was there in the 70's, that comment was probably about his level on other styles of the guitar.

And Joe Stump teaching at Berklee is a joke. Hes good at what he does, but the reality of it is that hes gonna teach all the pure shredders, whereas the higher level students will be pursueing jazz. Its easy as hell to get to berklee and they have real low classes, so alot of people do go there, but still suck. (They still have very very high level classes too obviously)
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  #90  
Old 2005-11-09, 16:24
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jaxadam jaxadam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madtrixcerenzia

And you know what, i agree with you guys on one thing. I have been a little childish lately on my tone on my posts, so sorry for that.

And Joe Stump teaching at Berklee is a joke. Hes good at what he does, but the reality of it is that hes gonna teach all the pure shredders, whereas the higher level students will be pursueing jazz. Its easy as hell to get to berklee and they have real low classes, so alot of people do go there, but still suck. (They still have very very high level classes too obviously)




Well, I'm glad to see that this is taking a turn for the better.

There's nothing wrong with appreciating the techniques you are mentioning. I also agree that vibrato, bends, etc. are an integral aspect to adding elements to the song.

And you're right, there are all walks of life at Berklee. One guy there didn't even notice that I had a Les Paul copy, he thought it was the real deal. He was like "wow, nice guitar..." Um, yeah. Got it for a hundred bucks. Here, you can have it. <hands guitar to astounded Berklee alumni> ...

So let's all agree on something: There are all different aspects of musics that WE OURSELVES are going to think are important. And WE are allowed to appreciate these things. We may even have our own personal heroes that do these things for us, but until next time, there's always going to be someone else out there that's better. Hell, it may even be me!
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  #91  
Old 2005-12-07, 18:43
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i kno im new to this forum shit n stuff but this sounds like 1 douchbag who posted a thread just to piss people and to start an argument.and it seemed to have worked with all these people bitching about whos better at what and why. Think we should all just calm the fuck down and share a couple rounds
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  #92  
Old 2005-12-07, 19:02
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wats wrong with kicking dead horses???
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  #93  
Old 2005-12-08, 00:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destroyer_of_Senses
i kno im new to this forum shit n stuff but this sounds like 1 douchbag who posted a thread just to piss people and to start an argument.and it seemed to have worked with all these people bitching about whos better at what and why. Think we should all just calm the fuck down and share a couple rounds

You,are a tool.
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  #94  
Old 2005-12-08, 01:13
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Why did you have to revive this thread. I was finally glad to see it die, now your just throwing gas back on the fire!!!
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  #95  
Old 2005-12-08, 15:11
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Originally Posted by davie_gravy
Why did you have to revive this thread. I was finally glad to see it die, now your just throwing gas back on the fire!!!



honestly, fucking grave diggers
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