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-   -   solo over chords help (http://metaltabs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31311)

aFarewelltoKings 2006-07-19 21:16

solo over chords help
 
okay guys im a bassist and our band needs help with a lead line to play over these chords

A---2----5----7----3
E---0----3----5----1

Explain to how to do it or please come up with a line for us!!! Please no smartass answers

jazzmetalguitar 2006-07-19 21:35

just figure out what key it is in. depending on the length of each note. alternate using the respective pentatonics and arpeggios. its a simple line so i wouldn't expect it to have a real progressive lead at all.

amerok 2006-07-20 01:34

C, or even F major will be fine for that. If your guitarist knowns the minor pentatonic shape tell him to do that on the 5th fret. if he chose F major try playing the E chord with a flat 5. (0 on E string and 1 on A string)

if youre not into theory you can always go note by note up the guitar and see which ones you like over those chords

davie_gravy 2006-07-20 09:23

E Phrygian (and E Harmonic Minor variation) would sound good over it.

Unanything 2006-07-20 13:18

Yeah, just use a key with those notes (the root notes anyway).
E Phrygian would work well. E Locrian too. OR, if you want to get exotic, Locrian #6 (harmonic minor, mode 2), or Locrian dim7 (b7).
If it's a jazz sound, try something like Dorian b2 (melodic minor, mode 2). Super Locrian also works, but there would probably have the guitar(s) doing third chords instead of powerchords.

Only Ash Remains by Necrophagist should give you some or ideas.

k13m 2006-07-20 13:42

the easy thing with powerchords is, u can use whatever scale on them. minor, major it doesnt matter.

the notes you play: (i just show the root notes) are

1 3 5 0

they all fit in harmonic minor in D
and they all fit pure minor in D

see picture, ull see that the 0 1 3 5 are all in the scale.
harmonic minor in D http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/gu...+Minor&get2=Get

pure minor in D http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/gu...+Minor&get2=Get

so you can use those full scale to solo over the whole backing riff.


another way is.
to use every root note for a different key.

1 F the numbers are the root notes of the riff your using, the letters are the keys.
3 G
5 A
0 E
3
meaning, u could use, any scale in F to play over the 1 powerchord,

5
any scale in G to play over the 3 powerchord

7
any scale in A to play over the 5 powerchord

2
any scale in E to play over the 0 powerchord

when u do this, its realy important to use the right keys over the matching powerchords, else the whole thing will be fucked up.

this method wil also be hard when the powerchords are played fast.

hope this helps u someway or another, i know my explanation is kinda weird, im not good at explaining sry :p :beer:

Sæltæb 2006-07-21 03:57

Haha Kiem, you helped me a little with what you told, so í'm gonna learn a bit scales right now!

k13m 2006-07-21 10:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sæltæb
Haha Kiem, you helped me a little with what you told, so í'm gonna learn a bit scales right now!
hehe come over for some private lessons sumtimes.. i told u it wasnt that hard to understand :smash:

aFarewelltoKings 2006-07-21 22:39

OK guys thanks for all the help i will get htis info to my guitarists.Also if i ever meet any of you that helped me i will buy you a Fanta or a Yoo Hoo. :beer:

Rattlehead 2006-08-15 08:39

Have they tried just playing what comes to mind. I use theory to spice it up here or there but usually for my final choice I stick with what I think of plus some notes I might have played accidentally that sound good.
I think when I write according to theory if I also forget to write according to feel it ends up sounding like I wrote according to theory (ie all the notes sound fine and the notes that are not in the present scale stand out nicely, but the whole part does really seem to "mean" or "say" anything).
I don't know...

Sic_Fitzravia 2006-09-06 20:30

Ive checked that the whole 0,1,3,5 are also fit in A Aeolian.So does that mean i can solo that scale over the entire track? if its correct, then i owe a lot to you guys especially k13m. :beer:

tmfreak 2006-09-06 22:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sic_Fitzravia
Ive checked that the whole 0,1,3,5 are also fit in A Aeolian.So does that mean i can solo that scale over the entire track? if its correct, then i owe a lot to you guys especially k13m. :beer:



A aeolian is the same thing as C major. Which was mentioned earlier in the thread. And yes its C major.

Niro5150 2007-01-28 11:45

If a riff went : 6" 7" 9" 6" on the low e string
I would look for scales in which these notes are found??

amerok 2007-01-28 15:19

exactly. there are many scales that contain those 4 notes though so youll have to figure out which one. Im going to assume that its phrygian just because most riffs with a 1, minor 2 and minor 3 are phrygian.

Niro5150 2007-01-28 19:33

alright thanks a lot man

JonR 2007-01-29 06:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niro5150
If a riff went : 6" 7" 9" 6" on the low e string
I would look for scales in which these notes are found??
Those notes are A# B and C#.
They occur in the following scales:
B and F# major;
B harmonic and melodic minor;
G# harmonic and melodic minor;
A# half-whole diminished.

All those scales have 7 modes (except the diminished, which only has 2 modes).

You would choose which scale is best by trial and error - seeing which one has other notes that sound like what you want.

As for the mode, that will depend on what the root note (keynote or tonic) of your scale is.
If it's A# (if that's the note you end on as well as start on, or if that's the root of the chord you play the riff over) then - as amerok says - it's probably phrygian (A# phrygian) - although it could just be locrian (less likely).

You could get more interesting modal sounds on an A# root by using the notes of those harmonic or melodic minor scales:

B harmonic minor with A# root = A# ultralocrian (locrian b4 bb7) A# B C# D F# G A#
B melodic minor with A# root = A# superlocrian (locrian b4, aka jazz "altered" scale) A# B C# D E F# G# A#
G# harmonic minor with A# root = A# locrian natural 6: A# B C# D# E Fx (double sharp) G# A#
G# melodic minor with A# root = A# phrygian natural 6: A# B C# D# E# Fx G# A# (maybe easier to think of as Bb phrygian nat 6: Bb Cb Db Eb F G Ab Bb)

Remember the sound of the root note is what's important in these modes. A# has to sound like the "home" note, which can be tricky.
E.g., if you play A# locrian, that's likely to just sound like the B major scale - because B is the natural and familiar keynote of that set of notes.


In fact all these scales would be far simpler to spell and think about if you just raised or lowered your 3 notes by one fret! :rolleyes:
If the above is making your head explode, try using frets 7, 8, 10, 7, which is B, C, D, B.
Now (assuming B is your root) your scale options are:

B phrygian (G major scale) = B C D E F# G A B
B locrian (C major scale) = B C D E F G A B
B ultralocrian (C harmonic minor) = B C D Eb F G Ab B
B superlocrian (C melodic minor) = B C D Eb F G A B
B locrian natural 6 (A harmonic minor) = B C D E F G# A B
B phrygian natural 6 (A melodic minor) = B C D E F# G# A B
B half-whole diminished = B C D Eb F F# G# A B (8 note scale. Not a lot of use for composing stuff, but could be fun to try out)

YJM04 2007-01-29 07:59

F major, E phyrigan, G mixolydian, A minor, those are your options to choose from, i personally would choose E gypsy(harmonic min phyrigan/or A hirojoshi would work too).

YJM04 2007-01-29 08:00

F major, i ment C major. oppsy

Niro5150 2007-01-29 08:48

Would it sound out of place if the riffs of a song didn't follow the similiar scale or would it be ok if only the backing rhythm did?

EDIT: Holy Shit! you guys know alot about theory, I need to start learning some of this

the_bleeding 2007-01-29 14:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niro5150
Would it sound out of place if the riffs of a song didn't follow the similiar scale or would it be ok if only the backing rhythm did?


Songs can change scales, sometimes it sounds good, sometimes it sounds off. If a backing rhythm was on a different scale than another rhythm played at the same time, theres a possibility of hitting dissonant notes... and if you arent into noisecore, thats usually a bad thing.


When it comes to leads over chords, I find what works best is the scale of the root of the chord. Eg. play E scale over an e chord, and g scale over g chord and so on. It works, and requires almost no thought when you're soloing, because none of the notes will sound 'off'.


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