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  #1  
Old 2004-12-22, 12:47
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Anybody good with timing, in here- 3/4 or 6/8?

Alright, I'm sprucing up this stupid power tab I did a few months back. Right now what I'm doing is adding time signatures to the tab. Now, right into the tab I run into a problem. The very first measure contains four 8th notes and four 16th notes. The problem is, I'm not sure whether the time signature should be 6/8 or 3/4. Right now I'm going to go with 6/8, because that was the number I came up with first.

I'd really appreciate any help. Also, anybody who is particularly good with timing (especially if you're familiar with or have made some powertabs), I'd really appreciate if maybe you could give me a quick brush up regarding timing and theory. I haven't studied this stuff since I was in high school, so I've forgotten most of it. Thanks a lot.

BTW, I know this is a tab question John, but I'd appreciate it if you could leave it here at least temporarily, as I think I'll get much better results from the theory buffs.
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  #2  
Old 2004-12-22, 15:25
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Four eighth notes = one half note = two quarter notes
Four sixteenth notes = one quarter note
Two + one = three (sorry, couldn't help myself) = 3/4

Fuck, I'm not even sure of that...I think it really comes down to the which beats you have stressed.

I think what I'm getting at is this:
3/4 - ONE, two, three, ONE, two three
Where as 6/8 would be:
One, two, three, one, two, three...etc

I'm not entirely sure if this makes sense and/or helps...maybe one with more of an advanced knowledge of theory can help you a bit better.

Last edited by SuNioj0369 : 2004-12-22 at 15:31.
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Old 2004-12-22, 15:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuNioj0369
Four eighth notes = one half note = two quarter notes
Four sixteenth notes = one quarter note
Two + one = three (sorry, couldn't help myself) = 3/4

Fuck, I'm not even sure of that...I think it really comes down to the which beats you have stressed.

I think what I'm getting at is this:
3/4 - ONE, two, three, ONE, two three
Where as 6/8 would be:
One, two, three, one, two, three...etc

I'm not entirely sure if this makes sense and/or helps...maybe one with more of an advanced knowledge of theory can help you a bit better.


I feel like I have absolutely NO idea what I'm doing when it comes to the timing of this thing. I feel like a total amateur (literally, we all are, we don't get paid) and, to be perfectly honest, I'm a little embarassed by my own ignorance in this area.

That being said, it plays along just fine with the real song and both end at the same time. I'll upload it so you and everybody else can check it out.
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File Type: ptb Rebel Lands.ptb (21.9 KB, 287 views)
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Old 2004-12-22, 15:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisRezendes
BTW, I know this is a tab question John, but I'd appreciate it if you could leave it here at least temporarily, as I think I'll get much better results from the theory buffs.


I have no problem with it being in here, Chris, as it's a theory question at heart.

I suppose another way to look at it is to approach it like a simple maths problem:

4/8 + 4/16 = ?

If we apply the following formula (I'm sure you know this, Chris, but for those who don't I'll include it anyway):

a/b + c/d = (ad+cb)/bd

[Aside: I'll supply the formulae for adding more than two fractions if anybody desperately needs them.]

[(4*16)+(4*8)]/(8*16) = (64+32)/128 = 96/128

The lowest form that this will reduce to in whole integers is 3/4. Presumably 6/8 is used when 6/8 happens to be the lowest form that the fraction can be reduced to in whole integers. For example, if you have 6 eighth notes in a bar, then you have 6/8 not 3/4.
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Last edited by johnmansley : 2004-12-22 at 15:51.
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  #5  
Old 2004-12-22, 15:54
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Holy shit, I just turned on the metronome and listened to it. It was not pretty. After fucking around with the time signatures so much, the metronome is at least 10 times worse than it was when I started. I did make some corrections in the riffs, though, so I'm glad I caught those. I'll keep working on this, I'm sure I'll get it eventually. I'm also still taking advice, if anybody has any.
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  #6  
Old 2004-12-22, 19:50
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go with 6/8. 3/4 will work too though. They are basicly the same. SuNioj0369 is correct in that the difference is only in which beats get stressed. Either 3/4 or 6/8 will work fine, unless pt actually stresses beats. So just try em both, if one sounds better, go with that one.

in 3/4 time the beat would be Strong Medium Weak in each measure

in 6/8 it would be Strong Medium Weak Strong Medium Weak.

They each are Strong Medium Weak but 6/8 time will do this two times per measure instead of only once like with 3/4. Your just stressing beats twice as often in 6/8, but they each have the same number of beats. Now, this actually makes a pretty big difference on the song, but, like I said, it would only matter if PT stressed beats, which is highly unlikely. They each have the same beats in them though.
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  #7  
Old 2004-12-23, 09:59
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yeah, that's about right....3/4 has three quarter notes to each measure, and the first quarter note is the stressed one. 6/8 is "6" eighth notes to each measure, basically doubling the 3/4 concept. To describe the 6/8 into terms of a quarter note based time, you could compare it to 2/4 with triplets-2 strong beats per measure.
Depending on the music, is the difference if it should be a compond meter or a simple meter. Compound meters are time signatures that are usually divisible by 3, with the exception of the top number. 6/8 is a compound meter, and so are 9/8 and 12/8-but not 3/8. This is because not only are the top #s divisible by three, exactly that, the notes are subdivided into three parts. (3/8 is different because is is divided into halves.) In simple time such as 4/4, this three note group is called a "triplet". In a time like 6/8, backwardly saying, it is a "duple." Oh, and that reminds me, simple time can also be called duple meter, and compound time can be called triple meter for reasons mentioned.
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Last edited by powersofterror : 2004-12-23 at 10:18.
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  #8  
Old 2005-01-27, 00:13
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go with the 6/8
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  #9  
Old 2005-01-27, 19:32
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powertab tip: if you look at the bottom, it'll tell you if the measure you are in is OK in time, or off. if it's off it'll say, for example, -1/2 or +1/2. if it's ok it'll say OK
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  #10  
Old 2005-01-27, 22:24
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its all about what you consider a quarter note and whether you want it to be in either regular timing or complex timing. If youre using more of a certain kind of note just adjust the signature so you dont have to fuck with it. Rember you can always change it during the song to make it easy for writing or whatever
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  #11  
Old 2005-02-05, 01:58
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not sure if it's already been answered but chris, here, in plain english. if someone could translate into american for him that would be good, i'm not good with the whole notes, half notes things.

surely you would know what common (4/4) time means, simply 4 beats (counts) in one bar. if you make it 3 beats in one bar, then it becomes 3/4 timing. yay i passed first grade math class.

the difference between 3/4 and 6/8 timing, is that there has to be 3 counts in a 3/4 (3 crotchets, 1 minim and 2 crotchets, or 1 dotted minim) for every single bar. with a 6/8 time signature, it is a more "free" than a 3/4, as you could have a semibreve in one bar as long as there is only two counts in the next bar. hope that contributes to you
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Old 2005-02-05, 06:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewc
with a 6/8 time signature, it is a more "free" than a 3/4, as you could have a semibreve in one bar as long as there is only two counts in the next bar.


No you can't, unless it is an 'incomplete bar' at the start of a song. If a bar is 6/8 or 4/4 or whatever, it must have the reqiured notes in it to fill the bar completely. Not any more or any less. A semibreve wouldn't fit into either a 3/4 or a 6/8 bar, as a semibreve is equivalent to 4 crotchets or 8 quavers, not 3 or 6. If you wanted a 4 beat note in 3/4 time for example, you'd need a dotted minim tied with a crotchet in the next bar, followed by more notes that take up the remaining two beats.
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  #13  
Old 2005-02-05, 07:40
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Yeah, I managed to get the powertab done a while back, so I'm cool on that, but if people want to keep this open to discuss this, that's cool. This does seem to be a topic worth discussing considering the varying opinions.
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  #14  
Old 2005-02-05, 07:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloaca
No you can't, unless it is an 'incomplete bar' at the start of a song. If a bar is 6/8 or 4/4 or whatever, it must have the reqiured notes in it to fill the bar completely. Not any more or any less. A semibreve wouldn't fit into either a 3/4 or a 6/8 bar, as a semibreve is equivalent to 4 crotchets or 8 quavers, not 3 or 6. If you wanted a 4 beat note in 3/4 time for example, you'd need a dotted minim tied with a crotchet in the next bar, followed by more notes that take up the remaining two beats.


erg. i made a whale's penis out of myself again. yes, that's exactly what i meant, but i think i was right in the terms of it being "free", minus the semibreve part
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Old 2005-02-05, 07:53
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hehe. Well anyway, I'd use 6/8 in a song/riff where quavers are the dominant note length, eg. Necrophagist's 'To Breathe In A Casket'.
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  #16  
Old 2005-02-25, 13:00
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difference between 3/4 and 6/8

Hey Chris,

Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.

It sounds to me like the bar in question is in 3/4. I say this because you have it grouped in 3 beats: 2 eigths + 2 eights + 4 sixteenths. The difference between 3/4 and 6/8 is the accenting: 3/4 has 3 main beats, whereas 6/8 has 2 main beats with a triplet feel. IE:

1 & 2 & 3 & vs 1 2 3 , 1 2 3

If your song is Metal, it is almost certainly in 3/4. 6/8 tends to sound more progressive. For your song to be in 6/8, you'd have to be accenting the 4th 8th note. It should be fairly easy for you to determine whether or not this is in fact the case.

Hope that helps,

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