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-   -   Eq pedal - Analog or digital? (http://metaltabs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41624)

Carbonized 2008-10-10 17:55

Eq pedal - Analog or digital?
 
Hi, everyone

I recently bought a BOSS GE-7 EQ pedal and when I went to try it, I found it produces a lot of hiss, humming and just general noise. I was wondering whether anyone else may have experienced this before? I just bought it recently and haven't had much time to try it out properly so maybe I may be doing something wrong. I don't know...
I connect it between the guitar and the amp and it's the only pedal I use. When the sliders are at 0 (flat eq), there's no noise whatsoever but as soon as I move even one slider up or down, I get an annoying hiss coming out from the speakers.

Anyway, the main reason I'm writing is because I got curious about [B]digital[B] eq pedals. Would that make a difference? That is, would the hissing I'm getting be due to the fact that the GE-7 is an analog pedal with a transistor and stuff?
When I used to use my old Zoom 3030 multi-effects pedal (digital pedal), I don't remember experiencing hiss/hum/noise etc. problems.

Thanks and I'm looking forward to your replies! :beer:

Carbonized 2008-10-11 16:57

Hi, all

I think I found out why the eq pedal makes noise. I just found out that apparently, this eq pedal can't be put BEFORE the overdrive/distortion channel of the amp. It has to be put AFTER the overdrive/distortion.

So, basically I think one can't use one's amp distortion when using this pedal. (Don't know if the same thing applies to all eq pedals). The amp has to be set to the clean channel, not the overdrive channel. To use the eq pedal, one has to use a distortion pedal. That's where the distortion has to come from. Not from the amp.

This sucks. I want to use my amp's distortion, not a transistor pedal distortion. Seems like it's not possible if one wants to use this eq pedal. And connecting it via the FX loop is not advisable, by the way.

So basically, I'll try and get rid of this pedal since I've still got the guarantee.

I hope this info was useful. I don't know if I made much sense 'cause I'm sleepy :sleeping: but anyway. :D

the_bleeding 2008-10-16 12:38

the boss is just a generally noisy pedal. I have an mxr 10 band and its nice and quiet. Also, i keep it in my fx loop so that might make a difference.

Carbonized 2008-10-21 01:00

Hey, the_bleeding! Thanks for the reply.

The BOSS GE-7 eq pedal was made to be connected in between the guitar and the amp (not in the fx loop). At least that's what the manual says! I connected it to the amp's clean channel and got zero hiss/hum/noise etc. It's when I connect it to the amp's overdrive channels that it starts to produce noise.
I thought about connecting it to the FX Loop but I don't know... if it wasn't made to be connected to the FX Loop, I'd rather not try it and get a pedal that is made to be connected to the FX Loop.

I'll look into the MXR 10-band eq pedal. Is that an FX Loop pedal or like the GE-7 that goes in between the guitar and the amp?

Carbonized 2008-10-21 01:10

Ok, I just downloaded the MXR 10-band EQ pedal manual and it says that the pedal can be connected either between the guitar and the amp or in the FX loop. Cool!

It says: "Placing the MXR before a distortion effect will shape the harmonic content of the distortion."
"Placing the MXR after a distortion effect will allow you to customize the overall distortion tone."
"Where you place the EQ in the signal chain will have a dramatic effect on how it shapes your sound, so experiment to find the placement that best suits your needs."

Sounds great!

the_bleeding 2008-10-21 14:50

the manual is lying to you. stick it in the loop.

what amp are you running anyway?

Carbonized 2008-10-23 00:17

In the loop, huh? Thought so. That would put it post-distortion, I guess. I'm going to try it and yeah, the manual doesn't say anything about connecting it to the FX Loop (!).

So, I went to the store where I got the pedal from to tell them about the problem. I tried out the pedal on an amp there... and no hiss and noise except for a tiny bit which was normal 'cause we moved all the sliders to max just to test the pedal to the max, you know...
Anyway, I finally remembered that I had read a review on Harmony Central where this user mentioned that there are some issues with this BOSS EQ pedal and tube amps.
The amp I tried it on at the store was a solid-state amp. Mine is an all-tube amp. Anyway, if this is the case, then I think BOSS should state this in their manual and on their website. Something like "This pedal works best with solid-state amplifiers."

And the amp I'm running is a Marshall JCM 2000 DSL 401 combo. (No resonance and presence knobs, single speaker (stock, too)... I'm considering getting a 6505+.)

the_bleeding 2008-10-23 10:21

Manual isnt the end-all for effects man :p. If it was, nothing new would ever be created hahaha. Seriously, try it in the fx loop.

And if the eq is noisy, it will be more or less noisy on any amp. Tube and SS don't make a difference, its how the signal is amplified in the amp that decides how much noise is going on. The amount of noise will increase with the gain knob.

Seriously though, put it in the loop. It does wonders.

And considering a 6505+? Really? You live in europe! Engl's are cheaper than peavey's there! Seriously, i think you should check out the fireball. Peaveys are biased very cold and only really start singing after you mod them a bit... and more expensive than engls hahahha. Its funny, in north america, everybody sees peavey as lower line equipment... that being said, the 6505 is a wicked metal amp... i just think the engl fireball is 10x better. The fireball is a lot quieter too.

Carbonized 2008-10-30 06:10

True. Nothing's written in stone. I didn't try it in the FX loop just in case it would damage it. Highly improbable but I didn't want to take any risks 'cause I was going to return it.
I want to get an MXR eq pedal. It's got more bands and can be hooked up either in between the guitar and the amp or in the FX loop. Sounds good to me.
By the way, I heard that connecting FX in the FX loop alters your guitar woods and pickup tone to a lesser degree or something to that effect, since the effects are places at the end of the amp's structure.

Regarding ENGL amps, I'm looking into an Invader 150. What's your opinion on that one?

the_bleeding 2008-11-06 15:40

it wont damage it in the fx loop. Its literally impossible. Loops are designed for 2 things, pedals and racks. If you have a rack loop, it will have a ton more current in it, but it still wont damage anything, it will just sound bad.
tl;dr putting shit in the loop will NEVER damage anything


and the invader is insane. 4 amps in one. It gets you a fender, a marshall, a mesa, and an engl... all in one box. crazy ass amp. You should try it out.

Amplitude 2008-11-06 23:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bleeding
the manual is lying to you. stick it in the loop.

what amp are you running anyway?
I disagree. Sticking it in the loop makes it post-distortion EQ. You already have that shit built in to your amp, why do you need an EQ pedal to do it for you again? Sticking it before the distortion is significantly less responsive, but instead of shaping your frequencies after all the gain amplification has been done, it shapes the frequencies being multiplied by the gain stages. Its kind of like how different pickups can have different frequency response. I'm not talking about gain here, I'm talking about tone. I use my MXR 10 band before the amp, because I like to be able to boost my mids both before and after the gain. It gives a bit more of a dynamic sound, and cutting the bass and/or treble before the distortion can sometimes tighten up the bass (get rid of mud, ect.) and/or remove some fizz, respectively.

the_bleeding 2008-11-07 05:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amplitude
I disagree. Sticking it in the loop makes it post-distortion EQ. You already have that shit built in to your amp, why do you need an EQ pedal to do it for you again? Sticking it before the distortion is significantly less responsive, but instead of shaping your frequencies after all the gain amplification has been done, it shapes the frequencies being multiplied by the gain stages. Its kind of like how different pickups can have different frequency response. I'm not talking about gain here, I'm talking about tone. I use my MXR 10 band before the amp, because I like to be able to boost my mids both before and after the gain. It gives a bit more of a dynamic sound, and cutting the bass and/or treble before the distortion can sometimes tighten up the bass (get rid of mud, ect.) and/or remove some fizz, respectively.


putting an eq in the loop allows you to tailor your sound MUCH more accurately than any tone stack eq. You can choose which specific frequencies you want in, and which ones you want out. For example, for metal, you will typically want heavy sub bass, moderate bass, a fair amount of low mids, enough mids to cut, reduced high mids to reduce fizz, and very specific treble range to reduce fizz and keep it crunchy but not soft. If your amp inherently lacks low mids, and has fizzy treble (like mine), putting an eq is the solution. With an eq, you can override some of the inherent characteristics of any amp. As an example, my amp tends to lack low mids, have excessive high mids and treble fizz and have a soft low end, therefore i put low end in with my eq, low mids to give it growl, and take out the 8khz freqs to kill the fizz. It has a serious thickening effect.

You cant do that as surgically when putting it infront of the amp. Putting it in front only changes the general eq of your guitar and its harmonic overtones, but then they all get shaved down by the tonestack anyway. Also, if you have a tone where you like the level of attack, and crunch, but theres too much fizz, and dialing that out with the amp eq means dialing away your tone, then an eq in the loop is the perfect choice to take out the nuances you dislike, and add to the nuances that you do like

Now, for tips, the way you get tight and heavy tone is you take the bass out of the input, and put it back in after the gain stages. Input bass gives you soft attack, because bass gets soft when its distorted, and loses its sub frequencies. Therefore you put the low lows in AFTER distortion. Many amps, such as my marshall, have soft bass on their own eq knob. No real rumble, and it limited by its sweep. Therefore, to get the type of bass response i want, i can only do it with an eq in the loop. To take lows out of the input, i use an overdrive, it just cuts out the lowest ones that will soften my attack in the input, adds some high mids to make it more marshally, and adds gain (which i need because the amp's own gain lacks saturation).

Carbonized 2008-11-07 12:45

Wow, we're going into detail here. :)

Anyway, thanks for the info about hooking up pedals to the amp, buddy.

As for the amp I'll buy... seems like I'll be going for a Peavey 6505+. It's because I've got a good deal available: The store owner offered to make a part exchange for my Marshall combo (which I had bought from him). I'll go and try out the Peavey 6505+ and if it's good enough for my tastes, I'll get it and with the money that I would have saved, I'll get a good cab or maybe two (for a full stack). :vampire: I haven't got too many alternatives, I'm afraid. I can't afford a new amp and cabs right now and if I do, I'd be left with my Marshall combo to get rid of. That would be a considerable problem 'cause I live on a tiny island and the market is restricted, so to speak. And besides, it's an all-tube amp. I paid a lot for it. To sell it, I'd probably have to sell it at the price of a solid-state amp or something.
Anyway, ENGL amps may not be my thing after all. They come with EL34 tubes, if I'm not mistaken. Same tubes Marshall use. EL34's apparently attenuate the low end and high end when overdriven, resulting in a middy-tone. That's fine for some, but I'm a "scooped mids" bastard I guess hehe. I prefer the "American tone" of 6L6s. :)
I could re-tube/re-bias the ENGL for 6L6s, I guess, but I think I'll just go for the Peavey 6505+.

the_bleeding 2008-11-07 15:26

engls come with el34's? well that certainly depends on the model. Only the SE el34, invaders and steve morse have el34's. The SE is available to come with 6l6's. The savage comes with 6550's. The powerball and fireball coem wtih 6l6's, and the blackmore, screamer, and thunder come with 5881's (6l6 variants)

Now, the SE has 2 models (el34, 6l6) so that you can choose your favorite tube for it... because its a battleship... Engl tailors their preamps and poweramps for eachother, so i dont know whether they tailored the preamps for the different powertubes, or tailored the different poweramps for the same preamps.... but they're very specific when it comes to tuning their amps.

The invader was originally designed as 6xel34 at 150 watts to keep the power section SUPER CLEAN at high volumes, as to disallow for attenuation of lows and highs at high volumes, yet still have pronounced mids. The 100 watt version came out later to make it more available with a less expensive (not really) price, but still, i dont think you'll A) pay the rediculous amount of money the cost, and B) i dont think you'll get it loud enough to attenuate those lows... we're talking 7+ on the master volume... and at 2 or 3 your balls will be flapping in the soundwaves.

The steve morse has el34s because... thats what steve morse wanted :p

The rest of em, 6l6's or 5881's. Keeps it flat responsive, but big bass and good highs.

But if you have a deal on a 6505within your limited market, then go for it. Play it first though so you know you like it ;). The 6505+ has a bias circuit in it, so it will sound good. For cabs, please please PLEASE do not get the 6505 cab. It is terrible, and it will be expensive because you're in europe. The 6505 will sound good on marshall cabs, engl cabs, framus cabs... you name it. They love v30s, and they love g12t-75's. In fact, if i were you, i'd probably make an uber cab with 2 v30s and 2 t-75's in an X pattern.

Carbonized 2008-11-17 19:18

Haha "your balls will be flapping in the soundwaves". I like that haha.

Anyway, I just checked out that ENGL Special Edition amp. Like you said, it seems to have everything! I don't remember seeing an amp with as many knobs. Cool.

And yes, I was actually thinking of doing that x-pattern speaker cab with V30s and t-75s. :) Randall make one exactly with that configuration, apparently, so I might just get that one.

Dude, there's got to be a way for you to get the ENGL you want. Me and everyone else here should make a collection for ya! :)


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