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  #1  
Old 2005-01-30, 16:13
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johnmansley johnmansley is offline
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Triggers

I know triggers is strictly off limits but I was thinking about their use the other day and maybe I have something different to bring to the argument of whether they are an aid to 'cheating' at drumming.

Well, basically, triggers act in a similar way to an amp and effects can be added to the drum sound. The main uses are to amplify so that the drummer doesn't have to hit his kit as hard and to even out the sound of a double bass drum set up.

Now, the point that I'm going to make is a comparison between triggers and effect peddles for guitars such as noise gates and compressors. Noise gates eliminate unwanted noise frequencies and compressors can even out the range of frequencies produced in order to attain a more consistent sound throughout. Are guitarists who use these effects cheating in the same way that drummers who use triggers are?

I don't believe so. Afterall by triggers=cheating logic, if a guitarist has to use a noise gate, surely that means he/she is not good enought to eliminate unwanted noise by conventional means such as left and right hand string damping and thus could be considered as cheating.

I'm not really asking for your views on whether triggers are cheating, but I would like to know if I make a fair comparison between these two applications of digital technology. If the comparison is a legitimate one, I would like to know why triggers are often greeted with such vehement hostility whereas noise gates and compressors are accepted as standard practise.
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  #2  
Old 2005-01-30, 16:31
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I think triggers are fuckin sweet for use in the studio.

Ill blend them into the real drum sound during>>>

A.Blast Beats (snare)

Or

B.Superfast DBL Bass stuff.

Theyre nice because they offer a consistent backbone where there might not have been one.

In terms of dynamic consistency,,,,

There are few drummers ive met/recorded that didnt need a little compression and or triggering.
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  #3  
Old 2005-01-30, 16:42
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And my comparison?
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  #4  
Old 2005-01-30, 17:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmansley
And my comparison?



Its fair yes.

Triggers can be looked at like distortion for a guitar.

Identical attack time.

Altered tone.

But with increased presence.
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  #5  
Old 2005-01-30, 17:57
Lord.Worm Lord.Worm is offline
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As Amongst Us said.
Theire a nice "tool" for extreme drumming.
Itīs quite impossible to get two bassdrums the same sound (I needed about one hour to get them nearly the same)
And its quite useful for recording and live...
But iīm (what a surprise) too poor for a Module...
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  #6  
Old 2005-01-30, 19:53
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There have been many arguements about triggers and how people think they cheat, but you cleared it up for the idiots that think so. Nicely done Mr.John Mansley
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  #7  
Old 2005-01-30, 21:18
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there is one flaw to your argument as far as im concerned. an electric guitar is not designed in any way for an acoustic sound<unless you use a hollowbody which ive never seen at a metal show>, drums are

a guitar amp has a volume nob no matter what pedal is used, not using a distortion pedal cant be equated to drums unless it was an acoustic

as far as "cheating" is concerned ill spare you all from another of my long boring posts,lets just say i dont use triggers, sometimes ill be miked,thats it
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  #8  
Old 2005-01-30, 21:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low-tech
there is one flaw to your argument as far as im concerned. an electric guitar is not designed in any way for an acoustic sound


Fair enough.

Tell you what...

Go to that link under my name that says amongstus.

On that page ther are three songs.

Number 11 has NO triggers.

Number 12 does.

Which one do you like better?

I dig both the drum sounds quite a bit.

I will say however that Number 11 took a hell of alot longer to get consistent that 12 did.
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  #9  
Old 2005-01-30, 23:16
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personally i think triggers would aid drummers' skills....they definately help with constant bass, but what about just studder shit...u know like a fast galop or something. when you incorperate the toms into it, the triggers just seem unnatural.
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  #10  
Old 2005-01-30, 23:17
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good debate thou...guitarists have their pedals, vocalists have their preamps and shit, and what are the drummers left with....how can you say that's cheating??????
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  #11  
Old 2005-01-31, 01:38
GUITARFETUS GUITARFETUS is offline
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i am not a drummer but i am very into drums, and all i can say, is triggering kicks ass, i mean the faster you hit a kick drum, the lower the volume and tone is on the hits, and since i play guitar i would say that your argument is fair, not becouse of use of effects pedals but becouse of pickups, triggers are pretty much pickups if you think about it, when an electric guitar is strummed the pickups pickup the vibration of the strings causing a "guitar signal" to occur and travel into your amp, were an acoustic guitar you would have to mic, and the actual guitar sound would go into the mic, and out of the speakers... triggers pick up the vibration from the drum hit, and turn it into a sound, or if you mic the drums the mic picks up the sound of the drum, and out the speaker it goes.. and so on, so if you strum an electric guitar it will obviously be louder than an acoustic guitar, and if the acoustic is miced, you would have to pick harder to make it louder.. and things of that nature, i hope this is making sense..
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  #12  
Old 2005-01-31, 05:04
NZ black metal drumm NZ black metal drumm is offline
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I like Triggers because they make what you play clear and punchy, and as for the whole 'a bad drummer uses triggers to cover mistakes' arguement, that is BULLSHIT!!! if anything triggers would highlight sloppy form because the make the sound clearer.

the only time I think using triggers is cheating is say when someone is doing a gravity blast or a Moeller role and triggers so that it sounds as loud as their single stroke rolls and ordinary playing that is the ONLY time one can call using triggers cheating.
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  #13  
Old 2005-01-31, 05:34
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I agree. Saying triggers is cheating is, in most cases, crap. I'd go into further detail, but I think NZBMDrummer has covered it well enough.
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  #14  
Old 2005-01-31, 05:37
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guitar fetus, going by your logic a drummer would not need shells, an electric guitar goes without a resonent body that is hollowed, if drums have "pickups" they sould follow suit

nz, my objection of triggers is that its counterintuitive to a drums fundemental design, the whole "cleaning up mistakes" argument is not really something i hold to, in my opinion triggers, for the most part, incourage bad habits and technique, ill state the most obvious flaw. playing quiet and relying on the PA to provide volume in a live show situation

if anyone has ever seen the phobia drummer, he is a living example of why you dont need triggers, hes loud as hell,foot and hands, also check out the daughters, another equally loud drummer
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  #15  
Old 2005-01-31, 08:28
Lord.Worm Lord.Worm is offline
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Mhh by the way Necrophagist is completely miced...and itīs one of the best drum sounds ever...(with chimera from mayhem...but thats triggered)...
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  #16  
Old 2005-01-31, 09:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low-tech

if anyone has ever seen the phobia drummer, he is a living example of why you dont need triggers, hes loud as hell,foot and hands, also check out the daughters, another equally loud drummer


I respect the fact that you are a type of purist, and that you'd like everyone else to be too.

However,

Not everyone can be the Phobia drummer.

Now im guessing.....but id fathom that 90% of rock/metal drummers ARE NOT as consistent as the Phobia drummer.

See, heres the thing.

For the most part, triggering takes place in the recording environment.
I cant tell you how many times ive recorded a guy that

A.Hits his snare like a bitch during fast parts.
Guess what happens when you turn that snare up in the mix?
You get a shit ton of hi-hat bleed from the snare microphone.
And in turn, you get a fuckin ghetto drum mix.

Now...with triggers that shit is solved.


Or

B.Double kick.....do i even need to explain that one?


Triggers......solved.

So we are both right dude.

Yes the people need to practice.
But alot of them dont, or some of them just plain dont have the natural ability.

And in this case>>>>>>>>>

ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY TRIGGER
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  #17  
Old 2005-01-31, 09:18
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the first album mp3s sounded to me like triggers, coz the drummer was doing tons of gravity blast, but the second album mp3s sounded alot better than the first and he cut down on the tell tale gravity blasts<as to indicate triggers>. are you sure your source of that info was commentary about both lps or just the second lp?

amoung us, my computer is too old and obsolete to load myspace pages, is there any other source for mp3s of your band? i wouldnt mind listening
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  #18  
Old 2005-01-31, 09:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low-tech

amoung us, my computer is too old and obsolete to load myspace pages, is there any other source for mp3s of your band? i wouldnt mind listening


Well i assume you can download stuff correct?

If so, just choose the download function underneath the song name on our myspace page.

Example...

Number 12
download/rate/lyrics


just click the download bro.

or better yet here's a direct link

http://www.geomana.com/audio/remastered.mp3
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Last edited by Amongst Us : 2005-01-31 at 09:26.
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  #19  
Old 2005-01-31, 14:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low-tech
guitar fetus, going by your logic a drummer would not need shells, an electric guitar goes without a resonent body that is hollowed, if drums have "pickups" they sould follow suit


Guitarists fit pickups to acoustic guitars so I don't see why a drummer cannot attach triggers to his acoustic kit.
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  #20  
Old 2005-01-31, 18:14
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john, if you read guitarfetuses post more carefully you'd see he mentioned that an acoustic pickup is more like a mike than a pickup<pickup the vibration or "guitar signal">, which is true, i have a plug in acoustic, its basically a microphone inside the body,it picks up the sound that result from the vibration not just the vibration transfered as a signal. if an acoustic had an actual pickup like in a electric guitar it would be the most pointless thing this side of titanium plated cymbals, electric guitars are only intonated, they have no real resonent quality to them as to make a direct parrallel with a drumkit,this debate is going way too far into semantics, i apologize for initiating it

amoung us, i cant even begin to explain how bizzare the computer im using is, when i get on a myspace page the whole panel on the top right side does not appear, the whole play.stop,rewind, fastforward a song panel, i went to your site instead,sounds good. ok, i conceed the point, i dont know recording, im beginning to get a hi-fi digital recording setup myself, if triggers helps that, power to you, i'll never do it, hi-hat bleed be damned. i was more critical of triggers in live show situations anyway, thats what matters most in my ears
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