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-   -   Joining the military or thinking about it? (http://metaltabs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19527)

BLS 2005-03-29 18:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holland
The part about living in a free apartment with free internet access, free food, free clothing, being paid 2,000 a month with free medical/dental, being enabled to develop your musical skills with 8-hour daily practices over a period of 6 years, with said conditions only advancing according to rank and such ... ;)



Get a job :idea:

guitar_demon 2005-03-29 18:06

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS
Get a job :idea:

the militarys not a job :rolleyes:

powersofterror 2005-03-29 18:22

And why is that? You get paid for it, you get benifits, you get references, and you get something to put on your next resume..sounds like a job to me.

BLS 2005-03-29 18:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar_demon
the militarys not a job :rolleyes:


He using the comfort of housing, clothing, food and money as an excuse to join the army... which can all be had with a decent job.

guitar_demon 2005-03-29 18:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by powersofterror
And why is that? You get paid for it, you get benifits, you get references, and you get something to put on your next resume..sounds like a job to me.

that went over your head huh
bls-said get a job
me-made a smart ass coment saying the militays not a job :rolleyes: -get it?

powersofterror 2005-03-29 18:26

For some reason I haven't figured out yet, I do.:rolleyes:

John Holland 2005-03-29 18:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS
get a job :idea:


On what rational basis of judgement, is this not a job?
:vampire: r34l BROOTAL m3talheadz don't W34R CAM0!!!!!! 1ONEONEONE :lhdevil:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS
He using the comfort of housing, clothing, food and money as an excuse to join the army... which can all be had with a decent job.


I'm not joining the Army ... the Airforce. Big difference. Disgustingly large, unquantifiable difference, and you should be reprimanded for confusing the two. For one, there is a threefold difference in base salary, among other things ...

Fulltime civillian occupation ( something like being paid 35,00$ a year for being a lifeguard, or 135,000$ a year for being a civil engineer ... just two of 150 examples ) within the Air Force Reserve ... even bigger difference. I've certainly weighed all the options with precision : The quickest and most economical way ( and no, I would'nt go to war --- infantry go to war, understand that ) for someone with a GED to leave a small town, with a more than decent job, is through this route.

Kylito 2005-03-29 18:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar_demon
ok so now that i have read this...
kylito were in the air force or navy? sometimes it seemed like one over the other (going to a fleet, that a navy thing but you mention shit about air force)

Navy. I was in charge of our ship's self-defense missile systems, one 3-D air search/track radar, and one 2-D air search/track radar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar_demon
did those weekly test happen in basic or the school you went into afterwards?

Just in schools. I had 36 weeks of advanced electronics theory and 8 weeks of system training for the missile systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar_demon
and did you say navy boot camp was hard?? it MUST have changed from when my dad went. (late 70's early 80's sometime) cause hes always talking about how it was a fucking joke (speaking of, when he went in it was the navy camp right next the marine camp, and this one guy couldnt hack navy camp so he hopped the fence, unknowingly ending in marine camp hahahaha)

It's hard for everyone in one way or another. It was hard for me to not laugh at everyone and to not punch certain people in the face because I was 22 and had already been out in the world. I imagine John will have an easy time of it if he keeps his composure. It is extremely hard for fresh out of high school kids who have led sheltered lives. We had two suicide attempts and a whole lot of drama in my company. One of my brothers was Army and they had a lot worse than anything I ever saw including a training death. My dad was Navy way back in the day and it was totally different. Back then the instructors could beat your ass up for real and one wacky punishment my dad had to endure was smoking an entire pack of unfiltered cigarettes inside a trash can over your head. These days if you're caught smoking a cigarette during basic training you'll be punished severely. Deaths for various reasons in basic training are a lot more common than you might imagine and it typically only costs the military $200,000 in insurance money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar_demon
basically, im thinking of joining the air force sometime(my dad talked me into that over the other branches) to be a translator (for norwegian )
i know some but not alot, if you go in for that they will send you to school for it right? do any of your military guys know translators or have/had contact with them how did they like their jobs? what exactly do they do. if you become a translator do they send you to that country? if they do and there are no bases (like norway) do they send you to an embassy or someting to help out? i heard they pick the language for you (??) but i figure i already know basics in norwegian and i doubt its a popular language so i have a shot at getting promised that right?

That's probably a special case. For instance, you can join as a musician if you are already professional and come in with a higher rank like E-6 right off the bat. They even have Navy rock bands that tour around as good will recruiters and do covers of popular music. Translator billets would likely be few and far between and preference will always be given to people who are already fluent. If you are serious about this start talking to the recruiters now and keep working on learning the language. I doubt there is a big demand for Norwegian in particular, but by the same token there probably aren't a lot of eligible U.S. citizens who speak Norwegian and want to join. If they need someone and no one fluent wants to join under normal terms, they will offer large enlistment bonuses long before they go to the trouble to teach someone that kind of thing. Your training would likely be purely relating to military aspects of being a translator and maybe a review course to verify you are in fact fluent and speak the dialect they are in need of. As far as where you would end up, I have no idea. I'm sure embassies and such are largely handled by DOD or civilian translators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar_demon
also before you join your job is already determined and unless you fuck up big time in basic it will stay the same right? i dont wanna go in thinking ill do one thing then get fucked over

You need to have your school guaranteed in writing on your contract. A classic trick is for your recruiter to tell you that you can get a school after boot camp and do exactly what you want to do. This is bullshit. And yes, even with the contract, they can do whatever they want with you if you screw up. Even if you don't screw up, you may not get what you were promised. I was in a "pushbutton" school which means that upon graduation from technical 'A' School I would get automatic advancement to E-4 provided my record was clean. Everyone who enlisted three weeks after I did in that school had that promise yanked from them unless it was spelled out on their contract (only two guys had it spelled out). They had to go to the fleet as E-3's and had to wait 6 months before advancement to E-4. This typically meant that they would end up doing galley duty for three months upon arrival to the ship whereas E-4's are typically exempt from that shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar_demon
i know i SHOULD go to a recruiter for this kinda shit, but i know for a fact that they will hash out some shit to get me to join and im in no mood to fuck with those bastards ( i remember them coming to high school, they hardly knew shit and just gave the most basic and brawd answers)

Recruiters have commission type benefits and other incentives which means that they will not tell you anything you don't want to hear and they will often lie to you straight out. A lot of the helpers at the recruiter's office are usually new guys who are still gung ho and they have no clue what the fuck they are talking about yet. They are typically grunts volunteering during their vacation leave in exchange for advancement to E-2 or E-3. You need to inquire specifically about the college fund in addition to the G.I. Bill because they will not bring it up. You need to have the college fund, your school, any advancement guarantees, and all bonus guarantees spelled out clearly on your contract. You need to know that even after your initial swearing in, you can still walk before you go to boot camp. After you swear in immediately prior to boot camp is when they truly own your ass. Our company commander gave us one opportunity to leave if we wanted to. Nobody raised their hand, but one kid went up to him 5 minutes later and said he wanted to go home. It was too late and this kid's life became a living hell. He was one of the later suicide attempts. These guys will try to rush you and get you to sign up and swear in before you've had time to think about it or shop around to the other services. They will try to push you into a particular job classification that they get extra bonuses for. Always walk away at first and make them wait it out a bit, but seem interested. Talk to other services and try to beef up your enlistment bonus. Demand a particular boot camp location instead of letting them pick for you. I was left alone with my enlistment contract and if I had been thinking straight, I would have written in some modifications and initialed them like "I can submit two weeks notice at any time and receive an immediate honorable discharge". It would have been worth a shot at least. Keep in mind the guys at the processing center are typically sloppy and in a rush. They are used to people following the rules and are not too sharp. Once you sign the contract, then they sign the contract. Once they sign the contract it is binding and I think they would be amused that you got away with something like that. The officer who signed off on it would probably get fried and a memo would be sent out specifying that these guys check for such modifications.

Bia 2005-03-29 18:54

My Father spent 25 years in the USMC before I was even born. Lived in Okinawa Japan for several of those years during the 60's training young men RECON for Vietnam.

Semper Fi Mother Fuckers!
Oooooorah!

Peace Daddy!
V

guitar_demon 2005-03-29 19:03

thanks for all the info man, some of it i head heard before but wasnt sure on. if i do actually decide to go to a recruiter and shit, im bringing my father along, he seems to know all the shit they try and swindle on ya (20+ years navy, i think hes seen all the typical kid cases before)

ill work more on learning norwegian then, if not to help join but for personal gain aswell(which is the only reason i want to join, to learn it)

John Holland 2005-03-29 19:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar_demon
thanks for all the info man, some of it i head heard before but wasnt sure on. if i do actually decide to go to a recruiter and shit, im bringing my father along, he seems to know all the shit they try and swindle on ya (20+ years navy, i think hes seen all the typical kid cases before)


You'd be surprised at how much information you can't find out about the military, from the military. Much of it seemingly operates on a sort of secret society format ... my recruiter demonstrated that you have to already be an Airman to find out about occupations, and typed in a password showing me all of them. Like the Freemasons :p

Kylito 2005-03-29 19:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar_demon
also what kinda shit cant you have in basic? what can you have?
and why should you go to church, they cant make you and wouldnt that be time you can just relaxe on your bunk?

You can't have anything in basic. Whatever you bring you will have to mail back home upon arrival. If you keep anything and they find it, you are fucked. If you wear glasses, you can keep those, but they will make you a new pair of "safety" glasses and you will be required to wear those during boot camp. If you have a light prescription and don't want to wear them because they look gay, they will come down on you and make you wear them all the time.

Going to church is a judgement call based on how many people in your company don't go to church. Our company got a special faggoty award flag for perfect attendance at church. If you are the one guy who prevented this flag from being earned, you will be shat on by your fellow shitbags. Religion is a very touchy subject in the boot camp conglomerate and you should really avoid saying anything negative about it for your own good. As in my case, if your company commander asks you a direct question, be honest and stick to your convictions. As far as the other punks in the company are concerned, the less you say the better. If you disagree with them on a moral issue, don't bother to let them know because it will only make you a target in most cases. Even if it's just one idiot and everyone in the company is silently on your side of the argument, just let it go. You do not need a mentally unstable teenager who sleeps and eats with you 24/7 developing a personal grudge against you. Being on this forum you have the experience to see yourself as a newbie. Sure, everyone else is a newbie too, but don't stick your neck out. Other people will do this and you can just sit back and watch the fun. I had an ongoing problem with the two fuckers in front of me and behind me when we marched in ranks because they had no musical talent or rhythm and they would march in step with whoever was in front of them instead of marching in step with the guy calling the cadence like they were supposed to. As a guitarist I could not help marching in perfect step with the cadence and these guys would constantly be out of step and kicking me and forcing me to step on their heels and such. I stuck to my guns because they were little bitches and I couldn't stand them right off the bat. They were in step with the stupid short bastard in front and to them that meant that they were in step. If you watched our company from the side it was pathetic because the guys in back would all be in step but the front was totally random and would go through beat cycles like windshield wipers because the two jackasses in front were the flagbearers who are intentionally the shortest guys in the company. They would march as fast as their little legs could move and pay absolutely no attention to the cadence. It really would have been less irritating overall if I had just given in and stayed in step with the retards instead of the cadence.

John Holland 2005-03-29 19:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylito
You can't have anything in basic. Whatever you bring you will have to mail back home upon arrival. If you keep anything and they find it, you are fucked. If you wear glasses, you can keep those, but they will make you a new pair of "safety" glasses and you will be required to wear those during boot camp. If you have a light prescription and don't want to wear them because they look gay, they will come down on you and make you wear them all the time.


I do have glasses, and for only 6 weeks I really don't care what they make me wear ...

I do know that in the Airforce, you can have on religious symbol/talisman/pendant whatever, but you must keep it under your shirt. You can bring one text respective to your chosen religion, if you entertain one. Electric shaver and such are permitted. Of course no entertainment devices.

I do take a prescription drug for ADD, Wellbutrin, and without it I have a hard time concentrating on anything. I think my recruiter ( Whom I've been talking with for several months ) said something about the Airforce allowing recruits to take medications such as those during basic training, but then again they'll say nearly anything. What say you, Kylito?

Pandemonium 2005-03-29 20:21

The military sounds like utter shit. I don't give a fuck about the benefits or money involved, I care about my happiness. FBS said it well with "I'd rather eat my foot...", haha. That was a great one.

John Holland 2005-03-29 20:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bia
[QUOTE=John Holland]I do take a prescription drug for ADD, Wellbutrin, and without it I have a hard time concentrating on anything. I think my recruiter.....QUOTE]

Try and drop that....cold turkey.
It's not natural and all humans suffer from that from time to time and have gone hundreds of thousands of years without scripts for such a thing.
I recently read a study saying it's believe among many critics that ADD medication is overprescribed in a range around 70% plus or minus.

Screw making the criminal drug companies richer.


Screw your inadequate and inane assessment of incomplete data. Due to the advent of digital entertainment and television, and large reformations in the transmission of information, mono-linear thinking patterns in many humans in the last 50 years have become ever abstract and increasingly disjointed, especially for those such as myself who are naturally bred for abstract and creative thinking as it is. Of course people 250 years ago did'nt have ADD : school children memorized entire pages of text overnight to recite them the next day. It was not totally uncommon to find people who had memorized the entire Bible, a task that would equate to superhuman potential in this day and age. As the interface for accessing large amounts of data have radically changed, so has the necessity for our brains to retain it.

Of the ten out of twenty symptoms required as exhibited, to be diagnosed with ADD, I had : Nineteen. Overprescription in many cases perhaps, but in no stretch of the imagination have I been misdiagnosed.

Do you even know what the hell Wellbutrin does? It stimulates the production of synapses during mundane and calculative activities that are of no interest to the thinking sentient performing those tasks.

And, its called a fucking CAT scan. They don't lie. Brainwaves in people who have ADD and those who don't are distinctly different, ask any neurologist.
:ban:




Keep the topic on joining the military.

Bia 2005-03-29 20:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holland
Do you even know what the hell Wellbutrin does? It stimulates the production of synapses during mundane and calculative activities that are of no interest to the thinking sentient performing those tasks.


I do all that myself.....it's called an imagination.

What are you so angry about?


It's funny....I deleted my original message about 15 seconds after submitting it...KNOWING someone would take this personaly and be overy sensitive.

SORRY....and oh....I made my Military comment at the top of this page and was responding to something said about going into the military on drugs in the second post......the one over reacted to......LMAO

John Holland 2005-03-29 20:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bia
I do all that myself.....it's called an imagination.

What are you so angry about?


You completely did not understand what I had just written. That is clear, given your response that objectively has no conceivable correlation to what I had written.

I am angry that you would suggest my condition that requires medication does'nt exist, when in fact it does. Comparing today's civilization to those thousands of years ago to villify the taking of medication, and to invalidate the condition known as Attention Deficit Disorder, is blatantly stupid. That is why I "overreacted" with childish and overemotional facts and data.

Kylito 2005-03-29 20:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holland
I do have glasses, and for only 6 weeks I really don't care what they make me wear ...

I do know that in the Airforce, you can have on religious symbol/talisman/pendant whatever, but you must keep it under your shirt. You can bring one text respective to your chosen religion, if you entertain one. Electric shaver and such are permitted. Of course no entertainment devices.

I do take a prescription drug for ADD, Wellbutrin, and without it I have a hard time concentrating on anything. I think my recruiter ( Whom I've been talking with for several months ) said something about the Airforce allowing recruits to take medications such as those during basic training, but then again they'll say nearly anything. What say you, Kylito?

You are correct on all points. I didn't think of those items because I didn't have any of them personally and intentionally walked in with nothing but clothes. I can't remember if you can bring any one book or if has to be a religious text. I did get into it with my department head on the ship over what we could read while we were standing condition III radar watch in the Persian Gulf. My guys got into trouble for reading weightlifting publications and I got into trouble for reading one of the Fletch novels. They allow naval texts and religious "bibles" only and that pissed me off big time since Fletch is my version of the bible and weightlifting seemed appropriate to me as well. As far as the drugs go, you have to bring your prescription and you have to turn it over to the company commander. He or a designated representative will issue them to you as required. My mom sent me some Magnesium pills in boot camp because she had just read an article on how it speeds muscle growth and I had told her that I was way out of shape and borderline on my pushups after sitting on my ass in college. They open and inspect all packages and I caught some serious verbal abuse for that one from a trained professional verbal abuser.

As far as the electric razor goes, not allowed in Navy unless a Navy doctor prescribes it for you. If you have facial hair issues like ingrown hairs they will issue you a "no shave" chit before they give you an electric razor. Air Force may be different.

Pandemonium 2005-03-29 20:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holland
Screw your inadequate and inane assessment of incomplete data. Due to the advent of digital entertainment and television, and large reformations in the transmission of information, mono-linear thinking patterns in many humans in the last 50 years have become ever abstract and increasingly disjointed, especially for those such as myself who are naturally bred for abstract and creative thinking as it is. Of course people 250 years ago did'nt have ADD : school children memorized entire pages of text overnight to recite them the next day. It was not totally uncommon to find people who had memorized the entire Bible, a task that would equate to superhuman potential in this day and age. As the interface for accessing large amounts of data have radically changed, so has the necessity for our brains to retain it.

Of the ten out of twenty symptoms required as exhibited, to be diagnosed with ADD, I had : Nineteen. Overprescription in many cases perhaps, but in no stretch of the imagination have I been misdiagnosed.

Do you even know what the hell Wellbutrin does? It stimulates the production of synapses during mundane and calculative activities that are of no interest to the thinking sentient performing those tasks.

And, its called a fucking CAT scan. They don't lie. Brainwaves in people who have ADD and those who don't are distinctly different, ask any neurologist.
:ban:




Keep the topic on joining the military.


That's all good and dandy if you say so, but are you aware of the reasearch being done concerning the relation between ADD medication and DNA damage? That's right, a new theory. Could be bogus, but when all of these people are (possibly) unable to produce kids- or able to produce severely deformed kids- all of these "misdiagnosed" people will be contributing to a serious decrease in the amount of members of the next generation. I cannot say that would be a bad thing, though, for the Earth's sake.

Kylito 2005-03-29 20:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandemonium
The military sounds like utter shit. I don't give a fuck about the benefits or money involved, I care about my happiness. FBS said it well with "I'd rather eat my foot...", haha. That was a great one.

:rofl: I totally felt that way myself before I was suckered into joining. It was a total money decision for me since California was in the middle of a big depression in the technology fields and my family was broke ass broke. After going through it all I see it as a long and insane bitch session which gives me the ability to land better jobs. Outside of the good friends I made, the world travel, and the two years worth of useful training I would say it pretty much sucked overall.

There are three basic reasons to join:

1. You are broke and want to see the world and party and not worry about bullshit like insurance and food and housing and such and you have a plan to gain worthwhile skills and get the fuck out.
2. You are broke and are socially retarded or an ex-con and need a faceless big brother type organization to float you through the rest of your life.
3. You are a hardcore patriot want to serve your country in any way possible (I think most people who believe they fall into category 3 are actually in category 2, but not all them).

I did have one friend who joined the Army for two years just because he wanted to get a lot of free skydiving and explosives experience for fun, but he is definitely the exception to the rule. :)


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