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  #1  
Old 2006-08-27, 21:27
Chrispaks Chrispaks is offline
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Speeding up Double Bass

I sort of recently got a double kick pedal for one bass drum.

Its real nice, I didnt know how easy it is once you know timing :P.
I remember when I didnt know timing at all, I was a mess. Through time, and mastering of timing, I learned how to keep nice double bass beat at about 150 bpm.

Now, one day, through experimentation, I tried to replicate Leather Rebel. Somehow it worked. Sure, I wasnt constant perflectly or didnt have perfect timing, but it felt good. I even tried some Arch Enemy songs like "Taking Back My Soul", which I was close, but since I'm not that experienced with double kick pedals yet I decided to work from bottom to top.

Now, how would I go about raising my speed? I would love control and be able to blaze my double bass, but to get to going 180 bpm or faster, it takes me about 15-20 minutes to warm up alone just to do it (if I haven't been playing already).

Is the best way, to whip out the old metronome, and practice a constant beat at lets say 150 bpm, then move up slowly to 155 bpm and practice until im fluent with that, then 160, 165... 180? (For example, and further if I want)? Or is there a better way?
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  #2  
Old 2006-08-27, 23:13
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CompelledToLacerate CompelledToLacerate is offline
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Well, I too am not too good with double bass, which is why I only use it on fills and stuff, but I too would like to apply it to more of my playing. And I was told to get a metronome and start at a speed I am entiely comfortabe with that I can play at a steady tempo at without losing control, and just play that until I'm tired out.

There's also the heel/toe technique, which I am very new to, where ou hit the pedal with your heel, and then when it bounces back up you hit it with the front of the foot, almost like arocking motion with your foot, from heel to toe. If you can perfect it, theoretically, you won't even need the double bass. If you can perfect it with both feet, you'd definitely get in some really fast rolls.
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  #3  
Old 2006-08-28, 09:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrispaks
I sort of recently got a double kick pedal for one bass drum.

Its real nice, I didnt know how easy it is once you know timing :P.
I remember when I didnt know timing at all, I was a mess. Through time, and mastering of timing, I learned how to keep nice double bass beat at about 150 bpm.

Now, one day, through experimentation, I tried to replicate Leather Rebel. Somehow it worked. Sure, I wasnt constant perflectly or didnt have perfect timing, but it felt good. I even tried some Arch Enemy songs like "Taking Back My Soul", which I was close, but since I'm not that experienced with double kick pedals yet I decided to work from bottom to top.

Now, how would I go about raising my speed? I would love control and be able to blaze my double bass, but to get to going 180 bpm or faster, it takes me about 15-20 minutes to warm up alone just to do it (if I haven't been playing already).

Is the best way, to whip out the old metronome, and practice a constant beat at lets say 150 bpm, then move up slowly to 155 bpm and practice until im fluent with that, then 160, 165... 180? (For example, and further if I want)? Or is there a better way?



I mean that sounds like a pretty solid game plan. But to be honest all it really takes is just playing and practice. It won't take you that long to get up to 180 bpm. Also when you say 150 bpm do you mean triplet eighth notes at 150 bpm? Or like steady eighth notes?

I mean it doesn't that big a difference but i would definately say the latter is much harder to do. speed and timing wise.

I would just keep it up and in no time 180 won't be that hard trust me.
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  #4  
Old 2006-08-28, 11:20
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Yeah, there is no secret to getting good at double bass fastest. It needs time and practice just like everything else in the world. Don't fall into any scams that say you can double your speed in minutes, it's all bullshit. Every drummer you hear playing 16ths over 220bpm spent years working on getting there.

Practice with a metronome, and never practice at a speed you cant play. Work your way up comfortably.
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  #5  
Old 2006-08-28, 18:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Execrator
Yeah, there is no secret to getting good at double bass fastest. It needs time and practice just like everything else in the world. Don't fall into any scams that say you can double your speed in minutes, it's all bullshit. Every drummer you hear playing 16ths over 220bpm spent years working on getting there.

Practice with a metronome, and never practice at a speed you cant play. Work your way up comfortably.



Now thats fucking fast as shit. I can probably do steady 8ths at 240 bpm at best.
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  #6  
Old 2006-08-28, 21:29
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I've been playing double bass for about 2 and a half years now and i can comfortably play 16ths at 205bpm for about 20 seconds. Double bass isn't easy work....
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  #7  
Old 2006-08-28, 21:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CompelledToLacerate
There's also the heel/toe technique, which I am very new to, where ou hit the pedal with your heel, and then when it bounces back up you hit it with the front of the foot, almost like arocking motion with your foot, from heel to toe. If you can perfect it, theoretically, you won't even need the double bass. If you can perfect it with both feet, you'd definitely get in some really fast rolls.


It is an awesome technique for double bass. The guy with the fastest feet in the world uses heel-toe doubles, but I prefer to alternate feet like this:

(right toe) (left toe) (right heel) (left heel)

It's difficult at first because the muscles used are different, but it's great for speed. The difficult thing to obtain with this technique is control. I do the basic rudiments on my feet as well as hands, do heel toe doubles on the bass, and play simple goth and doom metal grooves that involve double kick using this technique. It's more important to be clean and tight first, the speed will come naturally.
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  #8  
Old 2006-08-29, 10:39
Miscarriage Miscarriage is offline
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As far as I know, it may seem like it's not doing anything..but it does in the long run, feels different than it would with hands. I had a weird problem with it though, my practice set which is some crappy CB because I prefer practicing on a set rather than a pad had some issues with my double bass playing. It has little bounce compared to my Spaun, carpet floor as well..and for some reason I couldn't steadily play above we'll say, 160? The limited bounce shook my pedal. I would go to my other kit and hit 190-210 without too much effort, so it could be tuning, or just bounce issues? Always something to look at I suppose..if it's valid. Heel-Toe is great but it's a lot of practice, if you can start that way, might as well, it's a good technique.
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  #9  
Old 2006-08-29, 12:59
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One secret to doing doubles and being able to count and keep in time at higher speeds is to count the kicks in groups of 4 like a metronome. Count the first kick (usually right foot) DA da da da DA da da da DA da da da DA da da da

And to practice this I used to actually kick the DA or the first note of each bar harder as if my feet were actually making the sound of a metronome. It probably sounds stupid the way im writing it but it will help majorly in your speed and timing. I can play faster and smoother than any of my friends who've been playing twice as long, just because they dont know about this. (and i never told them haha)
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  #10  
Old 2006-08-29, 19:03
Chrispaks Chrispaks is offline
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Quote:
One secret to doing doubles and being able to count and keep in time at higher speeds is to count the kicks in groups of 4 like a metronome. Count the first kick (usually right foot) DA da da da DA da da da DA da da da DA da da da


I find myself struggling to say in my head (1 a and e) when I get faster, would using a set of "Da's" replace that?



Now for all the posts above, I'll take it to heart as I practice.


Quote:
It is an awesome technique for double bass. The guy with the fastest feet in the world uses heel-toe doubles, but I prefer to alternate feet like this:


I was interested in this, but is there a place to demonstrate it, or help me practice it? Adding anything to my "arsenal" is good :P
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  #11  
Old 2006-08-30, 00:00
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Drummer5320 Drummer5320 is offline
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this is the guy with the fastest feet in the world and he shows you how he uses the heel-toe technique

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...603460197958871
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  #12  
Old 2006-08-31, 02:13
Exodus666 Exodus666 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Execrator
I've been playing double bass for about 2 and a half years now and i can comfortably play 16ths at 205bpm for about 20 seconds. Double bass isn't easy work....

Seriously, I've been dragging on with heel-up playing for the first three years, without drastic improvements. Then I've taken two heel/toe lessons, the first one was 6 weeks ago. I can now do double bass easily at the tempo of my split blasts, which would mean 16ths at 195 bpm, and it keeps improving. Hell, I'm saving up for Axis so I would have an easier time to get to 220. The guy I took lessons from is at 230 or so, and he said that in a month, I would be 'cruising' as well.

So it's possible to get your speed up by at least 150% (as in my case) in a month or two. Plus, it's a great technique to put little rolls in riffs... When I listen to the newer Immortal now, I'm sure that guy uses it too, it's just too typical for the technique, hehe.
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  #13  
Old 2006-08-31, 04:18
Demogorgon Demogorgon is offline
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So, this guy's lesson do actually seem to work then...
Too bad it's so expensive.
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  #14  
Old 2006-08-31, 05:19
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CompelledToLacerate CompelledToLacerate is offline
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I know I'm not suppose to ask this, but what is the deal with these Axis pedals I keep see being brought up in all these double bass threads when the Heel/toe technique is mentioned? What's special about them and should I get them?
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Quote:
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It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
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  #15  
Old 2006-08-31, 07:03
Demogorgon Demogorgon is offline
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I think it's mainly because they are so light, and they have a long footboard (well, the longboards do) so it's easier to do heel toe. Even tho' people say you can do heel toe on every pedal, long or short, it's just a matter of technique...wich i do not master...at all.
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  #16  
Old 2006-08-31, 13:09
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Cool just posting

double bass is a great tool, you can actualy do the timing if u want, esp. for the tab of disasterpiece.!
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