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  #1  
Old 2005-06-04, 17:30
TheDreadfulHoroscope TheDreadfulHoroscope is offline
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Jazz: Scale of Chords

I understand now the scale of chords (maj7, min7, min7, maj7, 7, min7, 1/2dim) but now I don't understand where you can put things in such as 9th chords, 6th chords, ect. in a jazz song, yet its used all the time. Could somebody astute in music theory help me out here?
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  #2  
Old 2005-06-05, 02:22
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davie_gravy davie_gravy is offline
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I'm not a theory guru nor do I play any jazz, but the 9ths are just add-ons or extended chords from the 7ths

http://www.harmony-central.com/Guit...d-formation.txt
Code:
Just as there are 3 types of 7th chord (7th, min 7th, maj 7th) you end up with 3 types for 9th 11th and 13th chords by simply adding to the basic 7th chord. To get a 9th chord, add the 9th to the (flat) 7th chord To get a min 9th, add the 9th to the min 7th chord To get a maj 9th, add the 9th to the maj 7th chord


I don't know about the 6ths, I guess if you was to take a Cm6 = C Eb G A, for example, and use one of the notes of that chord to play into another chord in the progression, it would work. I guess like a passing chord....

There's also 6/9 chords too...
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  #3  
Old 2005-06-05, 12:55
TheDreadfulHoroscope TheDreadfulHoroscope is offline
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Im talking about useing degrees in a scale to decide where I can put different types of chords other than 1/2 dim, m7, maj7 ect. in a song and have it make sense...
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  #4  
Old 2005-06-05, 13:27
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amerok amerok is offline
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once you get past 8, the chord is structure repeats by 8, 10, and 12 (1, 3, 5) so tensions are never going to be a part of the basic chord structure. use them to sound good or to fit or contrast with piano/another instruments. also they use tensions to make runs frequently with guitar. say you have 3 chords with tensions in a row, often the added notes will end up making either diatonic or chromatic run. kind of like playing 2 guitar parts. theres a bunch of examples if you want me to show you some let me know
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  #5  
Old 2005-06-05, 20:54
TheDreadfulHoroscope TheDreadfulHoroscope is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amerok
once you get past 8, the chord is structure repeats by 8, 10, and 12 (1, 3, 5) so tensions are never going to be a part of the basic chord structure. use them to sound good or to fit or contrast with piano/another instruments. also they use tensions to make runs frequently with guitar. say you have 3 chords with tensions in a row, often the added notes will end up making either diatonic or chromatic run. kind of like playing 2 guitar parts. theres a bunch of examples if you want me to show you some let me know


Interesting....so chords such as "tensions" are only used to harmonize other instruments or to put together diatonic and chromatic runs? I understand the harmony part, but I would like to see an example of the other thing your talking about, im not sure about it....
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  #6  
Old 2005-06-10, 13:13
tchambliss tchambliss is offline
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Eh, Check out my thing on chord formulae it may help you a bit considering what you are asking but all in all you can just find scale formula that fit the chord formulae and thats when you can use them within the scale harmony. . . but remember to deconstruct each scale you use modally, remember to modify the scale for the first step second step third step fourth step fifth step and anymore you may have. . . Not trying to sound like a "know-it-all" Most of the stuff I posted in the chord formulae I used from my music theory class book. Then I did as I just suggested but that is close to about a year ago now. BTW, The whole tension thing is similar to the word it suggests it adds a slight tension and can help to define the melody. . . or to just make really funky jazz sounds. . . hahaha sorry. Like I say just don't turn into Trey Anastasio and I can be cool with anybody.
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Last edited by tchambliss : 2005-06-10 at 13:15. Reason: Eh, Noticed a comment I wanted to comment on
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  #7  
Old 2005-06-10, 23:30
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ok, ill post an example tomorrow, its late at night over here
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  #8  
Old 2005-06-11, 16:50
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heres a chromatic one. ok, play an E9, then E9 alt (flat the 9) then lets say a d9. within these chords you will be playing a chromatic run with the D in the first chord, Db in the second chord, and C on the last chord. these chord will stand out while doing the run.

diatonic. E9, then for the next chord add your pinky on the Db, which is the 9th. then play an Eb minor seventh. so you get a Db, B, then Bb all on the high E string. if you have any questions ask me cause i know this is hard to understand when talking through a forum.
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  #9  
Old 2005-06-12, 09:05
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Tabbing the examples may help people to visualise them.
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  #10  
Old 2005-06-12, 15:27
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davie_gravy davie_gravy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmansley
Tabbing the examples may help people to visualise them.



yes, plz, I'd like to 'see' what your talking about
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  #11  
Old 2005-06-13, 20:03
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sorry about that, god damnit. i hope this doesnt fuck up.
example 1
x x 7
7 6 5
7 7 5
6 6 5
7 7 5
x x x

E9 followed by an E9 alt, then to a A-9, so the run is on only the B string. These notes stand out nicely cause they are a chromatic run, they will automatically stick out when you play them.



example 2
7 9 6
7 7 6
7 7 6
6 6 4
x x x
x x x

E9, then add your pinky, another 3rd to it. then play without the pinky (technically a 12 but that doesnt matter) then resolve to a eb-9. This run is all on the top string. youre supposed to play a Db7 before all of this if you want a nice sounding progression rather than an example. if youre gunna do that just drop the first chord 3 frets. feel free to ask questions.

Last edited by amerok : 2005-06-13 at 20:22.
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  #12  
Old 2005-06-14, 08:47
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powersofterror powersofterror is offline
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When you say "tension", are you referring to 'stable' and 'unstable?' Oh, and dreadful, I have a thread here on aug 6th chords, you can check out that.
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  #13  
Old 2005-06-17, 09:44
TheDreadfulHoroscope TheDreadfulHoroscope is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amerok
sorry about that, god damnit. i hope this doesnt fuck up.
example 1
x x 7
7 6 5
7 7 5
6 6 5
7 7 5
x x x

E9 followed by an E9 alt, then to a A-9, so the run is on only the B string. These notes stand out nicely cause they are a chromatic run, they will automatically stick out when you play them.



example 2
7 9 6
7 7 6
7 7 6
6 6 4
x x x
x x x

E9, then add your pinky, another 3rd to it. then play without the pinky (technically a 12 but that doesnt matter) then resolve to a eb-9. This run is all on the top string. youre supposed to play a Db7 before all of this if you want a nice sounding progression rather than an example. if youre gunna do that just drop the first chord 3 frets. feel free to ask questions.



That sounds awesome....i see what you mean.

I should have asked this earlier, but what exactly is a diatonic run?
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  #14  
Old 2005-06-17, 10:23
SlightlyInsane SlightlyInsane is offline
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diatonic means that you stay in one key.
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  #15  
Old 2005-06-17, 10:24
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johnmansley johnmansley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amerok
sorry about that, god damnit. i hope this doesnt fuck up.
example 1
x x 7
7 6 5
7 7 5
6 6 5
7 7 5
x x x

E9 followed by an E9 alt, then to a A-9, so the run is on only the B string. These notes stand out nicely cause they are a chromatic run, they will automatically stick out when you play them.



example 2
7 9 6
7 7 6
7 7 6
6 6 4
x x x
x x x

E9, then add your pinky, another 3rd to it. then play without the pinky (technically a 12 but that doesnt matter) then resolve to a eb-9. This run is all on the top string. youre supposed to play a Db7 before all of this if you want a nice sounding progression rather than an example. if youre gunna do that just drop the first chord 3 frets. feel free to ask questions.


Thanks for that.
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  #16  
Old 2005-06-17, 10:39
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amerok amerok is offline
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no problem
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