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-   -   "I have met the enemy and he is us." - Walt Kelly (http://metaltabs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36316)

Me himself 2007-03-11 22:57

"I have met the enemy and he is us." - Walt Kelly
 
I gotta write a little paper discussing this quote for English class. It's a really open-ended promt, I just wanna hear what some of ya'll think about it. Walt Kelly was the author of Pogo, a daily American comic strip which ran from 1948-1975. The episode, which dealt with environmental issues, was created for the first Earth Day in 1970. So post up, bitches!

belphegor79 2007-03-11 23:16

We will kill ourselves by man-made weaponry before we ever come close to changing the temperature of the planet. And before you give me the shit about "oh, well the temp of the planet has risen 1 degree in the last five years", just be hush for a minute. Do you really not believe that earth cycle changes can have a much more profound impact on weather than our use of aqua net?

belphegor79 2007-03-11 23:16

And by "you", I don't necessarily mean, you man.

CannibalXampire 2007-03-11 23:19

We and our enemies are not that different. Everyone is fighting for the same things, trying to avoid the same things. One is called a dictator, one a citizen appointed official, etc. Regardless, they're still fighting the same war, just on different sides. Wants. Desires. I dont know where Im going with this I am so fucking tired.

the_bleeding 2007-03-11 23:23

umm... we pollute. DUH!!! FUCKING EARTH DAY!!! nothing to do with weapons... i think its how our waste builds up.

could you build your thesis on analysing possible different meanigns? like we are the enemy because of war, or because of pollution, or what... or does it have to be like THIS MEANS THIS AND YOU'RE MY BITCH MOFUCKA!

or perhaps even arguing that this quote means nothing and he was jsut fucked up on acid. :p

far_beyond_sane 2007-03-11 23:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by belphegor79
And before you give me the shit about "oh, well the temp of the planet has risen 1 degree in the last five years", just be hush for a minute. Do you really not believe that earth cycle changes can have a much more profound impact on weather than our use of aqua net?


... What the fuck are you talking about?

belphegor79 2007-03-11 23:27

No question that pollution is harmful. I'm completely for anything that will limit the amount of CFC's that end up in the air. But, I just think we give ourselves way to much fucking credit if we say that global warming is our own doing.

belphegor79 2007-03-11 23:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by far_beyond_sane
... What the fuck are you talking about?

Is depth a problem for you, brother? He asked for what we thought about that quote, and that's the first thing that comes to mind. The fact that hippies will say anything to spin shit their way. Just like conservatives or anyone else with an agenda will spin shit their way.

Me himself 2007-03-12 00:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bleeding
umm... we pollute. DUH!!! FUCKING EARTH DAY!!! nothing to do with weapons... i think its how our waste builds up.

could you build your thesis on analysing possible different meanigns? like we are the enemy because of war, or because of pollution, or what... or does it have to be like THIS MEANS THIS AND YOU'RE MY BITCH MOFUCKA!

or perhaps even arguing that this quote means nothing and he was jsut fucked up on acid. :p


Well, like I said, it's very open-ended. But either way, war, pollution, etc. all fall under possible ways the human may bring on its own demise. So it's a matter of harnessing our nature per se, which I think will (naturally) be the deciding factor.

far_beyond_sane 2007-03-12 00:16

Obviously, it's a great problem. Let me explain my utter shallowness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by belphegor79
And before you give me the shit about "oh, well the temp of the planet has risen 1 degree in the last five years"


Do you really believe anyone with more than one sixth of a functional brain thinks this is evidence?

Quote:
Do you really not believe that earth cycle changes can have a much more profound impact on weather than our use of aqua net?


Which 'earth cycle changes' are you talking about, specifically?

Are you conflating 'the weather' with climate change?

What is aqua net? Is it like SkyNet? Does it want to go back in time and kill Sarah Connor?

Sum of above: refer to previous question.

belphegor79 2007-03-12 00:28

Well, first of all, it seems that only 1 sixth of the population are not that idiotic. Alright, I think I've mentioned this before, but Greenland actually used to bear grass, and Venice's canals have actually froze over. Ever hear of the ice age? Think maybe it wasn't caused by man's pollution? That's what will happen if the earth temp continues to rise. Ice caps will melt causing oceans to cool, causing harsh winter conditions.

Aqua Net is a cheap hairspray.

CompelledToLacerate 2007-03-12 01:02

I'm probably going to bomb on this, but I'm going to give it a try.

Do I believe that humans have contributed to the pollution of our planet? Yes. But when you think about it; Global Warming, ice caps melting and wather conditions worsening, could it really be prevented? If we weren't here, would any of this stuff NOT happen? I agree with belphegor on how we give overselves too much credit for bring upon this change. I think it's safe to say that it is inevitable.

The earth has undergone and endured many catastrophes in it's existance that have shaped it to what it is today, and the conditions created by these catastrophes made it possible for organisms to exist. As conditions changed, species evolved to keep up with the change. Global Warming and the conditions it will soon create will spark the era for a new and more advanced species.

Will we die out? Possibly. Is there anything we can do to prevent this? Doubt it, and even if there was a way, what gives us the right to do it? By trying to prevent Global Warming, we would be stifling and weakening us.

I read that quote now, and to me it says pretty mch the same thing; We are our own enemy, but not because we are "destroying" this planet. It's because we have a need to survive, no matter what, even if it means a life of stagnation.


Again, I probably fucked up completely with this post, and more than likely not helped this guy with his paper. I'm just jotting down what this quote made me think about.

belphegor79 2007-03-12 01:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by CompelledToLacerate
I'm probably going to bomb on this, but I'm going to give it a try.

Do I believe that humans have contributed to the pollution of our planet? Yes. But when you think about it; Global Warming, ice caps melting and wather conditions worsening, could it really be prevented? If we weren't here, would any of this stuff NOT happen? I agree with belphegor on how we give overselves too much credit for bring upon this change. I think it's safe to say that it is inevitable.

The earth has undergone and endured many catastrophes in it's existance that have shaped it to what it is today, and the conditions created by these catastrophes made it possible for organisms to exist. As conditions changed, species evolved to keep up with the change. Global Warming and the conditions it will soon create will spark the era for a new and more advanced species.

Will we die out? Possibly. Is there anything we can do to prevent this? Doubt it, and even if there was a way, what gives us the right to do it? By trying to prevent Global Warming, we would be stifling and weakening us.

I read that quote now, and to me it says pretty mch the same thing; We are our own enemy, but not because we are "destroying" this planet. It's because we have a need to survive, no matter what, even if it means a life of stagnation.


Again, I probably fucked up completely with this post, and more than likely not helped this guy with his paper. I'm just jotting down what this quote made me think about.

Actually, that was pretty well said. We can't be sure about anything. I mean, a super-volcano like the one under Yellowstone could go off, which would cause a world-wide famine. The earth can purge us in many ways.

problematic 2007-03-12 07:20

Quote:
Originally Posted by belphegor79
We will kill ourselves by man-made weaponry before we ever come close to changing the temperature of the planet. And before you give me the shit about "oh, well the temp of the planet has risen 1 degree in the last five years", just be hush for a minute. Do you really not believe that earth cycle changes can have a much more profound impact on weather than our use of aqua net?

Ok you're gay. You're just as fucking biased as your opposition. Does it matter what I fucking believe? If you make it a personal question you're being as ambiguous as you fucking want. Maybe if you asked a person who has studied the topic for years and years you could get an educated response. I highly doubt you are part of a research team or similar. No, internet articles don't cut it. Thanks for your opinion stated as fact with no evidence.

tmfreak 2007-03-12 12:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by problematic
Ok you're gay. You're just as fucking biased as your opposition. Does it matter what I fucking believe? If you make it a personal question you're being as ambiguous as you fucking want. Maybe if you asked a person who has studied the topic for years and years you could get an educated response. I highly doubt you are part of a research team or similar. No, internet articles don't cut it. Thanks for your opinion stated as fact with no evidence.


haha. Good one.
Yeah that "aqua net" threw me off. Hopefully its not some sort of water computer intelligence that is planning on taking over the human race via us polluting the globe and melting ice caps.

It started off for about 5 seconds as a decient response, then it just turned ridiculous haha. (Belphegors)

My ideas about global warming have definitely changed since being a geo major and taking geology classes.
I personally don't care whether we are "effecting" Co2 levels in the atmosphere not. Even with out "best" efforts I imagine we could never reproduce the changing effects of natural balancing processes of the globe.

Its obvious that with polar caps being melted that there would be a good bit of coastal cities that would eventually get flooded out, or significant human protection of the cities would be needed to maintain them, but so what? Its not an over night process thats for sure. Also kind of what Belphegor said that over time the earth has produced dramatically "worse" effects than polar caps melting. We are yes, past the end of the last ice age, and the earths temperatures are on the way up, but obviously in order to peak those temperatures it'll take millions and millions of years.

The question i guess that should be asked, is whether or not it seriously makes a difference whether we can speed up a tiny portion of those millions of millions of years now, or waiting it out? (if that makes sense)

Sooner or later it will happen, obviously not in our lifetimes or the lifetimes of descendents of us pretty damn far down the road.

moe_blunts 2007-03-12 12:31

Step back and look at the question from a strictly "specie" (is that the singular of species?) aspect.

Other species compete amongst themselves, but not to the magnitude humans do. Humans put other humans in cages, not to mention war or genocide.

tmfreak 2007-03-12 12:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by moe_blunts
Step back and look at the question from a strictly "specie" (is that the singular of species?) aspect.

Other species compete amongst themselves, but not to the magnitude humans do. Humans put other humans in cages, not to mention war or genocide.


You can go millions of different angles of a paper with something like this. That is comparing and contrasting the difference between humans and other species and how we "produce" our own demise.

When i think of this i immediately think about how we often over think things. We create simplicities and complexities that drastically distort sometimes obvious things. Maybe thats the bane of being a rational, reasoning being.

So maybe another way to look at the quote is saying that its our intellect and rationality that allows us to have our unique fruits in life and our unique undoings both at the same time. A seemingly true oxymoron.

CompelledToLacerate 2007-03-12 14:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by belphegor79
Actually, that was pretty well said. We can't be sure about anything. I mean, a super-volcano like the one under Yellowstone could go off, which would cause a world-wide famine. The earth can purge us in many ways.

Exactly. So instead of wasting time trying to prevent such disasters from happening, we should really be preparing for them. And if we die out, it's only because we weren't strong enough.

The weak must die out to make room for those more superior.

belphegor79 2007-03-12 19:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by problematic
Ok you're gay. You're just as fucking biased as your opposition. Does it matter what I fucking believe? If you make it a personal question you're being as ambiguous as you fucking want. Maybe if you asked a person who has studied the topic for years and years you could get an educated response. I highly doubt you are part of a research team or similar. No, internet articles don't cut it. Thanks for your opinion stated as fact with no evidence.

Alright, unless you're talking about your father which would make it a fact, is it really necessary to come in calling someone gay, just because you feel differently about something? I didn't state my opinion as fact, but obviously I happen to think my opinion has a good chance of being correct or else I wouldn't have an opinion. No we can't know any of this shit for sure, we can only make educated guesses.

Oh, yeah of course it matters what you believe. Your opinion is no less important than mine. Thanks for your time, jewbag.

belphegor79 2007-03-12 19:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by CompelledToLacerate
Exactly. So instead of wasting time trying to prevent such disasters from happening, we should really be preparing for them. And if we die out, it's only because we weren't strong enough.

The weak must die out to make room for those more superior.

It happened with the extinction of dinosaurs so yeah, it will probably happen to us at some point.


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