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  #1  
Old 2005-08-18, 22:54
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davie_gravy davie_gravy is offline
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Quadratonal Arpeggios

Hey,

Reading through a thread in the guitar forum, I noticed org mentioned this, can you org or someone else dissect the theory or explain what or how this phenomenon occurs?
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  #2  
Old 2005-08-19, 06:54
oRg oRg is offline
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I'll do my best to explain them.

Quadritonal Arpeggios are a set of 4 mutually exclusive triads. This means that none of these triads share the same note. They are used to get a very atonal sound. Buckethead uses them when he does the augmented tapping sequences. Other than Buckethead, I have never seen anyone really use them. They add a great deal of tension to a song.

The one pattern I posted was where there's two major triads and two minor triads. I used Cm, Dm, E, F#. Of course you can move these up and down the fretboard as long as the pattern stays the same.

Here's the Cm, Dm, E, F#(Gb) pattern.
Code:
e|-----|------|------|------| B|-----|------|------|------| G|-----|------|------|------| D|--5--|--7---|--9---|--11--| A|--6--|--8---|--11--|--13--| E|--8--|--10--|--12--|--14--|

C minor triad = C Eb G
D minor triad = D F A
E Major triad = E Ab B
F#(Gb) Major triad = F#(Gb) Bb Db

If you count the total number of notes, there is 12. Meaning this uses all 12 notes of western music. Which is makes sense since 4 triads x 3 note per triad = 12 notes.

I use them in a metal context to where I just play them over simple powerchords. In a jazz context you supposed to use them over altered dominant chords.

They're just a tool used for atonality. You can read more about them in Nicholas Slonimsky's Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns. It's a good book and there's lots of interesting ideas in it. Though the book isn't intended for novies you must be able to read standard sheet music, and everything is transcribed to the key of C.

Here's a more thorough explanation from a friend of mine who uses them in jazz.
Quote:
The following Quadritonal Arpeggios would sound best in the key of Am over an E7alt chord (E7#9, E7b5, E7#5#9, E13-9 etc.) Practice slowly with Band in the Box/Cakewalk with only 2 chords:
| Am | Am | E7#9 | E7#9 :||

Use the Quadritonal Patterns over the dominant chord only, but you can also start the effect early over the Am in the 2nd measure on the 3 or 4 beat.
Try to resolve the cycle to a chord tone in Am ( A C E) by playing a bluesy pattern or pentatonic/dorian pattern in Am to establish your tonal center again. Remember, your are playing outside the tonal center of Am to create an "atonal effect". These arpeggios will NOT sound bluesy/dorian. You are creating more tension than normal by going "outside" the tonal center and the trick is to resolve/release the tension correctly. At first these arpeggios will sound foreign, but try differnt starting notes, change the order of the triads, try to find the 1/2 step connections, rotate between ascending and descending, add some chromatics tones or upper lower neighbor tones. Just don't play them straight through as an exercise. Add some feeling/warmth to them! You may want to end with a Super Locrian scale followed with a blues lick which should establish your tonal center again in Am. You need not learn all the combinations. Just learn 1 or 2 well in each category. They will all sound basically the same.

I use/like the 1 Aug, 1 major, 1 minor, 1 dim mostly. The tension sounds balanced and you cover all the triads. (I might post a wav file how I apply these arpeggios.)

You should at least cover 2 - 2 1/2 octives. Start somewhere in 3rd position, 5 string and end somewhere in 8-10 position on the 1st or 2nd string. Play linear!!!

Here's a list of Twelve Tone "outside Triads" ( Quadritonal Arpeggios)
2 major and 2 minor:
Cm,Dm,E,F#
Cm,D,E,Bbm
C,D,G#m,Bbm
C,F#m,G#m,Bb
C,Dm,F#,G#m
Cm,E,F#m,Bb

2 Aug, 1 major, 1 minor:
C+,Dm,Eb+,F#
Cm,Db+,D+,E
C+,Db+,Eb,Bm
C,Db+,D+,G#m

1 Aug, 1major, 1 minor, 1 Dim:
C+,Eb,F#m,Bdim
C,Db+,Ebm,G#dim
Cm,D+,Fdim,A
Cdim,Db+,E,Gm

2 Dim, 1 major, 1 minor:
Cdim,Fdim,Gm,A
Cdim,Dm,E,Gdim
Cm,E,Fdim,Bbdim
C,D#dim,G#dim,Bbm

4 Aug:
C+,Db+,D+,Eb+
C+,D+,Eb+,F+
C+,Eb+,F+,A+

I have some powertabs of some quadratonal arpegggios. If you would like just email me and I can send them to you.

Last edited by oRg : 2005-08-24 at 11:55.
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  #3  
Old 2005-08-19, 07:19
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k13m k13m is offline
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cant u just attach the powertabs here??, so more of us can use it
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Old 2005-08-19, 12:27
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davie_gravy davie_gravy is offline
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Wow org... that's some wild shit. Fuckin awesome explanation, I actually understand quite alot of that. I just started learning all the different triad shapes and their inversion for all types of chords in a new lesson in this months Guitar One mag, so this will fall right into roll. Thanks!
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  #5  
Old 2005-08-19, 14:02
Exodus666 Exodus666 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k13m
cant u just attach the powertabs here??, so more of us can use it

Yes, oRg, attach those please.
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  #6  
Old 2005-08-19, 16:28
oRg oRg is offline
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Sorry I didn't post them before. I posted while I was at work and all the powertabs were on my home computer. This one has two examples of the same pattern it's just move down 2 frets. It's basically the Cm, Dm, E, F# pattern. Of course there's lots of stuff you can do with these sweeping shapes. You can add a small tap to each sequence or you can do some octave displacement and really make them sound wierd.
Attached Files
File Type: ptb QuadArps.ptb (1.8 KB, 214 views)

Last edited by oRg : 2005-08-19 at 16:31.
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  #7  
Old 2005-08-20, 00:41
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davie_gravy davie_gravy is offline
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Wow,


That shit sounds wild. I hear that sort of stuff alot in jason beckers music.
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  #8  
Old 2005-08-21, 08:45
oRg oRg is offline
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Well, I can't remember if Jason Becker used these but I know he did use something called dodecaphonics. Which are almost the same things as Quadratonal arpeggios...except they're not arpeggios. Your stil suing all 12 notes in a certain pattern. If you want to get some more examples and ideas I recommend picking up Nicholas Slonimsky's Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns. Steve Vai, Buckethead, and Jason Becker all said that they've studied it. It's a really interesting read.
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Old 2005-08-23, 23:24
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im gonna try this stuff when i get home, seems like some good shit.

anyways, the last chord in the first example seems wrong if ALL 12 notes are to be used, like a total chromatic scale.

its probably a typo but is this what is meant?
D|--5--|--7---|--9---|--11--|
A|--6--|--8---|--11--|--13--|
E|--8--|--10--|--12--|--14--|
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  #10  
Old 2005-08-24, 11:56
oRg oRg is offline
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Yeah, thanks for pointing out the typo. I changed it.
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  #11  
Old 2005-08-24, 20:38
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org, i dont see why the Am arpeggios would sound best over an E7alt chord. and for the examples at the bottom, how are you getting those patterns and when could i use them?
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  #12  
Old 2005-08-25, 18:23
oRg oRg is offline
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I would use them over a powerchord personally, but if you want to go a little bit deeper they would sound best over a dominant chord. The thing is you would use these to create a great amount of tension so you can use them where ever you want to use them. I'm not exactly sure why they sound best over a dominant chord. I think it's because the dominant chord will impart a feeling of tonality to an otherwise atonal, 12-tone progression. The patterns are pretty much straight from the book.

edit:
I had to ask a friend of mine why the Quad Arps sound best over a Dominant chord such as an E7 and basically from ym understanding is that the E7 played against the Quad Arps adds a felling to it because of the dominance of the chord. Remember these arps are going to be very dissonant and the key is building up and releasing the dissonance.

Last edited by oRg : 2005-08-29 at 18:25.
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