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-   -   Thread On Modes (http://metaltabs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21946)

davie_gravy 2005-06-17 22:31

Thread On Modes
 
Basic C Major Scale Form

|--7--|--1--|-----|--2--| -1st string
|-----|--5--|-----|--6--|
|--2--|-----|--3--|--4--|
|--6--|-----|--7--|--1--|
|--3--|--4--|-----|--5--|
|-----|--1--|-----|--2--| -6th string
|
8th fret


C D E F G A B C - C major (Ionian Mode)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6
--------A B C D E F G A - A minor (Aeolian Mode)

Basic A Minor Scale Form

|-----|--1--|-----|--2--|-b3--| -1st string
|-----|--5--|-b6--|-----|-b7--|
|--2--|-b3--|-----|--4--|-----|
|-----|-b7--|-----|--1--|-----|
|-----|--4--|-----|--5--|-b6--|
|-----|--1--|-----|--2--|-b3--| -6th string
|
5th fret

Relative Modes Of C Major

C D E F G A B C - C Ionian Mode (Major)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1

D E F G A B C D - D Dorian Mode
2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2

E F G A B C D E - E Phrygian Mode
3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3

F G A B C D E F - F Lydian Mode
4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4

G A B C D E F G - G Mixolydian Mode
5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5

A B C D E F G A - A Aeolian Mode (Minor)
6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6

B C D E F G A B - B Locrian Mode
7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7



Parallel Modes with a root of C

C D E F G A B C - C Ionian Mode
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1

C D Eb F G A Bb C - C Dorian Mode
1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 1

C Db Eb F G Ab Bb C - C Phrygian Mode
1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 1

C D E F# G A B C - C Lydian Mode
1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 1

C D E F G A Bb C - C Mixolydian Mode
1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 1

C D Eb F G Ab Bb C - C Aeolian Mode
1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 1

C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C - C Locrian Mode
1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7 1

Mode - Chord Associated
----- ----------------
Ionian - Major

Dorian - Minor

Phrygian - Minor

Lydian - Major

Mixolydian - Major

Aeolian - Minor

Locrian - Diminished

Modes Explained:

This example is using C as the root or the (I). This (I) defines the Ionian mode, or the first mode of the major scale. Each major scale as a relative minor scale, for C, the relative minor is A. The distance from a major to it's relative minor is 3 frets, or 1 and half tones. Minor -3frets- Major
I've shown the finger patterns for the C major and A minor scale above.

Next shows all relative modes of C major. Each mode starts off the next interval in the C major scale. Each has it's own characteristic (major, minor, diminished) and it's own sound in relation to C major.

Modes can also be used in parallel, as shown next, where C is taken as the root for every mode.

Next shows that each mode has a particular chord associated with it. This pattern stays constant, the only thing that changes is where you start from.

Not a great explanation of modes, but a good starter for others to elaborate on. Plz post any corrections... Thanks

\m/Eat At Joe's\m/ 2005-06-18 02:35

To simplify, modes are if you played all the white keys on a piano, starting & ending on diff. notes than C (except Ionian mode.)
For example, Dorian is white notes from D to D. and so on with all the other modes. They sound quite proffessional-that's because the pros use them.

BEHEMOTH 2005-06-18 03:43

HI!
How are the modes of the harmonic minor second grade started scales. I mean. Harmonic minor: E F# G A B C D#- E Harmonic minor And how its called F G A B C D# E?

Thanks

davie_gravy 2005-06-18 04:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEHEMOTH
HI!
How are the modes of the harmonic minor second grade started scales. I mean. Harmonic minor: E F# G A B C D#- E Harmonic minor And how its called F G A B C D# E?

Thanks


Key of C:

C Harmonic Minor : C-D-Eb-F-G-Ab-B-C
D Locrian #6: D-Eb-F-G-Ab-B-C-D
Eb Harmonic Major: Eb-F-G-Ab-B-C-D-Eb
F Spanish Phrygian: F-G-Ab-B-C-D-Eb-F
G Double Harmonic Major: G-Ab-B-C-D-Eb-F-G
Ab Lydian b3: Ab-B-C-D-Eb-F-G-Ab
B Diminished : B-C-D-Eb-F-G-Ab-B

Here's the box shapes for the harmonic minor modes.

Disincarnate 2005-09-27 12:51

i kinda got what they are but how do i use them while playing?

amerok 2005-09-27 14:30

you can concentrate on playing the note which is being the root, that way that mode will stand out in your playing. Same thing goes with the 3rd and 5th of the key, since that makes up the chord that your emphasizing.

Shreddist 2005-10-28 16:49

Heres another way to play the modes, its 3 notes per string, i find these better for shredding. This picture was originally posted by Darko Modes. But thats how i know all of the modes, and i think it makes more sence to me with the 3 notes per string.

-Drake

davie_gravy 2005-10-28 19:18

That's an excellent way to visualize modes. That's how I do it, but don't limit the knowledge of modes to just 3-note groupings per string. I've expanded on that with 4-note groupings per string, also focusing on playing modes horizontally. It's helped me open up new ways to visualize the fretboard, plus a load of new sounds out of the same scales.

Shreddist 2005-10-29 10:55

I never thought of horizontally, im going to have to give that a shot, that sounds really cool. What are some ways you used that to help you?

amerok 2005-11-05 22:26

yeah, thats how i learned them, but the bad thing about learning it that way is theres no change of key signatures so its much harder to hear the modes if youre running down the scales or something. Just something to keep in mind.

davie_gravy 2005-11-06 02:52

Something I do is apply the 3-note groupings on one string, run through all the modes for that string, then repeat for each string. Then, I'll grab 3-note groupings using 2 strings, pairing up adjacent strings and string skipping. Plenty of combinations, plus it helps build strength in your pick hand as well, you can legato the patterns, strict alternate, whatever.

lizardly 2005-11-21 19:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by davie_gravy
That's an excellent way to visualize modes. That's how I do it, but don't limit the knowledge of modes to just 3-note groupings per string. I've expanded on that with 4-note groupings per string, also focusing on playing modes horizontally. It's helped me open up new ways to visualize the fretboard, plus a load of new sounds out of the same scales.


This kinda sounds like the bead method.

Manx

davie_gravy 2005-11-21 22:31

Not familiar with the bead method. Please elaborate.

lizardly 2005-11-22 11:15

Well with the bead method you follow the Circle of Fifths counterclockwise. If you start on the sixth string you can use this information to name the notes accross the frets. If you know the mode starting on that string at that fret you can rip them horizontally. I hope that makes sense.

Manx

Disincarnate 2005-11-22 11:37

ive still not understood the circle of fifths

lizardly 2005-11-22 12:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disincarnate
ive still not understood the circle of fifths


Disincarnate,

It's a very fundamental device in playing music. It's created by taking the fifth note of each scale and placing them clockwise on a circle. So, starting with "C" on the top we find the fifth note in the "C" scale. I-C, II-D, III-E, IV-F, V-G, VI-A, VII-B. So we see that "G" is the fifth interval from "C" so we place it on the circle. Next we find the fifth note in the key of "G". I-G, II-A, III-B, IV-C, V-D, VI-E, VII-F#. So we see that "D" is a fifth interval from "G" and we place it on the circle. If we continue to do this the complete circle will follow...

C - G - D - A - E - B - C#/Bb - F#/Gb - Db - Ab - Eb - Bb - F - C

This is in fifths but if we turn it around and reverse the direction of the circle we are looking at fourths...

C - F - Bb - Eb - Ab - Db - Gb/F# - Bb/C# - B - E - A - D - G - C

The guitar is tuned in fourths so this is an excellent way to instantly identify the notes on the guitar. Notice the spelling of BEAD and hence the name BEAD Method

It's also a great way to know what chords play together. They are grouped in threes. If you play the minor of each chord you will have a full complement of chords.

Hope that helps,

Manx

lizardly 2005-11-22 13:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disincarnate
i kinda got what they are but how do i use them while playing?


Disincarnate,

The most common misconception of modes is that they are scales. No, not just scales. Modes only find their context within music. The scales only sound modal when played against certain chord progressions. If you wish to play in Dorian mode your music will center around the second interval of a scale. For example, if you wish to play Dorian C, then your music will center around the Dm chord. You will be playing in the key of C. As long as you play your solos in the key of C your song will have a Dorian sound. Playing the Dorian C modal scale only helps to make an emphasis of the "D" note so to reinforce the Dorian sound. The best way to understand modes is to mess with them.

Manx

vivaldi 2005-11-23 16:33

ok i did not understand this : - your playing Bm. Its G major thirds. so just play G maj over Bm. your playing B phrygian. simple Math.
ok so far I figured out that G major third is Bm. anda how come this becomes B phrygian? what happens if i played C maj or Fm scale over B minor?
is there a way/formula to remember this method?
and dude, simple math ........whats math gota do with this ?
I need help from you PRO guitarist pls.
(i ve understood circle of fifths,construction of chords, scales, arps and formation of modes lit bit )

lizardly 2005-11-23 18:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivaldi
ok i did not understand this : - your playing Bm. Its G major thirds. so just play G maj over Bm. your playing B phrygian. simple Math.
ok so far I figured out that G major third is Bm. anda how come this becomes B phrygian? what happens if i played C maj or Fm scale over B minor?
is there a way/formula to remember this method?
and dude, simple math ........whats math gota do with this ?
I need help from you PRO guitarist pls.
(i ve understood circle of fifths,construction of chords, scales, arps and formation of modes lit bit )


Vivaldi,

OK let's drop the math and let's think theory... Now what I just described is what is known as derivitive playing. In other words your playing is derived from one of the modes of a scale. If I get your question right, what other scales can you play against the phyrgian mode? Let's talk major scales first and then perhapse you will see the picture here. If you look at the circle of fifths you will see that the "C" is the subdominant and that "D" is the dominant. "G" is the tonic chord.

Let's look at the key of "C": G A B C D E F
Let's look at the key of "G": G A B C D E F#
Let's look at the key of "D": G A B C# D E F#

Notice that each of these scales is only one note away from the others. So if you were to play G Maj you could play any of these scales and would have good results. OK, the natural minor of G is Fm and C is Am and D is Bm... Are you seeing it yet? There is no difference in the notes between the minor and the major scale.

Am: B C D E F G A
Em: B C D E F# G A
Bm: B C# D E F# G A

This what is commonly known as playing in parallel. It's mostly used in Jazz and Country but you could just as easily use it if you are playing Rock Fusion. Just remember that the further away you get on the circle of fifths, the less likely your scales will be compatable...

Hope that helps,

Manx

Edited to reflect two sharps in the key of D...

vivaldi 2005-11-23 19:18

thank u manx
although my question was out off this topic..i did learn new thing.
im not sure if that answers to my query. :)
ok let me again rephrase my query.(sry mate it might be my language prob ;) aint english)
right , i hav problem remembering all modes and its intervals
however i found out that if u wana B phrygian ....u simply play G major scale. I did check all the notes and its correct. How is this linked. It would be very easy coz major scales are easy to remember. wouldnt it?
whats the reason/theory behind this? :rolleyes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lizardly
Vivaldi,
Let's look at the key of "D": G A B C# D E F
Manx


and manx should it be G A B C# D E F#
correct me
cheers


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