View Full Version : racist metal??
i just got marduks infernal eternal and on the inside cover theres a big picture of a german cross with a pentagram in the middle, are these guys damn nazis?
although i have some of their songs on my computer i regret spending 20 bucks on their cd because the songs start to sound the same and repetitive.
slayme_returns
2002-12-08, 23:33
I bet they are nazis, just like those god damn motherfuckers in Slayer.
Carry the iron cross.
Tons of bands use Iron/Maltese crosses for one thing or another. It doesn't mean they are racists. Where the did you get that from? I don't get this connection people make with the Iron Cross and Nazism.
Marduk are a very WWII influenced band. Tons of their stuff has to do with WWII (especially the German side) - but as far as I know they're not a Nationalist band.
Judas-Iscariot
2002-12-08, 23:42
Yep, they are probably Nazi's.
I can't think of many anti-racist black metal bands...
Absu has a Native American member...
Other than that my mind draws a blank.
There must be. There are CHRISTIAN black metal bands, for Christ's sake!
slayme_returns
2002-12-08, 23:48
Originally posted by Argos
Tons of bands use Iron/Maltese crosses for one thing or another. It doesn't mean they are racists. Where the did you get that from? I don't get this connection people make with the Iron Cross and Nazism.
Marduk are a very WWII influenced band. Tons of their stuff has to do with WWII (especially the German side) - but as far as I know they're not a Nationalist band.
You're right, using the cross doesn't brand you a nazi, but to say that you can't understand the connection between the Iron Cross and nazism is fucking ignorant.
Ignorant? Get out you history books and do some research on the Iron Cross. There would be a much looser connection if people knew what the fuck they were talking about before they associated it with Nazism.
You have to assume that people are going to associate it with Nazis before Malta. It was the Knights of the Order of St John of Jerusalem or something, right? What do you think they know more about? You're being ignorant of human nature if you think that they will associate something with an obscure bit of historical trivia before something as famous as, say, World War II. That's why you're ignorant.
far_beyond_sane
2002-12-09, 02:01
I'll return to this topic and reply seriously when there's something to reply to.
basically nothing should be directly related to nazism except the red flag with the white circle with the Naziswastika in it. pretty much all "signs" of nazism were stolen from other cultures.
CtHuLhU DaWn
2002-12-09, 16:00
Thats the most intelligent comment in this thread guys, Hail JArhead.
(i'm being serious, well done)
slayme_returns
2002-12-09, 16:04
Originally posted by Jarhead
basically nothing should be directly related to nazism except the red flag with the white circle with the Naziswastika in it. pretty much all "signs" of nazism were stolen from other cultures.
Wrong. Symbols that the nazi's adopted are now related to nazism, forever.
CtHuLhU DaWn
2002-12-09, 16:14
Yeah but they shouldnlt be.
slayme_returns
2002-12-09, 16:16
Of course they shouldn't be, but it's a reality.
CtHuLhU DaWn
2002-12-09, 16:28
Reality Bites, thats why we have METALTABS!:D
and phone sex! like anyone with a sexy voice like that would let any of us fat fucks bang her
xDarkestHourx
2002-12-09, 19:24
you were talkin about how the only symbol that should be associated with the Nazi party was the swastika inside the red and white...hell, they even stole that from someone else, honestly it escapes me now. But I remember it bein like a sign of good luck that one culture used to put on gravestones
Cheers,
x:sickface:x
no, justy the swastika itself was stolen. it was reversed and made into the gay lil piece of shit that it is
A Drowning Mind
2002-12-10, 13:06
don't forget all those rune stuff..like the SS and SA...btw the swastika was an asian sun symbol, watch "the one armed boxer vs. the flying guillotine" (best movie ever made) that guy even got a big fat swastika on his clothes...
btw i doubt marduk are nazi, they are merely dumb enough to think it's kool cause it`s evil..i met the guys backstage, they are pretty damn shy, and didn`t seem that brutal and evil like they were on stage :)
Lord Malphas
2002-12-10, 13:42
some symbols were stolen from Greek Culture I think...
MetalPoldi
2002-12-10, 14:39
The swastika is a symbol from buddhism. If it's turned the corrct way, it stands for fortune.
But Hitler turned it around. So some people could see immediately that he wasn't a good person.
Originally posted by slayme_returns
Wrong. Symbols that the nazi's adopted are now related to nazism, forever.
Nazis here in Sweden that call themselves "nationalists" use the swedish flag. Does that make our flag a nazi symbol?
There are many nazi black metal bands; for example Lord Belial and some norwegian bands.
well, how can a satanic person be a nazi? don't they view everyone as being equal cause no greater being created all of us, thus cant favor one over another?
Midnight
2002-12-10, 18:13
I think alot of bands use questionable symbols because they are related to evil to try and give an appearance of evil.. there's only so brutal and so dark your lyrics can be. you have to move to symbols and fucked up album covers.. it's the presentation part of music.. there's nothing wrong with it in general every single band in the world has done it. It's only wrong when really fucked up not so brutal bands use it to make themselves look more of a brutal band than they are..
In one way shape or form it all goes back to image.. I for one am pretty much against image but I see that there's 2 ways to go about it.. One way.. using an image to show what you are.. and 2 using image to try and BE something your NOT.. I don't know where all the nazi symbols were taken from ..but I know they were stolen.. that was already stated.. But I don't see why you couldn't be a satanist and a nazi at the same time.. satanist is just believing in the devil and not god.. and being a nazi is beliving in a one race nation.. <shrugs> i could be WAY off on my thinking though.. I have to admit i'm not the most informed person on either satanism or nazism.. :(
Originally posted by Midnight
satanist is just believing in the devil and not god..
not true. I am not a satanist, but i have read a fare share of information about satanism. THey do not worship satan. They use him as a symbol of rebellion. They dont even believe that there is a satan. (basing this on the behalf of the satanic church / anton levay).
Nazis everywhere call themselves "nationalists," Swede. Learn your German.
Midnight
2002-12-10, 19:42
So basically anyone that doesn't believe in god is a satanist? I don't believe in anything.. and I wouldn't think that i'm a satanist
xDarkestHourx
2002-12-10, 20:14
I'm personally Atheist and I would never use Satan as a rebellious figure against Christians or God...that's just ridiculous. And let's not confuse the fact that while not all of them do A LOT of Satanists worship Satan. What the fuck is up with all the nazi/racist bands anyway, it's such bullshit. Why can't we all just get along...oh that's right, cuz they're stupid fucks who deserve cheese graters to be shoved up their asses mutliple times.
Cheers,
x:sickface:x
No, just becaue you dont belive in god dosnet make you a santasit. I didnt say that did I? No i didnt. And if they claim to be "satanisits" (which is the name for people who are part of the satanic church) and they say they worship satan than they dont know what a real satanist is.
It isnt rediculous that they use satan for a rebellious figure. It makes sence obviously. Lucifer opposed god (actually wanted more power but they say defied him) so it was a "rebelious" action. So they use him as a symbol that they are away from other religons in a way.
far_beyond_sane
2002-12-10, 21:11
Originally posted by Jarhead
well, how can a satanic person be a nazi? don't they view everyone as being equal cause no greater being created all of us, thus cant favor one over another?
Satanist is a particular distinction. A Satanist could never be a Nazi. It's like saying a serial killer could be a Buddhist. As Mr. Darko alludes to, members of the Chuch of Satan are enscribed with a particular meaning which has nothing to do with deism. And absolutely nothing to do with blind slavish acceptance, or genocidal policy, or anything except a rather rabid version of individualism. And that, boys and girls, has NOTHING to do with being a fucking Nazi.
"I would never use Satan as a rebellious figure against Christians or God...that's just ridiculous."
I can only hope the drugs kick in soon. The rebel angel, who fell from God's grace? Say you had to pick one word that stood for rebellion in the face of Judeo-Christian morality and just flat-out made people apprehensive unless they were willing to look closely at the geneology of the word...
Technically, from a distinctly Christian point of view, and very close-minded and archaic one, you'd be a Satanist if you werent Christian. Because everything else is indirectly worshipping the Devil. By that definition, Nazis were Satanists. But by the more accepted one, i.e. people who ACTUALLY and actively worship Satan, no, they would not be.
Midnight
2002-12-10, 23:54
Alright well let me throw you guys these question because now i'm curious.. Lets pretend that it's 1941 and i'm a Nazi.. What religion would I be? Do I go to church on sundays? Do I pray? And also are the other guys that are staying in the same house as me the same religion? Did Hitler mandate a certain religion? I've always been really interested in WWII.. I've just really never met anyone that could answer the little questions that i've always had..
Long answer: Hitler didnt like Catholics, that's for damn sure. Although he did have the tacit approval of the Pope at the time. He didnt really like Protestants. He persecuted them when he had some spare time. He liked Wagner and German history, so I'm going to assume he liked some of the Scandinavean Gods. I know he had portraits of himself drawn as a Wagnerian God. But I dont really know. I think nationalism overcame religion, at that point. Absolute rulers dont want to share the power, especially not with a Church or God.
Short answer: I dont know.
eviscerator
2002-12-11, 08:06
Originally posted by slayme_returns
I bet they are nazis, just like those god damn motherfuckers in Slayer.
Explain to me why you think Slayer is a bunch of nazis ?
i think he was being sarcastic. makin fun of all those shitheads who think Slayer is a naziband
xDarkestHourx
2002-12-11, 20:05
in regards to Far Beyond Sane's comment, you're still talking in Christian religious terms. The angel that fell from God's grace? Why would I bother mentioning that just to upset them? Also didn't I use the key term "I" when stating my opinion? I don't feel the need to get into an argument with you guys cuz you're all decent guys (for the most part). It just seems pointless to me that as an Atheist who believes that there is no god, that I would believe in Satan, that's my only point.
Cheers
x:sickface:x
i will be god
2002-12-11, 21:32
Originally posted by slayme_returns
I bet they are nazis, just like those god damn motherfuckers in Slayer.
What are you, a fucking retard? Do you just jump to conclusions like this all the time?
those "god damn motherfuckers in Slayer" are not fuckin Nazis! the godamn vocalist isi'nt even fuckin white! Tom just likes to collect Nazi shit cause he is interested in WW2, that doesint mean they support nazi ways! The song "Angel of Death" is about the doctor that did those experiments on twins. Not once has slayer EVER said or declared they were Nazis.
Get your fuckin facts straight you shallow cunt!
walpurgis
2002-12-11, 21:34
Holy shit, you are an idiot...
Obviously, contrary to your signature, hooked on phonics didn't work for you, and I doubt anything else will.
Jeff collects the Nazi shit, not Tom. Get your fucking facts straight, you shallow cunt. Also, get a dictionary, maybe Oxford, so you can see the entymology behind it, and look up "sarcasm."
i think now we will have to put [sarcasm] before and after each sarcastic statement that we make, to make sure we dont affend anyone! I would put a one on that sentence also because it is a sarcastic statement.
Anway, yeah darkest hour, I would see it hard for an athiest to believe in Satan because, if there is no "good" (God) then there can not be an "evil" (Satan). There must be a balance of powers, or else technically that would make Satan a god, and then the athiest would not be an athiest anymore because he would believe in the existance of a god. Bla.
[sarcasim] i also heard that kerry king was also a leading member of the infamous KKK. [sarcasim]
slayme_returns
2002-12-12, 00:06
What the fuck is all this sarcasm talk? I made myself clear, Slayer are a bunch of god damn motherfuckin nazi pricks. Doesn't mean I don't dig the music, I still enjoy it even if they are racist.
NO THERE NOT YOU FUCKING CUNT! GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT POSER! :rolleyes:
Midnight
2002-12-12, 00:27
I've actually met the grand dragon or whatever you want to call it of the KKK in the midwest... he's a nice guy conversation wise.. he's into cars and shit.. .. if you don't bring it up he doesn't was basically the feeling I got.. mindless trivia fact # 134424
How did you get to meet Kerry King in his greatest form?
sry, but i doubt anyone from Slayer is a nazi. Kerry was in that gay little Sum41 video, and I doubt theyd play anything on MTV if it had a racist guy in it.
Originally posted by PST 88
Nazis everywhere call themselves "nationalists," Swede. Learn your German.
Yeah I know that, but that wasn´t my point. My point was that if the nazi´s use our flag, it doesn´t become a nazi symbol just because of them.
But, if these Nazis become as infamous as the originals and commit a mass-scale genocide, then it will. For example: Germany can no longer sing all of its National Anthem, because parts of it were co-opted by the Nazis. Once it becomes associated with an infamous group, it will be considered to be theirs. It's not fair, but it is life.
Ah, sorry jarhead forgot to add my [sarcasm] mark.
i know you were being sarcastic. i was just stating an opinion. im a teenager, not stupid...........:rolleyes:
MetalPoldi
2002-12-12, 18:32
Originally posted by PST 88
But, if these Nazis become as infamous as the originals and commit a mass-scale genocide, then it will. For example: Germany can no longer sing all of its National Anthem, because parts of it were co-opted by the Nazis. Once it becomes associated with an infamous group, it will be considered to be theirs. It's not fair, but it is life.
That's right.
If you are proud of Germany as a German, you are called a Nazi. Even it's 50 years ago. Just some people understand that it is ok to be proud of Germany as a German and you're not a Nazi.
Dvsthrashmetal2
2002-12-14, 09:39
who fucking cares marduk sucks my left nut
walpurgis
2002-12-14, 12:03
Originally posted by MetalPoldi
That's right.
If you are proud of Germany as a German, you are called a Nazi. Even it's 50 years ago. Just some people understand that it is ok to be proud of Germany as a German and you're not a Nazi.
I'm German, but I wasn't born there...my great grandparents were...but I'm proud of my heritage, so am I a Nazi?
MetalPoldi
2002-12-14, 16:24
Some people woul say yes. But i won't.
I'm proud to be a German, too. And i'm definately not a Nazi. I don't understand why i should pay for the mistakes some really fucked up people did 50 years ago. I know it was a very big mistake. But it's not me, who did this mistake. I was born in a democratic country with cool people, good sportsmen and great manufactories. So i can be proud of it.
But i won't forget what these assholes did in WWII. And i'll do everything to inhibit that something like this can happen again.
mrweijia
2002-12-14, 20:32
german is a cool language
mrweijia
2002-12-15, 00:09
oh my god. can this be true?
walpurgis
2002-12-15, 01:12
Originally posted by MetalPoldi
I don't understand why i should pay for the mistakes some really fucked up people did 50 years ago.
Dude, we as Americans still hear about slavery from hundreds of years ago, so I know what you mean. Yes, when you scale them, it's much different, but the principles are the same.
slayme_returns
2002-12-15, 01:39
Originally posted by mrweijia
oh my god. can this be true?
yes, but shut the fuck up anyway.
heh, we're always hearing shit from the government bout everyones equal and all races are good, then this Trott fucker goes and does this gay thing
walpurgis
2002-12-15, 16:19
Trott?
slayme_returns
2002-12-15, 17:00
This fuckin thread has had chit chat written all over it for a long time.
walpurgis
2002-12-15, 21:17
I was thinking of another word, but I suppose you could be right ;)
slayme's right. On two counts:
1. weijia, it was true. You were right. But shut the fuck up anyway
and
2. This is going to Chit Chat, where I'm willing to guess it will be shut down for being an RTT not titled RTT.
Oh, and Trent Lott is a fuckin cunt. A kid in my class tried to defend him, on the basis that he has "no history of doing it." Yes, the kid has no idea what he's talking about. He just likes defending people everyone rips on. Whatever, thread moved.
walpurgis
2002-12-16, 21:06
I hate this thread. Drunk Wally says NO>
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