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-   -   Ultimate Kick Pedal-Just an interesting theory (http://metaltabs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33389)

TrappedInChaos 2006-10-26 17:31

Ultimate Kick Pedal-Just an interesting theory
 
Okay, I've been thinking about this for a really long time, and I've figured it out. I'm a fan of the single foot double pedal from Duallist, not because it's cool or easy to use, but because it's a really interesting idea. I thought about it for a while, and came up with something better: the 8-Kick Pedal. Or the OctoKick, either one.
Here's how it's supposed to work:
It combines the sigle-foot double with the heel-toe pedal. Basically, you have two bass drums on your set, and then on each one is a heel-toe pedal with single-foot double beaters connected to the heel and the toe. So when you push on the toe, one beater kicks, and when you pull up, the other kicks, then you switch to the heel. I actually drew a picture of this on Paint one day, but I don't know how to load it. There's one on each bass drum, so there's 8 beaters. I just thought you all might like to know my idea. It's probably too hard to learn, let alone build, but I just wanted feeback.

CompelledToLacerate 2006-10-26 18:27

Interesting idea, as long as every sucky double bass user doesn't start using it and end up cheapening the idea.

low-tech 2006-10-27 05:44

sounds like you ONLY could do 16 or 32nd notes with it.

not all drumming is bombast, ill just stick with a double kick..............

jimmers 2006-10-27 07:58

Yeah, and with four beaters per drum you're going to be hitting in 4 different places, which will sound shocking if you're not triggered. If all you want to do is mental-fast constant 16ths or 32nds, you might as well just double trigger and save yourself the 8 year engineering degree and the 4.8million squid to develop it.

Or you could just learn to play properly and forget all of it.

TrappedInChaos 2006-10-27 09:57

There would also be a timing issue, because on one foot you'd hit the toe at the same time as the heel on your other foot, and it would make one beat instead of two really fast ones. I don't seriously think this is ever going to be made, but I just thought you guys might like to know my ideas.
One time, I put two of those Gothic Radius cymbals together to make hi-hats, and these cymbals are like 26", so they made a really scary sound whenever I had them open completely. They were so heavy, I had to put a spring under my hat pedal to make them go up after I closed them. They're expensive, too, and you can bend them by hand to make different tones. But they're too heavy and really awkward to use, so I'll just stick with the 16" hats. Not 14", but 16". I go a little deeper than some drummers.

TrappedInChaos 2006-10-27 10:20

1 Attachment(s)
I think I uploaded the picture of the pedal. If not, I'll try something else.

low-tech 2006-10-27 12:32

i do something similiar to the hihhat idea. i used 20" rides, its cool and if you are doing 26". i wish i could get my hands on rides that big.

the dualist itself isnt really a bad idea, i dont object to it or think less of folks who use it.

its just theres more to drumming than billionth note bass rolls.....if anything metal drumming would do better

1>dropping the trigger altogether, i cannot stress how fucking retarded triggers are.

2>accents,flams, broken up patterns within the context of the double kick.......very few drummers actually understand that since the double can act like another set of hands that they can actually play them to the full potential of what sticks can do...rudiments included. triggers make this impossible

3>overall dynamic orientated playing utilizing a double...........NOT PLAYING LIKE A DRUM MACHINE, as an aesthetic approach this is way overdone and has become the cookie cutter formula of how to play in a metal band.

4>substance over the technique obsession going around where speed and chops are what difines good playing.


basically, in a nutshell, noone really utilizes the double kick to its full potential, most just trigger and tap, no dynamics, no accents,nothing....they let a little module even everything out thereby nullifying the fact there is a bassdrum present, an acoustic instrument.....that is SUPPOSE to produce the sound.

im still working on the double, when im 80 and feel like i got the hang of it ill check out your 8 beater octopus pedal.

jimmers 2006-10-27 17:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by low-tech
i do something similiar to the hihhat idea. i used 20" rides, its cool and if you are doing 26". i wish i could get my hands on rides that big.

the dualist itself isnt really a bad idea, i dont object to it or think less of folks who use it.

its just theres more to drumming than billionth note bass rolls.....if anything metal drumming would do better

1>dropping the trigger altogether, i cannot stress how fucking retarded triggers are.

2>accents,flams, broken up patterns within the context of the double kick.......very few drummers actually understand that since the double can act like another set of hands that they can actually play them to the full potential of what sticks can do...rudiments included. triggers make this impossible

3>overall dynamic orientated playing utilizing a double...........NOT PLAYING LIKE A DRUM MACHINE, as an aesthetic approach this is way overdone and has become the cookie cutter formula of how to play in a metal band.

4>substance over the technique obsession going around where speed and chops are what difines good playing.


basically, in a nutshell, noone really utilizes the double kick to its full potential, most just trigger and tap, no dynamics, no accents,nothing....they let a little module even everything out thereby nullifying the fact there is a bassdrum present, an acoustic instrument.....that is SUPPOSE to produce the sound.

im still working on the double, when im 80 and feel like i got the hang of it ill check out your 8 beater octopus pedal.



Yea, I agree with a lot of that - except I'd say you're talking more about death metal than metal drumming in general. I think there are plenty of metal drummers using more imaginative patterns and things (Thomas Haake, Bobby Jarzombek, even people like Chris Adler and Jason Bittner etc), but we tend only to really worship the ones with the constant fast 16th note rolls.

Too many metal people are and always will be obsessed by speed, sadly. No point me going over the same, tired old ground here - but the groove and dynamics you're talking about there are fading away.

Miscarriage 2006-11-06 17:43

You can find it somewhere on youtube..it has a weird name, there is one with 4 pedals (electric) and that was pretty funny..

But in terms of ideal pedals although i'm more of a traditionalist when it comes to pedals and would be even then..I saw one called a Bwork or something like that. It has no bounce back? Hard to explain. When the beater hits the head there is a default position where the pedal itself just stops. Where as a normal pedal you sort of use that motion to hit your next swing, as it flies back. It was really weird. Now that I think of it, Tim Waterson might have made it or was talking about it, endorsing it, whatever.

Boslaive_33 2006-11-15 11:40

kick ass idea
 
dude that shits phat only prob is that youde get different tones for each beater cause there all hittin different spots on the head :uzi:

BrokenCrimson 2006-11-17 20:58

That would be also awkward for 12/8 and weird time signatures as far as counting/aligning limbs goes.

jimmers 2006-11-18 06:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenCrimson
That would be also awkward for 12/8 and weird time signatures as far as counting/aligning limbs goes.


You mean.. *gulps* .. using double bass that isn't constant 16ths in 4/4?!?!?

No such thing.


BURN THE WITCH!

skank nasty 2007-01-27 13:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrappedInChaos
I think I uploaded the picture of the pedal. If not, I'll try something else.



ive read into an idea similar to this a couple of years ago, i can see why people would think it would work but you1d have to master a pretty unique technique to stop beaters hitting at the same time. think of 2 duallists one on each bass drum, if you play double bass as standard when your right foot is up the second beater is going to hit at the same time as your left foot when it is down and vice versa.

i beleive that using a standard double pedal or 2 bass drums is the way forward, ive only been playing five years and i can do double bass 16ths at 200bpm. its all about practice, im learning the heal toe technique to save on energy when playing constant. everyone says it and at first it seems like shit but you can instantly master anything, you could take a standard db pedal to 230bpm maybe more but it would be brutally hard. using fancy pedals like the duallist isnt cheating but you arent learning how everyone else does.

my main question from your idea is how would you turn off the beaters? the duallist has the heel button thing to switch between 1 or 2 beaters. having 4 would make that even more complicated.


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