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-   -   What's up with mic cupping? (http://metaltabs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43552)

SuspendedByTheThroat 2010-04-26 11:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Empire
I cup the mic all the time when I'm not playing guitar. Nothing should be considered cheating, how is using a specific technique to achieve a desired sound and achieving it cheating? It's like saying using a wah pedal is cheating.


exactly.

I usually use a one-hand half-cup on the mic when doing mid-growl vocals, and when i want to get some gritty gurgly squeely vocals i cup the microphone,
similar to old Impending Doom's style.

7-string warlord 2010-04-26 20:05

I don't even sing in my band anymore. This thread is dead and gone.

projectvenusblake 2010-12-04 07:45

Well, if anyone happens upon this thread wondering about mic cupping, I am here to answer.

I've been doing vocals for about five years now(I'm 17). I'm currently in a technical/progressive/death metal band and a Metalcore band. From my experience, if your equipment can't get loud enough over the rest of the band, it is almost a necessity to use mic cupping techniques for volume. Even in recording, it can help to cup a mic if you are given a sm58 to record with, just watch out for the wind you're blowing out. In recording, mic cupping is more about lowering your tone, but sound engineers can do that post production anyway so they will probably tell you to NOT cup the mic to avoid excess wind.

Generally I do false vocal chord low and mids with fry highs. My screams are very contrasted with extremely low (Big Chocolate Low or even lower) and extremely high (a little less high than Chelsea Grin high). Trust me, with highs you do NOT want to cup the mic, just hold it closer to your mouth. If you cup while doing highs(if you're doing false chord or fry screaming) then the volume will be excessively loud and it will sound like shit because your microphone will most likely be unable to pick up that many decibels that close to its picking pattern.

Everyone cups the mic and it is actually not an easy thing to do, especially when you are playing death metal and genres with similar vocals. The quality of the sound produced from mic cupping has a LOT to do with the quality of your microphone, your volume, the size of your hands and even what kind of mic cupping technique you use. It takes a lot of skill to be able to play a whole show (40 minute slot with 6+ songs) using a cupping technique. Hell, it takes a lot of skill just to play a whole show. Anyway, that is just my input on mic cupping. I use it, it works, but sometimes it can be more of a chore than a blessing.

ExhumedCarcass 2010-12-04 15:11

The fuck did you just say? It takes no skill to cup a mic. None. Unless of course you are paralyzed in the hand you are trying to cup with. It's just a different way to hold the mic and it produces different sounds based on that but, I don't care how long the set is it does not take skill and does not get harder with time.

projectvenusblake 2010-12-04 15:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExhumedCarcass
The fuck did you just say? It takes no skill to cup a mic. None. Unless of course you are paralyzed in the hand you are trying to cup with. It's just a different way to hold the mic and it produces different sounds based on that but, I don't care how long the set is it does not take skill and does not get harder with time.


Maybe not for you, but it definitely does for me. It wouldn't be a problem if I had an sm58. Let me explain this to you, because I didn't really go into enough depth on this.

I have two very shitty microphones.

One is a Phonic UM99 Cardiod Dynamic Microphone. It probably isn't worth more than a few dollars.

The other is a Sony F-V620 Omni Directional Dynamic Microphone. Now it is about as good quality as the Phonic(maybe a little better) except it costs about...60 bucks. Now, I don't know what kind of vocals you do, but I do diseased cow growling, as low pitched as big chocolate, probably lower. There is a LOT of air coming out of your mouth when you do that because of how small you must make the hole that your lips make and how slow you must vibrate your false chords. All of that air gets trapped when you cup a microphone, and guess where it goes? Right into the picking pattern of my shitty microphones. Do you know what that sounds like? It sounds like a news crew covering Hurricane Katrina with a camcorder.

This is my experience with mic cupping. I have to hold the mic in a very specific way to make sure that it does not sound like the hurricane katrina news crew covering hundred mph winds with a camcorder.

On top of that, I have this GREAT(sarcasm) PA that costs 200 bucks for the module AND two speakers, so as you can imagine the quality on that isn't magnificent. By the end of every show, I am exhausted anyway from screaming 500+ words in each 2-4 minute song for about 30 minutes straight. Having to also cup my shitty mic in a very specific way just so the performance is loud enough and good enough quality to get people to actually like my band amidst this exhaustion is very difficult. I also have to entertain the crowd since I am the front man. Pulling this off takes a LOT of practice. This is my experience with mic cupping. I don't know what yours is but it obviously was with nicer equipment than mine and not vocals like mine.

Sorry for the confusion.

ExhumedCarcass 2010-12-04 16:01

It's holding a mic no matter how you word it. Doing the uber low vocals does require it when using shitty equipment I agree with that but it still doesn't take skill. I have probably a shittier pa and shittier mics for practice but it doesn't take skill for me to go through an entire practice. My PA has only one small 8 or 10 inch speaker(I have two but I don't have a cord as I lent it to a guitarist one day and never got it back) and a radio shack mic. I practice for an hour minimum per band(I have a tech death and black metal band you can hear at the links below) each practice and by the end of that it does not get harder to hold a mic regardless of quality. And I'm a fatass who isn't afraid to move around while performing.

projectvenusblake 2010-12-04 18:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExhumedCarcass
It's holding a mic no matter how you word it. Doing the uber low vocals does require it when using shitty equipment I agree with that but it still doesn't take skill. I have probably a shittier pa and shittier mics for practice but it doesn't take skill for me to go through an entire practice. My PA has only one small 8 or 10 inch speaker(I have two but I don't have a cord as I lent it to a guitarist one day and never got it back) and a radio shack mic. I practice for an hour minimum per band(I have a tech death and black metal band you can hear at the links below) each practice and by the end of that it does not get harder to hold a mic regardless of quality. And I'm a fatass who isn't afraid to move around while performing.


I don't know if we are talking about the same thing here. The process of cupping the mic isn't hard. It is tedious to keep the mic cupped correctly so the shit doesn't fuck up for a whole performance. At the very least, I suspect most people wouldn't be able to do it the whole time whilst keeping their vocals sounding decent on their first attempt. It takes practice. It isn't something you can just do the first time you try it. You need to know what the fuck you are doing. Meh. I guess I just have a harder time with it then.

Aight ima revise this shit. If you are a pro mic cupper like exhumedcarcass over here, you can do this shit first attempt, nearly perfect with no effort :P.

If you are like me and are a perfectionist with bad mic cupping techniques, you'll be sitting there for a good twenty minutes just planning how you're going to cup the mic through a whole performance.

ExhumedCarcass 2010-12-05 02:17

Listen kid I really don't care who the fuck you are or what the fuck you think you are doing but mic cupping is mic cupping no matter how you look at it. It's HOLDING A MIC PERIOD. If it takes you that much effort to hold the mic that you would complain about how hard it is get the fuck out of metal. It's always going to be and always will be just holding a mic and if it really takes that much effort to make yourself sound good you obviously aren't doing something right. Oh and all this talk of i'm lower then big chocolate and as high as chelsea grin whoever the fuck they are, post samples or get the fuck out.

Paddy 2010-12-05 02:52

A debate about mic cupping really shouldn't be provoking this much animosity. Keep it civil in da hizzle.

P.S. Dyldo eats poopiturds.

Dyldo 2010-12-05 08:46

Look what you fuckers made the Pads do. It took us years to get him to recover and now he's reverted back.

Carry on.

P.S. If anyone wants to finger my fat Downs syndrome sister PM me your deets and I'll get back to you. $5 for 10 minutes or $10 for 25, no lube necessary because between her drooling and my (Dylan's) tendency to cream pie her several times a day you'll slide right in there like a bullet being fired from a silenced sniper rifle into the ocean.

wapbamboo 2010-12-06 15:20

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExhumedCarcass
Listen kid I really don't care who the fuck you are or what the fuck you think you are doing but mic cupping is mic cupping no matter how you look at it. It's HOLDING A MIC PERIOD. If it takes you that much effort to hold the mic that you would complain about how hard it is get the fuck out of metal. It's always going to be and always will be just holding a mic and if it really takes that much effort to make yourself sound good you obviously aren't doing something right. Oh and all this talk of i'm lower then big chocolate and as high as chelsea grin whoever the fuck they are, post samples or get the fuck out.


Heyhey chill. I'm pretty sure he's just saying that it can be difficult to know when to cup/when not to cup the mic for the new guys.

I do agree on the samples though, I'd like to hear this PVB's voice

projectvenusblake 2010-12-07 18:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by wapbamboo
Heyhey chill. I'm pretty sure he's just saying that it can be difficult to know when to cup/when not to cup the mic for the new guys.

I do agree on the samples though, I'd like to hear this PVB's voice


Yeah that is pretty much all I was trying to say, sorry guys.
I'll post a sample if you'd like. Holds up, new thread on the way.

On second thought, I'll just add a linky here.

projectvenusblake 2010-12-07 19:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by projectvenusblake
Yeah that is pretty much all I was trying to say, sorry guys.
I'll post a sample if you'd like. Holds up, new thread on the way.

On second thought, I'll just add a linky here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP1wg_E54zY

wapbamboo 2010-12-08 13:55

omg hand cupper u suk u suk

wapbamboo 2010-12-08 13:57

how the fuck do you get that low?
also, do you have AIM?

i need someone to pester with my vocal questions

projectvenusblake 2010-12-08 18:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by wapbamboo
how the fuck do you get that low?
also, do you have AIM?

i need someone to pester with my vocal questions


Hand cupping helps muffle the sound a bit(lol above comment)
but most of it comes from adding filters with my tongue and lips. Here are some main contributors to my lows.

1.The size of the hole (that your lips make) gets and the positioning of your tongue have a lot to do with pitch. Smaller hole, deeper scream.
2.Pushing more air out helps.
3.My singing vocal range is kind of low set.

My AIM is DearestEmiry
feel free to add me and ask questions if you so please.

I appreciate your kind words! :D

wapbamboo 2010-12-09 06:00

I'll make a small hole and force some air out, but at this stage it's pretty crackly and awful sounding. After about 20 minutes of practicing, it'll sound nice, but then I stop shortly thereafter to give myself a break

Dyldo 2010-12-09 11:44

When I force air out of my small hole, it smells funny. How do you stop that?


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