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-   -   Metric Modulation? (http://metaltabs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17685)

Hate Eternal 2005-01-30 19:39

Metric Modulation?
 
Can someone explain what this is? without getting too technical.

TruthDevoid 2005-01-30 19:40

Modulating Metrically. simple enough? Actually I haven't a clue.

powersofterror 2005-01-31 00:18

and neither do I. Can you explain a little further?

Amon rA 2005-01-31 06:29

i love google.

http://www.msu.edu/user/millett1/metricmod.htm

it means changing tempo subtly.

amerok 2005-01-31 13:35

That url was too much to read. Basically metric modulation is when you have different time signatures alternating each measure. Say the first measure is 3/4, then the next measure is 7/8, then back to whatever.
Bands like Dream theater do this a lot. Metric modulation makes writing actual notes much easier because you dont have to break down say 3/4 common time into something that would sound like 6/8.

johnmansley 2005-01-31 14:03

Metric modulation is what we have in Europe :p

Amon rA 2005-01-31 14:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by amerok
That url was too much to read. Basically metric modulation is when you have different time signatures alternating each measure. Say the first measure is 3/4, then the next measure is 7/8, then back to whatever.
Bands like Dream theater do this a lot. Metric modulation makes writing actual notes much easier because you dont have to break down say 3/4 common time into something that would sound like 6/8.


i admit, the url was quite confusing, but i am completely stumped by that.

would i be right in saying its using a riff that could have two time signatures
to go from one to the other or change tempo
ie:

you could play a steady note, and count in 4/4 (16th notes) and then keep playing the same speed, but count 4/4(triplet notes) instead.
thus speeding up the tempo?

Hate Eternal 2005-01-31 19:06

Metric modulation is the modulation of the original metre, either upwards to a faster tempo or downwards to a slower tempo, using a subdivision of the original pulse to decide the speed of the modulation. I think what this mean is that using the same tempo from the orginal meter just play triplets in the next meter or something?

Amon rA 2005-01-31 19:55

ok, im pretty fucking drunk right now,
so i decided to give you all an example of what i think metric modulation is.
i think amerok might know what it is, but i dont understand him.
listen to this, hear the cool riff badly played, and tap the beat to it, and see what happens...

http://members.aol.com/celadoreuk/metricmodulation.mp3

amerok 2005-02-05 01:23

alright. say you have a beat going, which never changes tempo. different measures may change time signatures. for example, say a riff is played all the way through, and it happens to be 4 measures long, like this:

| 2/4 | 1/4 | 2/4 | 1/4 |

1 2 1 1 2 1 < if you were counting it, you would say that.


that is a simple example. and in that case youd probably wanna just use 2 measures of 3/4. But if you get really complicated with it, like say youre playing the riff all the way through, which is 3 measures:

| 11/9 | 4/9 | 7/9 | < some bullshit like that would be hell. but surprizingly changing each key signature, each measure would be easier than making the key signature 22/9 right? cause then youd have to count up to 22. and imagine writing that? i cant even write it the first way.

all metric modulation is, is changing a key signature in a song. im sure there are many definitions that get all technical and sound different than my definition but thats basically it

If youre doing some techniqual riffs, definitely try using metric modulation to make it much easier to play, count, understand, simplify, and write it.

if a key signature changes during a song, i think you could say 'he modulated metrically' or 'he used metric modulation when he changed key signatures' i think thats how youd use the term anyway. this is long but hopefully it will help.

blackjacques 2005-02-25 13:17

Metric modulation basics explained
 
Hey everybody,

Metric modulation is like a key change, but in tempo!

Basically it enolves switching between a tempo and it's related triplet meter, but you play the triplets as the new quarter notes. For example, let's say you have a song at 138 Bpm. To get the new tempo, you divide the tempo by 2 and then multiply that number by 3. In this case it equals 207 Bpm. To go the opposite way, divide by 3 first and then multiply by 2.

A very easy way to get the feel for it is to play in 4/4 at a comfortable speed such as 120 Bpm, then go to the equivalent triplet meter, which is 12/8 in this case. Applying our formula, we get 180 Bpm. That would now be the new tempo in 12/8. Then, when you're ready to up the ante, play at 180 Bpm in 4/4! Now that's a modulation. For even more kicks, have your drummer play at 120, and you play in 180! It's wacky.

Blackjacques
www.ivoryknight.com

G_urr_A 2005-02-28 18:51

http://www.vai.com/LittleBlackDots/tempomental.html

Contains info on metric modulation.

ober 2006-05-08 02:15

Amerok makes no sense when he mentions time signatures such as 11/9, 4/9, 7/9, or even 22/9, because such time signatures do not exist in music. Let's break down what this means. Metric, meaning the time signatue in which the music is in, and modulation is the implied transition from one time signature to the other (in this case, results in a smooth transition). In metric modulation, there is a mathematical pivot in modulating from one meter the the other. In most cases, this can be known as a subdivision of the original tempo (in some cases a polyrhythm of the original tempo).
Metric modulation example of a time signature of 4/8 in a tempo of 120 bpm: An implied modulation of a FASTER feel would be of the tempo of 150 bpm (1/3 faster than the original tempo) using the same meter of 4/8. The number of times you play each original pattern would also increase by 1/3. Metric modulation is a change of note value...from the first is made equivalent to a note value in the second.

The following mathematical formula explains how to determine the tempo before or after a metric modulation, or, alternately, how many of the associated note values will be in each measure before or after the modulation:

New Tempo/Old Tempo = Number of pivot note values in old measures/Number of pivot note values in new measures


DreamTheater does indeed use good examples of this smooth and intelligent transition. Drummer Steve Smith thoroughly explains Implied Metric Modulation in his DVD "Drumset Technique/History of the U.S. Beat". Terry Bozzio uses this, maybe Planet X. Other sources of help go to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_modulation

amerok 2006-05-08 14:00

i was using those weird ones to make my point but how dont they exist in music? theoretically couldnt you have any numbers you want in the time signature?

wolfsd 2006-05-09 19:24

I will explain why they don't exsist simply by reminding everyone what a time signature is........the top number tells us how many beats there are in a measure...the bottom number tells us what type of note gets a count of "one". as an example, alternating bars of 11/8 & 13/8 is possible because the bottom number tells us that an eighth note counts as one beat......alternating bars of 11/9 & 13/9 are not possible because there is no ninth note.......hope this helps

steve

BadCheddar 2008-02-07 21:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsd
I will explain why they don't exsist simply by reminding everyone what a time signature is........the top number tells us how many beats there are in a measure...the bottom number tells us what type of note gets a count of "one". as an example, alternating bars of 11/8 & 13/8 is possible because the bottom number tells us that an eighth note counts as one beat......alternating bars of 11/9 & 13/9 are not possible because there is no ninth note.......hope this helps

steve

Ok yes I know I just joined but somehow I ended up here and saw you talking about metric modulation, something I am very familiar with and then I saw you talking about odd denominators in time signatures, also something I am familiar with. It IS actually possible, and the way pretty much everyone has ever looked at time signatures is that the top number is the number of beats in a bar and the bottom number is the note that gets one beat. BUT there's a much MUCH simpler way of looking at it. Take a bar of 4/4 (start off simple) and we use the whole note, being the longest possible note because it is 'whole'. Now why do they call it 'whole' if the quarter in regular 4/4 gets one beat. Well because if you've noticed the whole note gets the WHOLE number of beats of the denominator. In 4/4 a whole note gets 4 beats (you get the idea, I'll stop bolding). 8/8 a whole gets 8 beats and in cut time (2/2 in case you don't know it) a whole note gets 2 beats. So let's use a common odd time signature (Yay for oximorons) with a odd denominator like 9/7. In this case the whole note gets 7 beats, the half 3.5, a quarter 1.75 and so on. Basically like Amerok said, it would be hell to play, because though nearly no one does this (no one who you could go out and buy an album of, only experimental and progressive [really over the top progressive] musicians with no names) but it is often done with drums or any instrument keeping beat in the closest even time signature (9/7, drums get 9/8). So there you have it, 9/7 can exist! Who knew! I know 1.75 beats is awkward sounding but it's just a quarter tied to a dotted eighth but if your good with it you can get some really abstract sounds. That is all, thank-you.

P.S. I know this is long ass but hey, alot to say.
P.S. I also know this is one long ass paragraph too. I'm bad for that.

somedanceforjoy 2009-03-25 18:10

13/9 is possible, and if you disagree you are an idiot. TOOL. Thats all i have to say.

Paddy 2009-03-27 15:44

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Besides, everyone knows that metric modulation is the process by which the Imperial Forces keep the Jedi out of government jobs by outsourcing the production of light sabres to European sweat shops, thereby removing any sway they may have had with the light sabre manufacturing workforce - which, as we all know, makes up 97.7% of the galaxy's populace. It's all there in Star Wars Episode XI: The Filibusterer Who Wouldn't get the Fuck on with it.


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