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-   -   Neck (http://metaltabs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14062)

powersofterror 2004-09-10 13:33

Neck
 
I just noticed something that's really weird when I sang in front of a mirror this morning for an aural quiz. When I hit some tenor notes my adam's apple kinda caves in to my neck. Actually it's kinda right above the trachea towards the adam's apple. I'm wondering if it's because I'm not using enough chest when I sing. Like if a lot of people do it, or it's a bad thing that I should immediately take care of. Or maybe I push to hard out when I sing falsetta, but I don't sing falsetta in tenor, not till I get to a high g do I start that. Hmmm, or maybe it could be because I'm using neck muscles unconsciously when I sing...I can't decide, so someone here sing like tenor or treble with their fingers gently on their throat and tell me what you feel.

The Doctor 2004-09-10 14:07

crap im not familliar with most of the english terms like:

trachea
falsetta
treble

i know tenor, haha, i am one:D

powersofterror 2004-09-10 17:01

Sorry mate;). Another word for trachea is the "wind pipe." It's part of the lungs, connecting the lungs together (looks like an upside-down "Y") into one tube that leads through the neck to the mouth.

Falsetta is what guys do to sing ridiculously high notes. Hansi (of blind guradian) of course doesn't do it, but if a "bass" singer had to sing a high note without screaming at the top of his lungs, he would use his nasel (nose canal) to do it. We all do it though. Just whisper...oh let's say an open "e" of the guitar which is I think a E5. What you're doing there might be close to what falsetta is.

Treble...I meant soprano:o. As in the high voice in a 4-part harmony. Bass is the bottom, alto is the next up, tenor, is third, and soprano is the highest. Rarely does a guy sing soprano so it's mostly women.

The Doctor 2004-09-11 03:37

yeah, castrates can do it. its creapy.

i think its pretty normal your adams apple moves at th higher notes, your throat and the vocal chords (is that the correct word?) are being pushed together, so if you have a large adams apple it has to go somewere.

powersofterror 2004-09-11 19:39

.....

I think it's because I'm just singing too high for my own good...

BeastOfCarrion 2004-09-12 06:27

same thing happens to me when i attempt to sing high (failing miserably mid you), but then again i do it by breating in and using the nasil passage (dont ask how), breathing in and singing from the diaphram produces a SIMILILAR effect too.

The Doctor 2004-09-12 06:35

sorry, whats a diaphram?

BeastOfCarrion 2004-09-12 06:57

thats the muscle thats under your lungs, you use it to breathe, so to sing from it is like singing from your stomach

powersofterror 2004-09-12 14:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastOfCarrion
same thing happens to me when i attempt to sing high (failing miserably mid you), but then again i do it by breating in and using the nasil passage (dont ask how), breathing in and singing from the diaphram produces a SIMILILAR effect too.

...That's falsetta.

BeastOfCarrion 2004-09-12 19:42

well i haven't had all this music training you have had there powers, you cant expect me to know these thing ;)

powersofterror 2004-09-12 20:08

Now you do;) Feel free to ask anything related here, even if I don't know the answer, I am next door to hundreds that will. Jazz majors, composition majors, theory majors,...you get the idea. I think I'm also going to incorporate theory here as well. Read the "listen up" thread, I'll expand this there.

ivanlagru 2004-11-17 11:02

Hey mate...it's a matter of vocal technique indeed...you're not singing with an "open throat"...try to as you breathe position your vocal chords, larynx, and soft palate as if you were about to yawn...that's the way it should feel while singing. Apart from that, keep in mind that there are modifications made while changing registers (chest to head to falsetto) but they shouldn't be noticeable, they should flow smoothly...relaxation's the key and correct breath support (think of expanding your belly as you breath)
(and a correct warm up, oh and be sure to drink only warm water, no dairy products nor smoking nor alcohol...) keep it up man.

powersofterror 2004-11-18 10:15

.....The singer in Dream theater does it and he sounds beautiful. Trying to touch your chest with your chin does absolutly nothing but strain yourself. And I'm not yawning, I'm trying to sing without falsetto above my actual range.

L,B'XXX 2004-11-22 16:33

Hmm, I know what all that crap is,but I'm fresh outta Adam's apples. Frankie Valley is my favorite falsetto person to imitate though. He's very noticeable when he sings that and then switches to his normal singing voice. (He's in concert in Erie this week I think, too. God bless 'em.) If you haven't heard "I've Got You Under My Skin" the end of that has some great high notes. And the beginning of "Let's Hang On" does, too. Gotta love those golden oldies.

Anyway, You said something Mr. Pow' that I disagree with. When I ever sang part it was always bass, tenor, alto, soprano. I did sing tenor though because we had some female tenors and it was more comfortable for me. But even on the scores the alto parts were higher than the tenor or was that just because it was male and female voices?

powersofterror 2004-11-22 21:31

oh, my bad.....

ivanlagru 2004-11-23 07:45

neck
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by powersofterror
.....The singer in Dream theater does it and he sounds beautiful. Trying to touch your chest with your chin does absolutly nothing but strain yourself. And I'm not yawning, I'm trying to sing without falsetto above my actual range.


I think you didn't get what i meant...you are trying to sing high notes like the c one octave above middle c without falsetto...so you gotta use head voice unless you're a freak like andre matos from Angra(he uses chest up there)...
the thing is that raising your adam's apple gives you a very unpleasant timbre...in other words it'll sound like shit unless you keep a lowered larynx (adam's apple). James Labrie sings using his head voice up there (he reaches an F# above the tenor high c...i can get to a d# or even a an E6 in a good day). Oh i almost forgot you won't get any vibrato by straining and raising your larynx also.
http://www.spencerwelch.com/introduction.html
this site covers a few excercises to lower your larynx and why it should stay low.
practice...cheers

Iván.

powersofterror 2004-11-23 09:57

meh...I can sing up to f natural 2 octaves above middle c without fallsetto and as low as 1 octave below middle c to the note d. So I have a 3-4 octave range. But I want more:vampire:

ivanlagru 2004-11-26 06:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by powersofterror
meh...I can sing up to f natural 2 octaves above middle c without fallsetto and as low as 1 octave below middle c to the note d. So I have a 3-4 octave range. But I want more:vampire:


yeah...i wanto more too, you can never have enough range hehe...but i didn't quite got it right...by middle c you mean the c on the third fret of the A string or the c on the fifth fret of the g string? could u clarify that?
anyway it's quite a lot man...i can go from the 6th string first fret (assuming eadgbe of course) to the 12 fret of the first string with my head voice..and from there up to the Bb (18th fret of the first string) using falsetto...U should try doing the high notes using half voice (mesa di voce) that means lowering the volume so you can do a crescendo from piano to mezzo forte more a less.
(otherwise if u try to reach higher by pushing harder u'll screw up your cords... :behead: )do sirens also _(slide from your lowest note to your highest in one breath a few times)
:beer: cheers

powersofterror 2004-11-28 16:46

When a person says "middle c," they're talking about the c on the piano about where the maker's label is.

ivanlagru 2004-12-08 11:15

i got it...
 
Yep i see...so your range consists of 2 octaves and a tone a and a half...
You're a high tenor (tenor leggieri) if you cant get lower than that 4th string D...
you must take notice which is you lowest comfortable note (the one you can raise it's volume without forcing it) and then you can go from that note two octaves up (that's your tessitura or comfortable range...)
in your case (assuming that low D is your low comfortable note) you would have a quite high tessitura and you can get two or three more notes from that d (that would give you a high f#) more than that would be a bit forced...it can be done (my tessitura is from a low a, lower than your d, to an a below your high D...but i can get to an e-f in a good day..that would give me three octaves...from my lowest f1...)
so you can get as high as you wish up to a g# if you practice your mesa di voce man (that means as you get higher and higher you lower the volume of your head voice, compressing it and taking the resonance spot higher at the top of your head, thus you need to breath really good and not allow the wind pipe to release the air to fast...by clenching your abs a little)... hope that helped...see ya high tenor...
(oh and listen and try to mimick, though it's no good to do that most of the time, to glenn hughes in deep purple/trapeze...he get's down with it when it comes to mesa di voce...listen to "you fool no one" (studio-"burn") or any o his songs...then you will get the idea you muste never use more than 70% of your total loudness when reaching the ends of your register, both high and low...)


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