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  #41  
Old 2004-09-06, 20:52
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OMG SELLOUTS!!!11

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  #42  
Old 2004-09-06, 20:54
Angel-Of-Death Angel-Of-Death is offline
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your right thier just as bad a metallica, a very very good band, no matter if they play crapy music now, st. anger isnt track 5 on master of puppets.

i think by sell outs he means they sell albums... yeah all good bands do.
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  #43  
Old 2004-09-06, 20:55
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i havent listened to Pantera in ages, i saw a whole lot of those pics in there glam days, now everytime i put on one of there albums i get the image of Dimebag in leopard skin
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  #44  
Old 2004-09-06, 21:15
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i pretty much only listen to Pantera while driving...Pantera, Lamb of God and In Flames are possily the heaviest rotated in my car cause they don't need that much attention...bands like Immolation, Aborted, Cryptopsy etc demand respect and must get more attention.
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  #45  
Old 2004-09-06, 21:23
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Pantera? Sell outs? I dont understand, Pantera kicked some major ass until that asshole phil decided to say shit, look at kirk hammett he can't even play his own solos anymore......Every fucking member is talented, far more than any one person in metallica, or half the fucking new metal bands today
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  #46  
Old 2004-09-06, 21:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS
FUCK YOU!!11

BLAKC METAL IS BR00TAL!111


Your username indicates bad taste in music.
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  #47  
Old 2004-09-06, 23:54
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I adore it when people get so frustrated over someone else's opinion.
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  #48  
Old 2004-09-06, 23:57
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BeastOfCarrion BeastOfCarrion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilist
I adore it when people get so frustrated over someone else's opinion.

what do you think i was trying to do
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  #49  
Old 2004-09-07, 00:00
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If you mean me, I am not getting frustrated, just tired of people thinking things they dont know for sure about certain things.......
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  #50  
Old 2004-09-07, 00:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exploding Lobster
If you mean me, I am not getting frustrated, just tired of people thinking things they dont know for sure about certain things.......

why, people can form ignorant opinions all they want, its their choice, you just have to live with it, safe in the knowledge that you know you are right, and they are wrong. My statements are made about them being sellouts because they changed their style away from glam, and the became a lot more popular, yet maintained their origional name. Thats my opinion, and there is NOTHING you can say that will change it.
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  #51  
Old 2004-09-07, 10:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Def
that wasn't meant for you.

I just felt like saying cunt.

Pantera rocks, that goes without saying.


That's too bad. I was rather amused when I first saw it and I chuckled until the dumbfounding confusion set in. Come to think of it, a lot of things end that way for me.
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  #52  
Old 2004-09-07, 10:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exploding Lobster
Pantera? Sell outs? I dont understand, Pantera kicked some major ass until that asshole phil decided to say shit, look at kirk hammett he can't even play his own solos anymore......Every fucking member is talented, far more than any one person in metallica, or half the fucking new metal bands today

I dunno if this is one of the reasons why but their singer (or old singer) said Pantera was dead when he was in his new band. Now THAT is sell out, it doesn't matter if you're in Pantera or not.

PS) Someone gave reasons why Metallica were sellouts (good ones), anyone know anything like that about Pantera.
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  #53  
Old 2004-09-07, 10:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exploding Lobster
True, well still I dont think Pantera are overrated, they spent all those years as glam metal, and when they finally hit big with talented, fast, well educated music, people want to flame them and say they are overrated and are posers.


I would like to point out that I like Pantera, I just feel the need to point that out before I explain why they are very, very overrated.

1. They are, in my opinion, a good band, but almost everybody knows who they are (like Metallica), and they are commonly considered as the best (or one of the best) metal bands ever.

2. Their sound never was and still isn't original, and as long as Pantera have existed they have borrowed heavily and liberally from their influences (Watchtower, Exhorder).

3. Dimebag Darrell, who is a good guitarist, is commonly referred to as THE best (or one of the best) guitarists in all of metal.

I'm not sure why you say few people in your high school have heard of Pantera, maybe you are being honest, but in my high school (around 1998-2000) there were lots of Pantera fans (shirts and patches on backpacks everywhere), and that says nothing of the people who knew who they were but didn't like them.

I'd also like to explain to you why they are/were considered posers-

1. They played derivative, unoriginal butt rock for years (three albums).

2. Phil joined the band and they suddenly drastically changed sounds, sounding VERY much like several bands that Phil was a big fan of (Exhorder, Watchtower, a couple others)

3. They LIED about their glam past, saying that it was a different band or that it never happened at all. They lied about going under cheesy names like "Diamond Darrell" and "Rexx Rokker". They lied about the bitch makeup. They did everything in their power to cover up their cheesy past instead of admitting it and moving on like men with balls would do.

When a band changes sound/image to what's popular and then lies about their previous sound, it's very easy to see why people think they are or were posers.

I am not a Pantera hater, but they have been a very dubious band with little credibility and it's very easy for me to see why so many people hate them.

For more information-
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStri...panty/index.htm

As an aside, I think Darrell Abbott's new nickname is even worse than the first. Look at all the shit you can do to it-

Slimebag Darrell
Dimefag Darrell
Douchebag Darrell

You could verbally ruin his shit in about 2 seconds flat, and you don't even have to have an imagination to do it.

Last edited by ChrisRezendes : 2004-09-07 at 10:41.
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  #54  
Old 2004-09-07, 12:39
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i dont like Pantera, in fact, i think they suck. Im just fucking bored when i hear them. NOTHING stands out on one song than another. And after reading what ChrisRezendes has to say about them, they SUCK oh soo much more!
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  #55  
Old 2004-09-07, 13:53
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No in my high school everyone like EMO and Slipknot and stuff I am one of the only people who listen to Pantera, anyway They may have lied, but I dont care about that stuff, I like the music and thats it
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  #56  
Old 2004-09-07, 15:18
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emo and slipknot stuff eh, how old are you, 12?

man, I was happy to get outta highschool and into uni before we got any of that trendy shit.
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  #57  
Old 2004-09-07, 17:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbathGS
Your username indicates bad taste in music.


OMG 666 NECRO!111

GRRR
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  #58  
Old 2004-09-07, 19:33
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Trendkill_420 Trendkill_420 is offline
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pantera fucking suck!


and to debate with you chris.

1. They are, in my opinion, a good band, but almost everybody knows who they are (like Metallica), and they are commonly considered as the best (or one of the best) metal bands ever.

What's your point? If people consider them one of the best than, they are by that example. You are judged by opinions. If there are more opinions that argue that they are a great band, then the general metal masses find them to be one of the best. Hence they are. Your opinion just differs with the masses.


2. Their sound never was and still isn't original, and as long as Pantera have existed they have borrowed heavily and liberally from their influences (Watchtower, Exhorder).

What band is original? You name one and there's someone who's done it before. Bands just take music that has been done before and personalize it. And the arguement that they borrowed from other influences is not an arguement at all. Slayer borrowed from their influences, morbid angel borrowed from theirs, clapton borrowed from his.

3. Dimebag Darrell, who is a good guitarist, is commonly referred to as THE best (or one of the best) guitarists in all of metal.

Back to my arguement about the opinion of the masses.
Technically, Darrell Abott is a very talented guitar player.


I'd also like to explain to you why they are/were considered posers-

1. They played derivative, unoriginal butt rock for years (three albums).

derivative is unorginal. You stated the exact same thing twice. You may find the idea of the music derivative due to it being made in an era of "butt rock". But that doesnt' make the actual music unoriginal. If you want to delve into that arguement, than I can state that 80% of "rock, etc." music written after
"Me and The Devil Blues"- Robert Johnston 1936, is unoriginal, and just "borrows" from this music.

2. Phil joined the band and they suddenly drastically changed sounds, sounding VERY much like several bands that Phil was a big fan of (Exhorder, Watchtower, a couple others)

We'll never know the actual reason for the change (other than the idea of influence -thank god for that), but we can all come up with conspiracies. Money, fame. Maybe they just decided they like that type of music, and they'd like to play that type of music. Can't blame 'em for that can we. When you play with your band, do you have an idea of what you'd like your sound to be. You want heavy, or you want light, or you want blues, etc. Get the point?


3. They LIED about their glam past, saying that it was a different band or that it never happened at all. They lied about going under cheesy names like "Diamond Darrell" and "Rexx Rokker". They lied about the bitch makeup. They did everything in their power to cover up their cheesy past instead of admitting it and moving on like men with balls would do.

I could see how anyone would deny that embarrassing stage, but seeing as all your "sources" don't back up any of their info with qoutes or sources of there own. Than it not an arguement, It could or could have been said. Number one rule, don't believe anything you read on the net without a stated source. Hell man, jesus himself told me he used to hang out with jim morrison at the whiskey a go go. See what i'm saying?

So Now we have a mature debate. Notice the lack of namecalling and the infamous "you are gay (because our opinions differ".

Rebuttals?
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  #59  
Old 2004-09-07, 19:56
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As far as there not being sources to Pantera lying about their image, this was mostly done in magazines in the early 90's, and I have seen one example, which was in a magazine that I do not have. I did not follow this information simply because it was online- I was finding this out on my own and looked online for more information to corroborate what I had been thinking.

As far as everybody else borrowing from influences, there is huge difference between that and what I am describing. Cannibal Corpse were influenced by Possessed early on, but it is something that is pretty subtle. Pantera's influence is in your face and you can't escape it. I happen to be an Exhorder fan so I like Pantera. The band as a whole borrowed from Exhorder, Watchtower, and several other Texan thrash/power bands. Phil personally ripped off Kyle's vocal style to an extreme degree. Normally that's not such a big deal, but there are two things where Phil's example stands out-

1. Kyle's vocal style was very original at the time, which would have been from 1986 forward. Nobody was doing that.

2. Phil didn't sound like someone who was influenced by Kyle- he sounded like he wanted to be Kyle, and they sounded almost identical around the early 90's (Phil sounds different in his other bands nowadays).

It is also very important to notice the EXTREME degree to which their music was change when Phil joined in. It is no coincidence that as soon as Phil (who ripped off the vocal style of Exhorder's vocalist) joined Pantera, Pantera started sounding more and more like Exhorder. The only thing saving them from being a complete ripoff was influence of other bands on Dime's playing, as well as smidgens of his own originality. This shows that they were wishy-washy, trying to ride current trends to popularity.

And no, there is no excuse for having no balls and not admitting to something you used to be. I used to listen to the Steve Miller Band, and while I'm not proud of it, I'm not going to lie about it like a cowardly bitch.

But like I said, I like Pantera, they are just highly overrated (I already stated my points on that). My large post to which you replied was only an explanation to somebody who was confused as to why many consider Pantera to be sell outs or trendy. For the record, I don't think they are sellouts at all, and I know that they are trendy.

Quote:
What's your point? If people consider them one of the best than, they are by that example. You are judged by opinions. If there are more opinions that argue that they are a great band, then the general metal masses find them to be one of the best. Hence they are. Your opinion just differs with the masses.


If people consider them the best or one of the best when in reality they are only above average (which in my opinion they are), then that makes them overrated. The fact that the masses think that does not make them the best all of a sudden. If that were the case, the word "overrated" would not exist, and we'd all be mindless, trend-following drones. Devo were once considered one of the greatest music bands of all time. Warrant and Poison, TO THIS DAY, are still often cited as some of the best metal bands of all time. So because that is popular opinion, does that make it true? Or would you agree with me that they are heavily overrated?
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  #60  
Old 2004-09-07, 20:13
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no I don't see those bands as overated, because if a band is still being mentioned now. Than they have stayed the test of time. I may not like them, but it's obvious other people do.

If you look into it, I can almost guarantee that "kyles" vocales were far from original. Come on man, growling, original? blues.
Well If phil sounded like he wanted to be kyle than I suppose you'd see him as phil's idol. Who hasent had an idol at some point in life?

and to argue your "extreme change" theory. Did you not read what I said about influencing the your band? Differnet personalities, different ideas. Phil probably introduced pantera to exhorder, and they said "shit man, that sounds cool. I wanna make music like that "

What's wrong with the steve miller band? lol. Aside from that, we've all done things we we're not proud of. Fact is, we don't go out of our way to bring it up. They may or may not have denied it. Maybe they made a mistake. People fuck up, Just because they're in a band doesn't mean we have to put them under a microscope and critisize every mistake they make. People fuck up.

If people consider them the best or one of the best when in reality they are only above average (which in my opinion they are), then that makes them overrated

Notice the "in my opinion". In your opinion, they are only above average, in your opinion, they are overated. So logic wise, I feel you are incorrect. But opinion wise, i guess you're right


The fact that the masses think that does not make them the best all of a sudden.
Actually, technically it would. Seeing as "best", is better than all others. And you have to base this finding on something. Which would be opinion of better than all others.
The best golfer is judged because people view him as the best. The same theory goes for music.
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Last edited by Trendkill_420 : 2004-09-07 at 20:17.
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