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-   -   Middle Eastern Scales (http://metaltabs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32243)

JonR 2006-11-20 07:20

Quote:
Originally Posted by imelijah
I dont remember the name, but 1 b2 b3 b5 5 b6 7= A Bb C Eb E F G#

This is an Indian raga scale known as "Todi That", "Mela Shubhapantuvarali", and/or "Raga Multani". Also "Gamakasamantam" and "Chromatic Lydian inverse". (Hey the names are almost better than the scale... :D )
Quote:
Originally Posted by imelijah
I know that theoretically they have to be either naturals and flats or naturals and sharps
The rule is not sharps or flats only, but one of each note only.
So it should be A Bb C D# E F G#, as USS said.

It so happens that if you follow the "one of each note" rule with major scales, you end up with sharps only or flats only - hence the latter rule. But it doesn't apply to all scales. (Eg G harmonic minor and D harmonic minor require a mix of sharps and flats.)

USS 2006-11-30 04:35

It gets quite strange when we call our band names to the scales we MOTT use and then have a very brutal name and music that sucks in the end. Chromatic Lydian Inverse... sounds pretty well. Perfect for a band name or a CD title or sth like that.

I feel a new Hypocrisy song coming up with such name:P

USS 2007-02-19 10:10

I am looking for the scale Dimmu Borgir uses in the third riff in the song 'Absolute Sole Right':

E F G Ab B C D#
Anyone having a name for it?

JOAMdude 2007-02-19 13:18

double harmonic.
the one in pulp fiction right?

Unanything 2007-02-19 19:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by USS
It gets quite strange when we call our band names to the scales we MOTT use and then have a very brutal name and music that sucks in the end. Chromatic Lydian Inverse... sounds pretty well. Perfect for a band name or a CD title or sth like that.


Well there is a doom band called Aeolian, no wait, I that might have been the name of the album, can't remember... :confused:

USS 2007-02-21 07:13

I do not know any pulp fiction, but the riff I was talking about is played this way:

Code:
|-E-E-E-e-e-e--e-e-e-D#-D#-D#-|-E-E-E-e-e-e--D#-D#-D#-C-C-C-|-B-B-B-F-F-F--F-F-F-Ab-Ab-Ab-|-F-F-F-B-B-B--C-C-C-Ab-G-Ab-|

JonR 2007-02-21 07:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by USS
I am looking for the scale Dimmu Borgir uses in the third riff in the song 'Absolute Sole Right':

E F G Ab B C D#
Anyone having a name for it?
Interesting...
Firstly, this is not the double harmonic scale (as used in Dick Dale's "Misirlou" in Pulp Fiction - see below).
Secondly, I can't find this scale (with E as root) in my huge database of scales.
But it is a mode of a couple of other scales.
If C was the root, it would be the Mela Gangeyabhusani or Raga Gangatarangini (both Indian) or the Sengah scale from Greece:
C D# E F G Ab B = 1-#2-3-4-5-b6-7

2 1 3 1 3 1 1
If F was the root, it would be Mela Nitimati, Raga Nisada or Raga Kaikavasi (all Indian).
F G Ab B C D# E = 1-2-b3-#4-5-#6-7

The double harmonic, btw, based on E (as played in Misirlou), is this:
E F G# A B C D#

USS 2007-02-21 09:25

Dimmu Borgir plays it with the E definitely as root (you should listen to the song to get what I mean), so no name for this scale yet? Then let us make up a name for it. (If Sven Atle Kopperud is watching this forum: have you got any name for it?)

Edit: For example: Chromatic Diminished Harmonic, to the diminished forth E/A-flat.

I mean, JonR is the scale authority here, and I want to become thesame.

JOAMdude 2007-02-21 10:05

aside from that G thrown in there. yes that is double harmonic

USS 2007-02-21 10:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unanything
Well there is a doom band called Aeolian, no wait, I that might have been the name of the album, can't remember... :confused:

Aeolian is the key most used in metal music, also named Minor scale, or (in Medieval church masses as second part of the eight-parted mass) hypodorian. The first key used there is D dorian, starting and ending on D:
D E F G A B C d
The second part of the first 'chapter' is D hypodorian:
D E F G A Bb C d
The third scale is phrygian:
E F G A B C D e
The forth is hypophrigian:
E F G A Bb C D e
The fifth scale is lydian, with indeed a hypolylian:
F G A B C D E f
and F G A Bb C D E f
The seventh scale is Myxolydian, followed by Hypomyxolydian (whow: three y's in one word!):
G A B C D E F g
and G A Bb C D E F g.

These were the first church scales.
After lots of discussion, in the 16th century the Aeolian and Ionian scale were added, with their hypo-parallels:
A B C D E F G a
A Bb C D E F G a
and the ionian scales
C D E F G A B c
C D E F G A Bb c

Ever since then, the Aeolian and the Ionian have nearly wiped out the others (survival of the fittest). They are our current Major scale (Ionian) and Minor scale (Aeolian).

Just to keep you up to date with ancient scales ;)

There are lots of minor scales with sharps and flats added (which can no longer be called Aeolian), like Harmonic minor:
A B C D E F G# a
or melodic minor:
A B C D E F# G# a (ascending) and A B C D E F G a (descending), or Hungarian minor:
A B C D# E F G# a
or Chromatic Lydian Inverse (which can also be called Hungarian Phrygian):
A Bb C D# E F G# a
and more of these scales.

I think if a band constantly writes in Aeolian, the music will be VERY boring in the end.

JonR 2007-02-21 11:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOAMdude
aside from that G thrown in there. yes that is double harmonic
Aside from the A too.
So it's double harmonic, er, except for 2 different notes... :rolleyes: ;)

USS 2007-02-22 03:44

Which makes it a total different scale.

JonR 2007-02-22 08:08

Exactly... ;)

USS 2007-02-26 05:44

Therefore Aeolian is a total different scale than locrian (two added flats or deleted sharps) or myxolydian (with two added sharps or deleted flats).

JonR 2007-02-26 07:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by USS
Therefore Aeolian is a total different scale than locrian (two added flats or deleted sharps) or myxolydian (with two added sharps or deleted flats).
Yup.

Actually, every scale is really identical to every other. It's just that some of them have different notes...
;)

Unanything 2007-02-27 15:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by USS
Ever since then, the Aeolian and the Ionian have nearly wiped out the others (survival of the fittest). They are our current Major scale (Ionian) and Minor scale (Aeolian).

Just to keep you up to date with ancient scales ;)


So are you saying that Aeolian and Ionian are the best? I would have to disagree... Each mode has it's own use. It was a mistake when the Baroque fags did away with the modes. I appreciate that the minor and major scales are the core for the major and minor sounds and I adhere to teh key system, but that's it.

JOAMdude 2007-02-27 21:25

modes suck

Unanything 2007-03-01 12:02

How the fuck do they?

JonR 2007-03-01 12:58

Man, I love coming to this site. Such a high standard of debate...
:D

USS 2007-03-12 07:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unanything
So are you saying that Aeolian and Ionian are the best? I would have to disagree... Each mode has it's own use. It was a mistake when the Baroque fags did away with the modes. I appreciate that the minor and major scales are the core for the major and minor sounds and I adhere to teh key system, but that's it.

I am definitely not insinuating this at all. How come you think this while I am just updating your knowledge of the history of scales?
There is no opinion in facts.

I am saying that most people prefer the sound of Aeolian and Ionian, and these scales were therefore used more over the past four centuries. They are also used in present music most.
I most of the time write in Dorian (the first melody I ever wrote was in G Dorian, and it is added to the first song my band is making, which is in G Dorian almost the whole time, except for only one or two Eb notes) or in (double) harmonic minor (writing a piece for string quarter and Pianoforte/Harpsichord at the moment) and in hexatonic scale (whole-step). I will notify you when it is finished.


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