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-   -   NMPA letter. Tabs are down. (http://metaltabs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36913)

JOAMdude 2007-04-10 11:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by knives
I do also...

Here is an interesting link about this crap.

Also, it should be of note that ultimate-guitar.com has received one of these letters, and decided to stand up to the douche bags. I think metal tabs should do the same. :flame: :uzi: :flame: :uzi: :kaioken:


stick it to the man!

suffocation 2007-04-10 11:51

WTF this is complete bs!

Pr0az 2007-04-10 12:13

I'll post about some legal matters on it the situation when i get off of work...

But hey guys it least we have each other and Aim to share shit with....

Pr0az 2007-04-10 12:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by knives
I do also...

Here is an interesting link about this crap.

Also, it should be of note that ultimate-guitar.com has received one of these letters, and decided to stand up to the douche bags. I think metal tabs should do the same. :flame: :uzi: :flame: :uzi: :kaioken:



UG is not forced to stand up to anyone...their server is located in Russia, im not too sure where this server is located. However, in Russia it is perfectly legal to have tabs on websites because they pay some sort of due at the end of each year or each month to have the right to do so. Russians dont give a fuck aslong as it lands money in the goverments pocket.(Yes this money goes to the goverment if im not mistakin)

knives 2007-04-10 13:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pr0az
UG is not forced to stand up to anyone...their server is located in Russia, im not too sure where this server is located. However, in Russia it is perfectly legal to have tabs on websites because they pay some sort of due at the end of each year or each month to have the right to do so. Russians dont give a fuck aslong as it lands money in the goverments pocket.(Yes this money goes to the goverment if im not mistakin)

Ah, I see. Maybe this site should get a Russian server. :D
Or maybe that's not possible, I speak from ignorance...

Casketcrusher 2007-04-10 14:27

This sucks fucking cock. I say stand up to them. Let's get members from bands to talk to them. Didn't Muhhumad of Necrophagist tab stuff out and Mike Kimbal from Dying Fetus?

Zuber 2007-04-10 15:30

Oh man.
Mysongbook was first. Now Metaltabs. Now we have to wait. argh
when are "we" going to work again?!

No Heart 2007-04-10 16:42

Aw FUCK!! DAMIT! I'm sure youve all heard of taborama, In my opinion that site was the best, but the same thing happened their, in the end Jer (admin) closed it all down, and all of us heard rumors of him going to jail...? Well whatever, Im probably not going to come on this forum again, I've been writing allot of my own music, and I finally know how to read notes, and I really appreciate all your guys help (yes its a compliment and a thank you), I hope one day ill here your guys music on TV or something, have a good life, and keep all your music ALIVE!!!

-No heart/Dylan (if you want to add me on msn its: maniacmanik@hotmail.com)

Sycophant 2007-04-10 18:37

What I don't understand is, if it's mandated by the site's submission policy to include the copyright information for the tab to be posted in the first place, then what problem does the NMPA have? Is that not good enough for them? I do not see a legitimate legal reason as to why the NMPA would go after tab sites. The argument that "People can get [tabs] for free on the internet, and it's hurting the songwriters" as said by MPA president Lauren Keiser from Knive's article he posted is totally irrational. I do not know ANY tab site that generates profit; it's not like we have a registration fee and a tab d/l'ing fee or whatever, THEN I would see a reason as to why the NMPA would be pissed, but if we're just putting in our own hours and time trying to figure out our favorite tunes and share our discoveries with others in a decent and functional internet environment, then what problem do they have? They certainly aren't losing any money and we certainly aren't making any.

Another thing I don't get - if Luc Lemay and Luke Kenny are allowed to post their own tabs and approved tabs from other people of their own songs (Gorguts and Berzerker respectively) on their OWN webspaces, what is the damn difference? Why aren't they going for every single piece of tablature on the internet? I think it's ridiculous that the NMPA is targeting Internet tab sites. If this was all on paper then it would all be ok, the fact that this is on the internet makes it wrong? Bullshit. It only makes tab sites easier targets because they are easy to find. The NMPA may have it's own legal reasoning as to why tab sites can be shut down, but without an actual challenge back, we could never know if this was actually legit or not. I know I'm not the only one who doesn't think it is. The argument goes that posting tabs of songs is a violation of copyright protection because they are "derivative works" of the original songs. But this site mandates input of copyright information about the song into the tab before the tab is even archived. Some of us even put warnings at the header of the tabs that go "This file is the author's own work and represents their interpretation of the song. You may only use this file for private study, scholarship, or research."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy
What business is it of theirs unless they are directly employed by specific bands or directly employed by publishing groups representing said bands? It doesn't make sense, it's as if there's a generalised onslaught against tabs regardless of who fuckin' owns 'em. In that case, they have no grounds to "order" you to do anything.

You're right. They have no business or legal grounds at all, they are just seeking out tab sites to destroy because 1) they are easy prey, 2) they are easy to find, 3) most of them have given in, and 4) most have never even fought back in the first place.

With that all said, I will support MetalTabs.com however I can.

Desecrated 2007-04-10 19:14

I will be licensed to practice law in less than one month. They have no case, only fear and money. NEVER buy RIAA CDs.

Cunty Shunt 2007-04-10 20:46

Gay. Fucking so dumb.

Transient 2007-04-10 20:49

dumb

pull_the_plug 2007-04-10 21:41

http://nmpa.org/contact/index.asp


Everyone should these tell fuckers to shove it...

tmfreak 2007-04-10 22:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sycophant
What I don't understand is, if it's mandated by the site's submission policy to include the copyright information for the tab to be posted in the first place, then what problem does the NMPA have? Is that not good enough for them? I do not see a legitimate legal reason as to why the NMPA would go after tab sites. The argument that "People can get [tabs] for free on the internet, and it's hurting the songwriters" as said by MPA president Lauren Keiser from Knive's article he posted is totally irrational. I do not know ANY tab site that generates profit; it's not like we have a registration fee and a tab d/l'ing fee or whatever, THEN I would see a reason as to why the NMPA would be pissed, but if we're just putting in our own hours and time trying to figure out our favorite tunes and share our discoveries with others in a decent and functional internet environment, then what problem do they have? They certainly aren't losing any money and we certainly aren't making any.

Another thing I don't get - if Luc Lemay and Luke Kenny are allowed to post their own tabs and approved tabs from other people of their own songs (Gorguts and Berzerker respectively) on their OWN webspaces, what is the damn difference? Why aren't they going for every single piece of tablature on the internet? I think it's ridiculous that the NMPA is targeting Internet tab sites. If this was all on paper then it would all be ok, the fact that this is on the internet makes it wrong? Bullshit. It only makes tab sites easier targets because they are easy to find. The NMPA may have it's own legal reasoning as to why tab sites can be shut down, but without an actual challenge back, we could never know if this was actually legit or not. I know I'm not the only one who doesn't think it is. The argument goes that posting tabs of songs is a violation of copyright protection because they are "derivative works" of the original songs. But this site mandates input of copyright information about the song into the tab before the tab is even archived. Some of us even put warnings at the header of the tabs that go "This file is the author's own work and represents their interpretation of the song. You may only use this file for private study, scholarship, or research."


You're right. They have no business or legal grounds at all, they are just seeking out tab sites to destroy because 1) they are easy prey, 2) they are easy to find, 3) most of them have given in, and 4) most have never even fought back in the first place.

With that all said, I will support MetalTabs.com however I can.


I know how you feel but you have alot of holes in your arguement. Just because you post something and say "put copyright information on it" doesn't negate anything other than who "originally" wrote the music. But what if its not even the band labeled? Is it still "copyright protected"? And further asking the question how "protected" is it if ANYBODY can visit and see it regardless of royalties to the band?

Shouldn't a band have the right to protect who does and doesn't recieve their music? Be it by mp3 or a transcribed version in a .txt file or .html file? I'm not saying a single band on this website wouldn't allow tabs to be on this or any other website, i'm just stating "the other side" which is at times a pretty hefty thing to go over.

Now what was raised before about the legality of some other agent filing claims with no affiliation with the said victims, is a good arguement. If there are bands "covered" by the "mpa" well then thats one thing, but if there is not, then thats another entirely.


Also tab sites i imagine DO hurt sales of tab BOOKS. Why buy a tab book that is sometimes expensive as shit when you can do it on the internet for free? Sure some attempt to make the arguement, "well if a band provides a tab book i would get it because its accurate transcriptions of the songs unlike tabs". I will call bullshit all day long, and so will others. Anybody who in a right mind attempts to say that they would buy most bands tab books (if offered) over viewing internet tabs is a liar. Unless they already have a moral objection to tabs, and i'm pretty sure nobody reading this does. (Note i used the word most, because its one thing to buy a single tab book or maybe 2, its another entirely to learn songs purely by buying tab books, or the alternative, by ear)

Sure this makes me all sound like the bad guy, but the fact is i hate what they're doing just as much as the next guy, and intuition tells me they're on extremely shakey legal ground, (which this entire issue actually is).

AaronDonahue 2007-04-10 22:29

He who controls your eyeballs and ears controls your brain.

FilthyCadaver 2007-04-10 22:36

This is fuckin' despicable beyond belief. Goddamn those greedy cash whores. The worst part is, every other site that said they would "resolve legal issues" never did, and never went back up. This BETTER not be the fate of metal tabs. This site is easily the best metal tab site out there. The majority of the bands tabbed here would support this site, not those greedy fucks. Not to mention that the majority of bands on this site don't even have tab books. This kind of shit just pisses me off big time.

Do you guys expect to ever get the tabs back up?

philkilla 2007-04-10 23:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmfreak
Also tab sites i imagine DO hurt sales of tab BOOKS. Why buy a tab book that is sometimes expensive as shit when you can do it on the internet for free? Sure some attempt to make the arguement, "well if a band provides a tab book i would get it because its accurate transcriptions of the songs unlike tabs". I will call bullshit all day long, and so will others. Anybody who in a right mind attempts to say that they would buy most bands tab books (if offered) over viewing internet tabs is a liar. Unless they already have a moral objection to tabs, and i'm pretty sure nobody reading this does. (Note i used the word most, because its one thing to buy a single tab book or maybe 2, its another entirely to learn songs purely by buying tab books, or the alternative, by ear)

It's another thing when bands don't release tab books (ala the vast majority of death metal bands)

tmfreak 2007-04-10 23:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by philkilla
It's another thing when bands don't release tab books (ala the vast majority of death metal bands)

Absolutely, and i'm with that 100%. Because most don't, for obvious economic reasons. Which presents quite a bit of problems and further greys the area of morality and legality with tab production.

painelements 2007-04-11 01:22

One of their arguments is that when using programs like guitar pro and powertab, you are able to play it back and it sounds like the original song. Therefore you have made a copy :rolleyes:

It's only the archive that is locked down I noticed. Pending tabs, incomplete and so forth are still available for download.

What next, sue anime fan art for duplicating the work of artists?

Vathek 2007-04-11 02:02

:mad:

What angers me the most about this is the moronic assumption that in a world where nothing was free wed really have BOUGHT a book for EVERY freaking tab that we used from this site (not even mentioning the fact that here we can pick specific songs the ones we really want to learn). Hey, I support the bands I like just like everybody else here, but Im not Bill Gates : I can only devote so much to CDs, concerts, instruments/equipment and tab books (I have 25 of them - EXCLUDING classical scores - and I think thats a lot considering that I've now become pretty good at tabbing songs :cool: )

Besides that, Im very puzzled as to how playing songs that you learned without an official tab book hurts the bands. I cant recall how many times I played a song to non-metalheads who thought metal sucked, but who started to like it because now it was played live in front of them and yes, who since became metal fans, bought CDs, went to concerts, etc. Im talking about my guitar students here mostly, but it also happened quite a few times when I was in high school. Not only its not hurting the bands in any way, its free promotion ! Sorry, but it doesn't hurt the bands, it's only a blow to those who're trying to benefit from them and aren't good enough at commerce (it would have hurt composers in Beethoven's time, but this is just not true anymore).

To sell your product, its simple, you have to make it more appealing than the competition (and not just appear more appealing); the newspapers have the same problem nowadays with blogs. One day the media giants will have to realize that their product stinks, if only because they are ordering us to buy it after theyve crushed the competition. :behead:


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