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7-string warlord 2006-12-13 22:45

noob-ish diminished question
I've always been a harmonic minor man, but i've been looking to work on using new ideas. I,m really getting into diminished, well one day i was trying to fuck around with it and i noticed it is a pentatonic scale. Is this right, it only has five notes, i could have swore reading somewhere it has more. Could someone help me clear this up? Sorry if this is stupid, i'm really mediocre with my theory.

This is how I'm playing it:

amerok 2006-12-14 05:21

yes, those are diminished arpeggios, if you play a note every 3 frets. since you have a sharped 7th in the harmonic minor you get that diminished shaped woven into it.

davie_gravy 2006-12-14 10:26

Notice he said it was an arpeggio. The diminished scale comes in a couple different flavors. The whole-half and the half-whole with both scales containing 8 tones.

JOAMdude 2006-12-18 00:33



7-string warlord 2006-12-20 19:49

HOLY CRAP! that whole half sounds so cool, when they said whole half i didn't know what the fuck they were talking about, thanks for the example. I would have asked but I already felt dumb for this question in the first place. Oh well, so what does the other one look like?

johnmansley 2006-12-21 04:02


But it's easier, to me anyway, to play it like this:


USS 2006-12-21 05:10

I love octotonic scales :)
I can be wrong, but I think the scales are used with the wrong names. whole-half I think means you first of all take a whole step and then half one step, so the one johnmansley posted will then be the whole-half and the other will be the half-whole. Tell me if I am wrong.

k13m 2006-12-21 06:34

nah that corecdt i think, on most scale site their show whole-half AND half-whole, doesnt matter cuz the patter is still the same.

JOAMdude 2006-12-21 23:00

yeah Ki3m is right about that.
And yeah 7STrWrlord. play whole-half the way johnmansley plays it. when you play it that way it kind of opens up the playability and you can SEE the scales uses better
yes diminished scales are very fun. i write all my riffs with phrygian dominant and half-whole and whole-half. out of curiosity? what scales do you guys use, or do you go chromatic?

7-string warlord 2006-12-22 23:11

I do the chromatic thing for a lot of my real thrashy riffs, and then harmonic minor for solos and leads. I'm really anxious to start using these octatonics that weve been discussing.

JOAMdude 2006-12-23 22:16

for easy and fast octotonic i found a three note, four string run, check it out


move that up and down by tritonal scale and your in key or move it intervals of H, W, W+H, and so forth (in the octotonic shape) for a jazzier sound

Unanything 2006-12-24 00:19

Wholetone's cool, although that's augmented territory. I often improvise in that, and it has cool doublestopping possibilities...

JOAMdude 2006-12-24 01:38

i don't really know what your saying. by whole tone do you mean, no semi-tones? what is a doublestop?

davie_gravy 2006-12-24 03:28

Originally Posted by JOAMdude
i don't really know what your saying. by whole tone do you mean, no semi-tones? what is a doublestop?

Whole tone refers to the scale intervals. There's no half step intervals only whole step (or tone) as the name implies. A double stop is the act of playing two notes simultaneously.

JOAMdude 2006-12-24 12:05

oh :p that sounded alot more complicated

JonR 2006-12-24 12:34

Jazz conventions:

Whole-half diminished = 1-2-b3-4-b5-#5-6-7. Use on dim7 chords.
E.g. Bdim7 = B-D-F-Ab. Scale = B-C#-D-E-F-G-Ab-A#

Half-whole diminished = 1-2b-b3-3-#4-5-6-b7. Use on 7b9 chords.
E.g. G7b9 = G-B-D-F-Ab. Scale = G-Ab-A#-B-C#-D-E-F.

Notice these 2 scales are the same. Bdim7 is the top 4 notes of G7b9, and is a common sub for G7, esp in key of C minor.

There are only THREE diminished scales; but each of them has EIGHT names: 4 whole-half and 4 half-whole, depending on which note you start from.
Likewise, there are only 3 dim7 chords, each with 4 possible names (not counting enharmonic equivalents), depending on which note you call the root.
B-D-F-Ab = Bdim7 = Ddim7 = Fdim7 = Abdim7 (=G#dim7)

Wholetone = 1-2-3-#4-#5-b7. Use on 7#5, 7b5, 9#5, 9b5 chords.
E.g. G7#5 = G-B-D#-F. Scale = G-A-B-C#-D#-F
(Example: Intro to "You are the sunshine of my life" Stevie Wonder)

There are only TWO wholetone scales. The other one is C-D-E-F#-G#-Bb.

JOAMdude 2006-12-24 12:35

:eek: when people write a lot, even if they are right it makes things confusing

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