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-   -   Need help with Death Metal song, calling all drummers. (http://metaltabs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34064)

Bloodsoaked666 2006-11-23 08:50

Need help with Death Metal song, calling all drummers.
 
This is a short 21 second begining to a song I am in the process of writing and I am looking for ideas as to what drums (if any) should go with the begining of this song. The kick and ride you hear in this sample were just a click track for myslef.

I am basicly looking for input/help for the drums for the fast part as I am totally stumped.


http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=5633


If anyone is willing to take the time to program some drums to give me a few ideas that would be great as well. I am going to use this as the into and 3/4 of the way thru the song as well.


Thank you,
Peter

baptized_in_blood 2006-11-24 00:11

dude, this song is so generic that writing drums to shouldn't be problem.

my advice, get on your kit and play what comes to you.

drawn&quartered 2006-12-20 14:51

blast beats will work for most of it.

The Execrator 2006-12-24 12:10

Add a snare hit between every bass drum kick you already have. Blast beats will sound nice with it.

PUngency 2006-12-24 16:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by baptized_in_blood
dude, this song is so generic that writing drums to shouldn't be problem.

my advice, get on your kit and play what comes to you.

WHAT! Thats badass dude.

It'll sound generic if you put blast beats over it. I'm a guitarist... SO PLEASE... no offense, but when death metal sounds "Generic" it's because the drummers lack creativity and just play blasts or double kick all the time. BUT thats just my observation or lack therof.

OH and vice versa!

low-tech 2006-12-25 00:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by PUngency
WHAT! Thats badass dude.

It'll sound generic if you put blast beats over it. I'm a guitarist... SO PLEASE... no offense, but when death metal sounds "Generic" it's because the drummers lack creativity and just play blasts or double kick all the time. BUT thats just my observation or lack therof.

OH and vice versa!



fuck that shit and no fucking vice versa

this reply is more about your comment than this actual mp3 track, which is a good example of my point anyway.

stiff, no dynamic drummers is a problem within metal ill give you that, but we are mere accompanyment, meaning that outside the context of guitars or any instruments from which the composition of a song is to be authored, drum parts are just repititions we drummers usually all share<maybe with the exception of a few who really make thier mark>

so, NO, it is indeed the guitarists who motherfucking circle the same ideas and approaches to thier writing<note again...drums are accompyments, we can only provide a rythmic foundation from which songs can be written> and due to lack of creativity...rythmically strum the same 16th notes pattern to no end then have the gall to expect some sort of variation to magically transform thier run-on sentence of a song into something actually compositionally rich with build-ups and breakdowns,half and double timing, dimuendo/crescendo etc.

this is something i have a major problem with, give me the same tired 240bpm 16th note, a half hour of music with little variations, broken up patterns and yeah sure, im just circle the same beats because i can only do so much with the same thing so many times. so when you say "can you not do a blast for this part" dont be suprised if the drummer quips back "can you not just strum straight 8th and 16ths like your life depended on it"

really, what are the fucking options? "ok ill do a 16th note double bass roll in the context of 32nd notes and add snare at 2 and 4 with ride cymbal quarter notes....great!, awesome! ok, next riff, well what do you know!. its the same 16th note pattern.......what can i do for this part??.....how about another blastbeat....or a half time quarter note gallop....fanfuckingtastic"

drummers only circle ideas because we are put in that position, there is only so much you can do at high tempos.....unless you really want to strum the pattern of a 240bm paradiddle with snare hits on the right hand....good fucking luck on that.

The Execrator 2006-12-25 12:19

That is a very interesting arguement...

PUngency 2006-12-25 14:14

Quote:
Originally Posted by low-tech
fuck that shit and no fucking vice versa

THats not vice versa?

low-tech 2006-12-25 16:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by PUngency
THats not vice versa?



drummers dont permutate cannibal corpse riffs and write songs for the most part, unless they are musically gifted mofos like the guy in vital remains.

most drummers make their mark, their playing becomes personalized with subtlety and usually drumfills and stuff usually at their request<perhaps setting a particular drumbeat for a change or two or doing extended drumfills for a particular part or even take a few bars for a drumsolo, all this done in a way that doesnt consume the listeners attention away from the songs entirely>to actually make them distinct from the vast amount of shared rythyms and beats that that are typical of the style, this go back even to swing.

even when playing swing, where the playing is very loose to interpretation/improvisation<theres more room to be yourself>, there is only so much a drummer can do if, lets say the band is only focusing on one particular tempo and approach.

a good example of my point is take ac/dc's song "hells bell" and seperate the drums from the song, its literally bass on 1 and 3 with snare on 2 and 4 and quarter notes on the hihat, its usually the first drumbeat, first pattern one learns when playing rock music. very little variation on this pattern thruout the song, but given the context of how the song is written you cant really fault the guy.....its a straightforward song....and a very good song at that.

his job is to provide foundation, yeah sure he could of done more.... but he's only utilizes as much as whats written for him. part of a drummers job is not to steal the listeners attention from the song, this is what happens with drummers like buddy rich and virgil donati and other drum shredders<this also goes for guitar shredders who hog the spotlight>......when the playing is too active the entire song itself becomes context for drum technique and bombast<or in a guitarist the song becomes context for solos>......soon you get what fusion music does well....empty, highly complex but completely forgettable music.

so a drummers job is tricky

1>playing enough not to sound like a drum machine, having a sound people can recognize as you behind those drums

2>not demanding the attention of listener above everything else and stealing the show

3>striking a balance between technique and solid playing that suits the song, not your self indulgent playing.

4>playing stuff that can keep the listeners attention, a variety of not only drumbeats/rythyms,tempos and such but also the notes and guitar playing has to vary as well: scales,composition<not playing fast 16ths every song> and general mood of the music

but all this this has to work in the context of the material provided for a drummer, if the writting focuses on a limited area theres really nothing one can do.

death metal and grind is the biggest offender of playing the same stuff over and over again, which can be fine for the diehards who expect nothing more, but the drummer is the last culprit for blame as to why the shit is generic.

sorry to lecture you about this, but just maybe these are reasons why you dont see as many metal drummers as proportional as guitarists. its already hard enough to play blastbeats to no end and there isnt much room to make your mark without avoid avoiding the technique obsessed, tech/math metal approach.

PUngency 2006-12-26 00:20

Quote:
Originally Posted by low-tech
sorry to lecture you about this, but just maybe these are reasons why you dont see as many metal drummers as proportional as guitarists. its already hard enough to play blastbeats to no end and there isnt much room to make your mark without avoid avoiding the technique obsessed, tech/math metal approach.

What are you talking about? I know a good drummer when I hear one. Same with guitarists.

Its just me I guess. I follow my drummer. I let him start first and I follow. When we write songs he has a big part in what direction the song goes. Its a team. The drummer plays the beat and that beat determines the melody and the rhythm in which I play it. Could be straight 16ths but the MEDLODY's rhythm wont be duh duh duh and boring. Cant explain it without you hearing it. heh.

ANYWAY, if he jams a straight forward beat like... like... something basic, I"LL play something basic.

OH and this is a good conversation for me. Get different perspectives.

low-tech 2006-12-26 07:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by PUngency
What are you talking about? I know a good drummer when I hear one. Same with guitarists.


a good drummer?........or a very skilled one who shows off?

theres a world of difference





Quote:
Its just me I guess. I follow my drummer. I let him start first and I follow. When we write songs he has a big part in what direction the song goes. Its a team. The drummer plays the beat and that beat determines the melody and the rhythm in which I play it. Could be straight 16ths but the MEDLODY's rhythm wont be duh duh duh and boring. Cant explain it without you hearing it. heh.

ANYWAY, if he jams a straight forward beat like... like... something basic, I"LL play something basic.

OH and this is a good conversation for me. Get different perspectives.



drumbeats arent as personalized as songwriting, your drummer may have input
on how you write, and may influence how you are gonna write...but in the end you are WRITING the song.

we can only provide the structure of the time and tempo in which you write a riff, the stress points and accent notes, how its subdivided.

thats not an equal share.

drawn&quartered 2006-12-26 21:36

weird... my guitarists dont really follow me, i have to learn to follow them and complement the instrumentals. not the other way around.

KthalEhthrek 2006-12-28 06:55

Well from the Jamming I've done with the Drummers around here I've noticed a few types of Drummers:

A) The Dude who waits to hear your riff once or twice, then jumps in. 50%

B) The Guy who will come up cool rythms and expect you to jump in. 33%

C) The Person who does both of the above, but will give you facial cues to indicate that he wants to change his drumming and is receptive of your signals as well. 27%

So most of the time, Riffing Style and Tempo and Rythm were often left for me. But every once in a while I found someone who was pretty creative on their own. Its a very rare thing to find a drumer that is willing to experiment on the fly.

Bah. I want to learn to drum man.


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