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-   -   metal soloing help, please. (http://metaltabs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31935)

visa 2006-08-17 19:12

metal soloing help, please.
 
Okay, so basically I know a good bit of music theory, I know quite a few scales, I know how to find the key of a song, and all that, but I am unable to write solos that sound metal, they all sound like experimental nu jazz, and thats not what I play, so lets take this for example
http://youtube.com/watch?v=g6VyMi2xr-A
This is an easy metal/rock solo, pretty much all pentatonic scale, its sounds good its short, I should be able to write solos like this and I am unable, I need some help.
I mean other than speed what are some things that will help me play more like this, I need help someone help me please.

Amadeus 2006-08-18 03:02

First of all, how long have you been trying to write songs and solos? I've been at it for more than half a year and have only just started to make some decent stuff. Practice, stubborness and experimentation is the thing.
Of course, adding pedals (theory, m'kay), sweeps and arpeggios is always a good place to start. Remember, metal is metal in many parts due to its technicality, scales alone won't cut it.
Personally I find that including at least three strings and making jumps of three notes at a time is a nice foundation.

Orion 2006-08-18 07:40

It all depends on what style, you can have a dissonant atonal style and a melodic style

you should start learning the melodic style so if you want to move onto a chaotic style you have the grounding on the rules so you can break em.

For the melodic style use pentatonics and mix them in with modes (ie Michael Amott in Arch Enemy use Pentatonic Minor and mixes in Aeolian or Dorian mode).

Rattlehead 2006-08-18 08:23

It's quite simple really:

1. Use heroin/cocaine/speed all at once.
2. Listen to Megadeth (any of first four albums)
3. Play like Megadeth.

If number 3 doesn't work, repeat steps 1 and 2 and try it again. You'll get the hang of it. :beer:

Unanything 2006-08-18 08:59

Learn some chords now.

The four common chords:
Major.
Minor.
Diminished.
Augmented.

This may sound weird, but I look on the the four basic chords like 'elemental gods'. Then the amiguous chord(s) and the dominant chord are just minor gods and the others (11, 13, maj7 and so on) are just high beings.

And then you should come to realise that the scales are chords with some extra notes thrown in. Then learn where all the chords are in a scale.

Like the Hindu scale, or melodic minor mode 5, for example. Has a minor chord, a dominant chord, an augmented chord and a major chord. It's major third is the root note of diminished chord. I suppose the scale also has both the amibiguous chords too.

You should learn them all by formula and shape on the fertboard. But getting a grip for melody is more of an organic thing. It's takes a bit of practice, particularly when keeping in scale.

Megadeth 2006-08-18 23:37

LOL rattlehead im qouting that shit

Amadeus 2006-08-19 02:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unanything
Learn some chords now.

The four common chords:
Major.
Minor.
Diminished.
Augmented.



What, every single one of them? I have a book of chords, 16 chords to a page, and there are about one hundred pages in that book.
But sure, if you don't already know a bunch of different types of chords its a good place to start; it has made the study of scales, modes and theory in general noticeably easier since I've got some kind of pre-constructed reference set for it.

k13m 2006-08-19 17:49

tab solos that you like or that are in the astyle you want to write solos, verry important IMO... TAB THEM YOURSELF!!, that way you can analise what the writer did, scale wise, pattern wise, tricks he uses to get certain sounds effects etc.

Mortal_Lament 2006-08-19 20:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
What, every single one of them? I have a book of chords, 16 chords to a page, and there are about one hundred pages in that book.

Well, if you look at alot of those chords, you will see that not only alot of them you can move up and down the neck for each note, but that alot of the chords are expanded into bar chords.
Take for instance G major
e-3 e-3
B-0 B-3
G-0 C-4
D-0 D-5
A-2 A-5
E-3 E-3
While both of them are sound the same, the second one posseses the ability to move up and down the neck.
Augmented and Diminished chords have patterns as well, but, i dont use them.

Amadeus 2006-08-20 07:28

Oh, you don't say?

Mortal_Lament 2006-08-20 19:06

I had enough of your attitude

amerok 2006-08-20 20:35

there are a few things you can do that may help.

follow the chord progression. if it switches between E5 and G5 every measure or two, try targeting the chord notes. so for E5 try to stay around the E, G or B. then when it switches to the G5 chord, try to target the G, B and D. for each chord pick 1 note that you want to get to. this gives you some direction so yours not playing random notes.

Listen to your ear. take the rhythm guitar and listen to it a few times. naturally youll start to hear some cool things in your head. once that happens, figure out how to play whats in your mind (even if it takes you a while). ultimately one should hear everything before he play it - your ear is good at improv, your fingers arent.

learn sequences/patterns. try odd sequences, say a 5 note ascending sequence for one measure or something, then a 7note descending sequence the next measure. using simple odd sequences will sound pretty cool even if they arent spectacular. message me if you have any questions

problematic 2006-08-21 01:31

You should think about structure (if any) first:

You might want a nice melodic slower intro, then some tapping, then some fast runs and then a dive out. A pretty reliable combo, but if you listen to others' solos, youll see structure is an important factor of solos.

Simplicity is good at first. It really depends on the mood you're trying to set, and your personaly ability.

Structuring with the scales helps. For example, you know minor scales sound eerie, so use them for sweeps, and possibly melodic sections of the solo, if thats the mood you're setting. Then some modes will help for tapping and runs.

Think about structure!, and the backing guitar.

Rattlehead 2006-08-21 11:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by amerok
Listen to your ear. take the rhythm guitar and listen to it a few times. naturally youll start to hear some cool things in your head. once that happens, figure out how to play whats in your mind (even if it takes you a while). ultimately one should hear everything before he play it - your ear is good at improv, your fingers arent.

That's probably the best advice you can give to a person, actually.

Oh, and cheers Megadeth, it's nice to see another 'Deth fan around here.

visa 2006-08-21 23:05

Thanks for the advice, it helps, and in this videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBYlzVN7twM can you tell me what dave is playing at the end, those two fast licks he does, can you tell me the frets that he hits, and do you guys know of any other licks like that. thanks.

amerok 2006-08-21 23:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by visa
Thanks for the advice, it helps, and in this videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBYlzVN7twM can you tell me what dave is playing at the end, those two fast licks he does, can you tell me the frets that he hits, and do you guys know of any other licks like that. thanks.


not sure about his tuning or whatever but it would be like 12-15-17 on the top 2 strings. then just find patterns with those notes

Unanything 2006-08-22 12:49

You could also learn the tetrachords.

They are little known, and handy as hell, mainly used by jazz sages. There are four, but there are a possible six.

Major.
Minor.
Phrygian.
Gypsy.

They are basically a set of four notes: a root note, its fourth and any other two notes in between.
I think if you look further into theory, you can find other forms of tetrachords, but I haven't looked that far.

All the above each have a second and a third note, the other two, for which I couldn't find names, would be like the Persian and Blues or something.

I've learnt them to the point I've forgotten about them. It's better to look for them in scales if you want to use them, but if you know them by sound, they are handy for creating melodies.

Code:
Minor 1 2 b3 4 Major 1 2 3 4 Phrygian 1 b2 b3 5 Gypsy 1 b2 3 4 Blues? 1 b2 bb3 4 Persian? 1 #2 3 4

powersofterror 2006-08-24 14:51

Play 3 notes to a string, any three notes, then play them very very fast randomly. That's Slayer. Solo's don't have to make sense either.....see a little Nile and Morbid Angel for example.

visa 2006-08-24 22:20

Quote:
Originally Posted by powersofterror
Play 3 notes to a string, any three notes, then play them very very fast randomly. That's Slayer. Solo's don't have to make sense either.....see a little Nile and Morbid Angel for example.



I know, but I want mine to have something too them, I would be cheating myself If I just played three notes as fast as I can I can do better then that.

tmfreak 2006-08-26 17:01

I dunno if its been posted cause i haven't read this whole thing. But what i really recommend is obviously learning solos to bands that you would like to somewhat sound like. And you'll realize that solos are completely composed in parts. What you can do is use those certain... .techniques and patterns composed in your own music or improv.

Its kind of hard to explain what i mean, but the part writting truly is the key. Basically something like... play long individual notes over the first section of the rhythm riff. Then on the 2nd repeat of the rhythm riff you could go into some sort of cool taps and end it with some sort of fast run through a scale. The 3rd repeat you could then do some sort of like 3 note speed picking (iron maiden does this alot). Then end the last riff with some sick taps and a huge bend at the end.

What really helps is breaking down and analyzing solos. And when you do that you'll understand what i mean by the composition of them. Eventually it will kind of almost be like legos. You'll put the pieces together in the other that you think would be perfect for the music.


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