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  #1  
Old 2002-07-01, 15:27
scayer scayer is offline
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how to use scales?

hi!
a basic question. i didn't find out how i should use scales.
all people say if i want to make songs i have to learn scales, but how should i learn and use them? i don't think i have to learn all the patterns out there.
i mean, when i have builded a scale, should i try all the notes in all orders till it sounds good???


scayer
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  #2  
Old 2002-07-01, 15:30
walpurgis walpurgis is offline
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Easiest way I found to use a scale is to stand on it

Ok, serious response time.
Learn the sharps and flats of the scale, then just work with those notes and chords that go with them. Generally the root note of the scale you want to use will establish your key. Then just take it from there, you don't necessarily have to use specific patterns, work with the same notes in different octaves, try all kinds of different skips of notes, variations, bends, that kind of thing. A lot of it is guess and test which you'll get better at in time.

Good luck.
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  #3  
Old 2002-07-01, 20:27
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Euronymous Euronymous is offline
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alright see all songs consist of certain chords. now what's a chord? "when two or more notes are played at the same time,". now in each and every chord there is a scale, or those notes that can be played when the chord is played to create a "melody." this pretty much makes it sounds nice. so when you play out of scale, it sounds like two asscheeks rubbing together. in other words, horrible. you can sometimes hear it when someone's soloing, and they go out of scale, it's like an arrow that shoots through your head, it's fucking horrible. so, if you're soloing, then if you want to do things properly you have to learn the chords the bassist or other guitarist or synth is playing in order for it to sound good. point is, to every chord its own scale. that's how you use them. about the learning part on the other hand, all i can say is good luck because you're going to have to memorize. yes, it's gonna suck. yes, it's gonna be painfull. and yes, it's gonna be long. to tell you the truth I never bothered, but if you want to be better then me I suggest go learn them! guitarists today don't even really bother unless they're professional about it. but anywho, good luck mate!

P.S.: this is about the 5th example of why we could use a music theory forum.

quote from Richard Chapman's: The Complete Guitarist

"You have only these twelve notes, and one note is so precious that, if you play it in the right place and do the right thing with it, that one note is worth a thousand." - Les Paul
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Last edited by Euronymous : 2002-07-01 at 20:30.
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  #4  
Old 2002-07-02, 11:40
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CradleOfFilth CradleOfFilth is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Euronymous
P.S.: this is about the 5th example of why we could use a music theory forum.

how true
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  #5  
Old 2002-07-02, 16:14
Becker rules Becker rules is offline
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OK here is the way scales are used in music. Theres no such thing as going outta scale take Satriani as an example has solos that use all 12 notes but does this by changing the mode over the parent chord.

First and foremost you must learn the major scale, the building block of all music, for ease of use we'll work in C Major cause it contains no sharps or flats. To build the major scale you must know its formula (THIS IS IMPORTANT so take note) It is Root note, Whole tone, Whole Tone, Half Tone, Whole Tone, Whole Tone, Whole Tone, Half Tone, for quick reference write it as W,W,H,W,W,W,H. So using that formula we build the C major scale. Start on the root note C, move up by a whole tone D, move up by a whole tone E, move up a half tone F, move up a whole tone G and continue till you have completed the formula you should end up with.
The C major scale - C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C.
Now once you have the scale you will see it has seven notes, or seven degrees so now lets see what chords we can build from it. To build the C major chord you have to use the 1, 3 and 5 degrees of the scale, so lets take them (C,E,G) there you have it our first chord is C Major.

Now lets find other chords that will work with this. Lets take D as the root for the next chord. So our 1 is D, move up to its third (3 scale degrees) we come to F, and on to the 5th which is 5 scale degrees A. So our next chord is made up of (D,F and A) and you should recognise it as D minor.

On to our third chord. Take E as the root note or the 1. On 3 scale degrees to the third G, and onto the 5 B, that gives us (E,G,B) an E minor chord.
Surely by now you should know how to work out the other chords, you should end up with

C Major (C,E,G)
D Minor (D,F,A)
E Minor (E,G,B)
F Major (F,A,C)
G Major(G,B,D)
A Minor (A,C,E)
B Dimin (B,D,F)

Lets take 4 chords outta that and make a song, say C, Am, E minor and G, dont those chords go together well? why? because they are all built from the C major scale.
Lets take the most popular chord progression ever the I,IV,V, so lets take the I (C) the IV (F) the V (G), again it sounds great. You can create any chord progression using those chords and solo create a melody over it using the C major scale. Y
ou can start on a chord thats not the I chord, and build a progression lets take the VI (A Minor), lets pretend that thats the I and the root chord, so take the I,IV,V of that Am, Dm, Em. Play those sound familiar, it should do every blues song ever uses that progression almost. The only difference is your now playing in A minor, your not actually using C major anymore your using A Aeolian buts its the eaxct same notes, but thats getting into modes, anyway Ive being typin for an hour and my fingers are sore so youll have to work from there yourself.
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  #6  
Old 2002-07-03, 13:17
scayer scayer is offline
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thanks alot guys!

to becker: do you know any lessons about this stuff which is that good explained as you do?
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  #7  
Old 2002-07-03, 13:26
Becker rules Becker rules is offline
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Try www.guitar.com , theyve got video lessons by loadsa pro guitarists like Satriani and they guys off Iron Maiden etc............., theres alotta stuff there, plus www.totalguitar.co.uk , also www.guitartechniques.com and www.guitarworld.com has lessons on all aspects of playing by guys like john petrucci, yngwie malmsteen lottsa metal guitarists too.
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  #8  
Old 2002-07-03, 21:22
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motherfucker just HAD to write a better response then me...
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  #9  
Old 2002-07-09, 07:54
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I guess I mine as well talk about modes cause no one else is =P

K.. you got the major scale.. great.. so what!?

well.. you can play the major scale in different parts of the neck using the same note..

you could also call modes "boxes" because it has a certain box to be played in (cause some people know it that way.. i dunno why..) but I will also use the C major scale.

C major - C D E F G A B C

then what..?

the major scale is also known as ionian..

the next part gets confusing as fuck.. so a quick table could be set up....

I II III IV V VI VII
M m m M M m Dim

D dorian - D E F G A B C
it's the 2nd degree(ii), so looking at the chart, produces a minor chord

next is E phrygian - E F G A B C D
it's the 3rd degree(iii), so looking at the chart, you could see it forms a minor chord..

then its F Lydian - F G A B C D E
4th degree... major chord..

G mixolydian- G A B C D E F
5th degree.... major chord

A aeolian- A B C D E F G
6th degree... minor chord ( every major scale has a relative minor scale{6th degree}...

B locrian- B C D E F G A
7th degree... diminished chord..


The 2nd degree can also be used as a minor scale (sorta substitute if you will..)


Now.. with the chords..

MOST METAL SONGS WILL BE IN MINOR.. that just means the chord will almost always start with a minor chord and just have a progression within the minor scale..

say you are playing a chord progression in a minor (a b c d e f g); Am, C, Dm, G
you could also say its in A aeolian.. with that you can find the notes on the fingerboard (www.activeguitar.com has a great scale generator) and play in A aeolian.. (but you can also play in any other mode as long as its in A minor)

but some songs (vary rarely) will have started on say... a G chord.. but it's got a C major progression.. G, Am, Em, F
you could play it in G mixolydian (C major but starting on a G note basically..)

about the diminished crap.. I got too confused about it.. sorry =\

But I hope some of this stuff makes sense.. maybe it will..

or you could use those sites listed by becker if you dont have a shit browser like mine =\
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  #10  
Old 2002-12-30, 08:07
scayer scayer is offline
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Talking

Please look at this:

Major Modes:
C-Major: C D E F G A B
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

1. C-Ionian (Major)
2. D-Dorian
3. E-Phrygian
4. F-Lydian
5. G-Mixolydian
6. A-Aeolian (Minor)
7. B-Locrian


Major Scales:
C D E F G A B C
D E F# G A B C# D
E F# G# A B C# D# E
F G A A# C D E F
G A B C D E F# G
A B C# D E F# G# A
B C# D# E F# G# A# B

C# D# F F# G# A# C C#
D# F G G# A# C D D#
F# G# A# B C# D# F F#
G# A# C C# D# F G G#
A# C D D# F G A A#


For example, if I want to solo in B-Minor, then I search for the major scale where B is the 6th note. This would be D-Major and I play D-Major with B as root note.
If that's correct, then all I have to know are the major-scales like the back of my hand.

Is it better to know the major-scale modes or shall I also learn the minor modes?

A-Minor: A B C D E F G
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

1. Aeolian (Minor)
2. Locrian
3. Ionian (Major)
4. Dorian
5. Phrygian
6. Lydian
7. Mixolydian

Have I understood the modes now?
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  #11  
Old 2002-12-30, 11:20
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mrweijia mrweijia is offline
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for every major scale, theres a relative minor with the same notes
ie: Cmajor is the same as Aminor
sp you take the 6th note of the major scale, in this case A. now re-order the notes so A comes first. voila! you have an A natural minor scale.
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  #12  
Old 2002-12-30, 22:11
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PantericA PantericA is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Becker rules

C Major (C,E,G)
D Minor (D,F,A)
E Minor (E,G,B)
F Major (F,A,C)
G Major(G,B,D)
A Minor (A,C,E)
B Dimin (B,D,F)


what does the "Dimin" mean?
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  #13  
Old 2002-12-30, 22:14
walpurgis walpurgis is offline
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