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-   -   where to move from pentatonics. modes other scales? (http://metaltabs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42966)

captkickass 2009-01-06 10:05

where to move from pentatonics. modes other scales?
 
Hey im new here. Been playing guitar for a while. All i ever did for 10+ years is play metallica and slayer riffs etc. I have also put the guitar down for years at a times.

Any ways ive decided a couple months ago that i want to shred/solo(cause i can play) So as of lately ive been doing nothing but playing eminor pentatonic all over the fret board(to the point where i can play it with my eyes closed) and writing my own melodic riffs to this scale.

I am wondering where to move to next. Modes? Other scales? Minor pentatonic in other keys? I was hoping to get suggestions where to move onto next that would benefit my shred/soloing techniques.

Ive been reading this forum for i bit more than a month now, especially the scales sweeps page. Before deciding to post.

Hope this isnt a repetitive post. Just looking for people who could shred to point me in the right direction

davie_gravy 2009-01-06 19:35

Work on your arpeggios and practice sweeping across them. That's a definite shred technique. Also, work on 3 to 4 notes per string legato runs. Nothing spells shred more than lightning quick legato licks. You could still work in E minor if you want, but I would always recommend learning other scales (major, minor, pentatonics, etc) but if you're just wanting to hammer out techniques, then work in E minor (I did). Oh, don't forget tapping techniques. You missed a killer issue of Guitar World a couple issues ago... went over all these techniques for shred heads.

Arsis 2009-01-07 00:21

I still don't get the difference between a mode and a scale.

Valtiel 2009-01-07 06:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsis
I still don't get the difference between a mode and a scale.


The terms are pretty interchangable, they arent exactly two seperate things.

A scale is a just a series of notes arranged by pitch going from the root to the octave. So a "mode" is also technically a "scale".

A Mode is just different shapes within a scale, example:

1 octave of G Major = G-A-B-C-D-E-F#-G

1 octave of A Dorian = A-B-C-D-E-F#-G-A

1 octave of B Phrygian = B-C-D-E-F#-G-A-B

The G major will usually be referred to as a scale, but it can also be called the Ionian mode.

When playing in the key of G major, all of the other "modes" in the same key use the same notes, they just start from a different root. Out of context, they all sound the same, but when you play them over a guitar rhythm using the same corresponding notes as the mode you are playing in, they each take on their own unique sound. Carlos Santana's signature sound comes in large part from playing in Dorian, Joe Satriani with Lydian.

Nemesis9 2009-01-07 07:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by davie_gravy
You missed a killer issue of Guitar World a couple issues ago... went over all these techniques for shred heads.


I got some other instructional stuff on shredding which I could upload. PM me if interested.

captkickass 2009-01-07 10:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtiel
The terms are pretty interchangable, they arent exactly two seperate things.

A scale is a just a series of notes arranged by pitch going from the root to the octave. So a "mode" is also technically a "scale".

A Mode is just different shapes within a scale, example:

1 octave of G Major = G-A-B-C-D-E-F#-G

1 octave of A Dorian = A-B-C-D-E-F#-G-A

1 octave of B Phrygian = B-C-D-E-F#-G-A-B

The G major will usually be referred to as a scale, but it can also be called the Ionian mode.

When playing in the key of G major, all of the other "modes" in the same key use the same notes, they just start from a different root. Out of context, they all sound the same, but when you play them over a guitar rhythm using the same corresponding notes as the mode you are playing in, they each take on their own unique sound. Carlos Santana's signature sound comes in large part from playing in Dorian, Joe Satriani with Lydian.


thanks for the definition between modes and scales. i am gonna find the dorian and phrygian for e pentonic minor. and start incorporate these in my melodic licks.

also you know what i think would be a good idea for a sticky thread. video links to shred lessons and techniques in one thread.

hey Valtiel. the i dont have to change the root of the mode, to make it fit with in the same scale?

davie_gravy 2009-01-07 23:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis9
I got some other instructional stuff on shredding which I could upload. PM me if interested.


What format? Videos? Is it copyright material?


captkickass: Dorian and Phrygian (and the rest of the modes) are not part of the Pentatonic scale (5 note scale), they are part of the Major scale (7 note scale) and the modes only sound good over their relative type of chord (major, minor, etc). You don't wanna shred B Phrygian over a E minor progression, it will sound like shit with emphasis on the root. You'll end up finding that the notes that do work well are E minor based modes (E Dorian, E Phrygian, E Aeolian <-- which are the same notes as B Phrygian only starting on E), even though B Phrygian is a mode of E minor (Aeolian here). Clear as mud?

Nemesis9 2009-01-08 02:45

format is pdf

and you got a pm

captkickass 2009-01-09 09:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by davie_gravy
What format? Videos? Is it copyright material?


captkickass: Dorian and Phrygian (and the rest of the modes) are not part of the Pentatonic scale (5 note scale), they are part of the Major scale (7 note scale) and the modes only sound good over their relative type of chord (major, minor, etc). You don't wanna shred B Phrygian over a E minor progression, it will sound like shit with emphasis on the root. You'll end up finding that the notes that do work well are E minor based modes (E Dorian, E Phrygian, E Aeolian <-- which are the same notes as B Phrygian only starting on E), even though B Phrygian is a mode of E minor (Aeolian here). Clear as mud?


so what modes go with eminor pentatonic. so for the ignorance. i just started getting into modes

davie_gravy 2009-01-09 20:13

You know... I don't really know the names of the modes for the minor pentatonic scale. They're really abstract only having 5 notes. I never really play modally out of the pentatonic scale usually just positionally, but assuming Em as your theme, E Dorian, E Phrygian, and E Aeolian will work over it. Obviously, it depends on what other chords (or notes) you have in this Em theme that best determine what mode will sound best over it.

Laaz-Rockit1988 2009-01-20 12:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by captkickass
Hey im new here. Been playing guitar for a while. All i ever did for 10+ years is play metallica and slayer riffs etc. I have also put the guitar down for years at a times.

Any ways ive decided a couple months ago that i want to shred/solo(cause i can play) So as of lately ive been doing nothing but playing eminor pentatonic all over the fret board(to the point where i can play it with my eyes closed) and writing my own melodic riffs to this scale.

I am wondering where to move to next. Modes? Other scales? Minor pentatonic in other keys? I was hoping to get suggestions where to move onto next that would benefit my shred/soloing techniques.

Ive been reading this forum for i bit more than a month now, especially the scales sweeps page. Before deciding to post.

Hope this isnt a repetitive post. Just looking for people who could shred to point me in the right direction



I got stuck in that same pentatonic rut also. What i did was i learnt the minor scale and major scale of the key i was playing the pentatonic scale in then added runs from these scales.

For example i learnt A minor pentatonic, added notes from the A minor scale (you should look up a few lessons on minor scale licks) then did the same with the C major scale. Because C major has the same notes as A minor. (C maj is the realative major to A minor).

What REALLY helped me expand this was learning what chords belonged to this key. Because when you know what chords are in that key, you can learn which arpeggios will work well with that key.

For example: - the chords of C major are...

C major - D minor - E minor - F major - G7 - A minor - B diminished.


Now with this information you can sweep using these arpeggios and knowing where the different varations of these are on the fretboard, you can sweep up and down the neck and still be in key.

Also adding notes from the Harmonic minor of that scale will greatly improve your shredding ideas also, so if its A minor your playing in, learn the A harmonic minor, if its E minor your playing in, learn E harmonic minor.


Hope this helps

brainsforbreakfast 2009-01-31 07:11

The major scale (and it's modes) seems like a natural progression from pentatonic.

There are 7 different modes for the major scale. But in essence, it's just the same. The only difference between them is that the have a bit of a different 'shape', so you'll start on a different root note.
Though, you only need to learn one scale/mode, and can skip to a different mode by starting on a different note.


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