How do i make my playing NOT suck?

[reginaldmiranda]

Hi there! I've been playing the guitar for a few years now and i'm starting to get the feeling that i really suck at it.

I know that some of this is because:
1 - I dont play in a band. I listen to and like to play metal and none of my friends are into it anyway!
2 - I've been playing for so long but i just cant seem to build up speed or skill. I've tried so many approaches and so many websites - but i cant seem to get it right!
3 - I cant understand theory - is there a good website i can learn from?
4 - I dont have access to a teacher - so i've been learning stuff from the net or watching videos.

I know this is really lame - but if anyone out there as some advice, please let me know. If you plan to swear at me and call me a fucking retard -then save it. But if you have some valuable advice or tips on practicing - i'm listening.

Thank you.

[Dyvim Tvar]

To pick up speed and accuracy there's a few different factors;
- Type of pick you use
- Position of your hand
- Gauge of strings etc...

Grab yourself Powertab if you don't already have it, get some chromatic scale excersises for it and work on them, starting slow first, and slowly build up speed over weeks. Also don't try to play songs full speed as you learn them, learn the song slowly, play it over and over slowly until you can play it perfect at one speed, then go up a notch.

I've been doing this for months now and I'm improving way more than years ago when I just threw myself in, I got to the point were I felt I wasn't gettting anywhere but now I'm starting to get much better excersising in said way.

I've gone through loads of brands and thicknesses of pick, changing around the position of my hand while playing, different thicknesses of strings etc... to find the optimum for my playing. In fact I now shape the picks I buy myself to a shape I like!

[JOAMdude]

you definietely need thick picks so they don't bend, i like jazz picks, seeing as they are smaller and there is more leverage over the strings. also fuck with the tensions in your bridge so that it isn't too slinky or too tight. THAT MATTERS ALOT

[basstendencies]

practice. ;)

[basstendencies]

oh and www.activeguitar.com has loads of scale/chord building exercises, as well as a huge archive of lessons. also if youre playing is sloppy, try practicing the piece at half speed for awhile, that ought to tighten it up. :beer:

[ThornsOfHeaven200]

You dont need to be in a band for your skill to increase. And you dont NEED to know theory to be a good guitar player. Just look at Chuck from Death and Dime, they never bothered learning theory and I'd say they are great guitarists. Also, you dont NEED a teacher either. I never took lessons or had a teacher and I am decent at guitar. I learned from the net, books and this site, which helped alot. The only way to get better is to practice all the time. Do speed drills, string skipping, (barre) chords, learn a couple of scales, do chromatic exercises and anything that will increase finger strength and accuracy.

[reginaldmiranda]

Hey! Thanks alot for the advice guys. I have GP5 and i guess i'll download some exercises from that.

I use SnarlingDog picks and GHS Boomer strings (please dont say they're shit - cost me a freakin fortune to get them here!) I've seen a few videos and i've tried various styles of holding the Pick - but i feel most comfortable with the normal position.

Of couse - i also try to emulate the styles of the bands i listen to - so i try to pick up styles from my favourite guitarists.

And yeah - i guess you're right- Tvar - i need to start off slow. Thank you muchly for your advice.

This is a great place and its good to know that i'm still "normal"!
Cheers!

[wizard of the chords]

I don't know that much theory but my playing got much better after I learned some basic stuff like scales and so.
I think the best thing is to buy a good book with some basic scales (pentatonic, blues scale) and some basic excercises in it. The internet is cheaper yes but also very confusing. For example you see a lot of sites talking about pinch harmonics like if its a beginners technique or something :rolleyes: . And stuff that is better for beginners like strumming patterns (up,down, up,up, down,...) is often just ignored, because its not "flashy" enough.

[Midwinter-Gates]

You dont need to be in a band for your skill to increase. And you dont NEED to know theory to be a good guitar player. Just look at Chuck from Death and Dime, they never bothered learning theory and I'd say they are great guitarists.

This answer is pretty confusing I'd say.

Chuck and Dime perhaps didnt know theory as well as say, Allan Holdsworth does. But I'll bet they knew theory to the point where they could harmonize with ease, write a good sounding tune and improvise a good solo.

Otherwise I agree with that you dont have to be in a band to get better. Being in a band could speed up your playing if you play with better musicians that you can learn a lot from. But it could also have the opposite effect as you may get tired of playing after rehearsals and so on. At least I am in that situation.

But speed and such will come eventually, just keep playing. Learn some of your favourite songs no matter how hard they are.

[MetalThrashingMad]

But I'll bet they knew theory to the point where they could harmonize with ease, write a good sounding tune and improvise a good solo.
Of course they did. If you want to write without using any theory, it's gonna suck :homer:

[ThornsOfHeaven200]

Yeah, I should have rephrased my sentence a bit. I meant that they probably knew scales (liek most guitarists do) since it help to improvise leads, but not anything too, too advanced.

I was wondering since I'm having some trouble making my own songs , what would you guys consider necessary to know theory-wise in order to write a decent coherent song? I know scales and harmonizing are important for solos, anything else that is a must know for riffing and soloing? Thanks in advance guys.

[Silent Night 6 6]

Nothing, knowing any more theory isn't gonna allow you to write better. Writing and theory knowledge are 2 completely separate things.

[HAMMERSMASHEDFACE]

well dude what kind of music do you play

[metal=life]

look at Chuck from Death and Dime, they never bothered learning theory

I beg to differ



As far as learning right hand techniques go, you have to dedicate some serious time in whatever particular technique it is you want to learn. Speed picking is fucking easy...get a thick pick like a Jazz III and practice picking fast with not a lot of hand movement...never thrash out with your forearm. Try picking fast with your thumb/index finger (holding the pick) and a little bit of wrist. this will enable you to play faster in the long run and you'll have more stamina and less chance of injury.

Right hand can be more complicated in that you have to learn fingering positions such as playing one chord then being able to transfer to another...it all comes with practice and repitition.

Basically if you don't dedicate time into your playing you don't deserve to speed pick or sweep pick etc...Learn all different genres of music (outside of metal) and diagnose every tune.

[YJM04]

you dont need books to write good stuff. what you need is some jamie aebersold jam alongs. they come with a book n cd and they teach you alot. all i have to say is do what feels best, and speed isnt everything. its all about the soul and thought u put into your playing. i suggest you learn theory, world rythms, and exotic scales. :)

[ThornsOfHeaven200]

Nothing, knowing any more theory isn't gonna allow you to write better. Writing and theory knowledge are 2 completely separate things.

Oh...but i thought that theory helps one to write better material musically? Also,my knowledge of theory is limited to a handful of scales and thats about it. Anyway, what kind of things can i do to enable me to better my riff-writing skills? Or is it just a matter of experimenting and using my imagination?

well dude what kind of music do you play

Mostly metal (CC, Morbid Angel, Death, Pantera, Slayer, Krisiun, Cephalic Carnage, Vile, Suffo, Exodus) and classic rock, but for this I want to know how i can make better death and thrash metal riffs and rhythm parts. So if you or anybody can help me, that would be cool. Thanks.

[metal=life]

Experience.




Theres no magic potion or magic statement that is going to make you good over night. the best thing you can do is to stop using this forum and use that time to play guitar.

[ThornsOfHeaven200]

I beg to differ



As far as learning right hand techniques go, you have to dedicate some serious time in whatever particular technique it is you want to learn. Speed picking is fucking easy...get a thick pick like a Jazz III and practice picking fast with not a lot of hand movement...never thrash out with your forearm. Try picking fast with your thumb/index finger (holding the pick) and a little bit of wrist. this will enable you to play faster in the long run and you'll have more stamina and less chance of injury.

Right hand can be more complicated in that you have to learn fingering positions such as playing one chord then being able to transfer to another...it all comes with practice and repitition.

Basically if you don't dedicate time into your playing you don't deserve to speed pick or sweep pick etc...Learn all different genres of music (outside of metal) and diagnose every tune.

Well, like i said in a previous post, I'm pretty sure they DID know some theory related stuff, such as scales and harmonizing, but their knowledge of theory wasnt very advanced. Im not really sure about Dime, but I know i read interviews with Chuck about how he said he didnt bother learning theory because it bored him.

I dont think the second part of your post was directed to me since i didnt really ask about that, but i did find one part interesting. I normally do everything else you said in your post, except the part where you say to use your thumb/index finger and some wrist action to play even quicker. Something else new to learn...thanks dude.

[ThornsOfHeaven200]

Experience.




Theres no magic potion or magic statement that is going to make you good over night. the best thing you can do is to stop using this forum and use that time to play guitar.

Will do. :beer:

[HAMMERSMASHEDFACE]

add new things to your playing man like for me i learned string skipping and added alot more bending and harmonics and a harmonica bend mix
dont be affraid to repeat the same riff at a different tempo :vampire:

[Mortal_Lament]

Nothing, knowing any more theory isn't gonna allow you to write better. Writing and theory knowledge are 2 completely separate things.

I completly agree t....wait, what?
Theory is what seperates kerry king solos from marty friedman solo's. It is really important, maybe not being able to read music, but theory means scales and studies. I'd kinda like to hear your guitar playing...

How long have you been playing guitar regina? if by a few years you mean 2, well, you obviously arent going to be too great. Practicing is the best route, GP5 is cool and all, but it wont develop your ear for music... or someone that you know who plays guitar to show you positioning of your hand/arm could help as well.
BIggest tip for practicing i know is: Dont bite off more than you can chew.
Playing like, hanger 18 (megadeth), as your first song will make you incredibly frustrated. Stick with what you know will be easy, i'm sure you can find threads on easy to learn songs somewhere here.

[problematic]

You dont need to be in a band for your skill to increase. And you dont NEED to know theory to be a good guitar player. Just look at Chuck from Death and Dime, they never bothered learning theory and I'd say they are great guitarists.
You're an idiot. They knew their shit. You don't fucking know shit. Chuck started out as a classical guitarist and later played classical guitar aswell. You don't fucking know that they didn't know theory. You can't write godly solos like Chuck did in every song and not know what you're doing. Kill yourself.
I learned from the netIt shows.

[Mortal_Lament]

good call problematic..good call

[Party Time 2000]

I've found that having a raised bridge helped me out immensely for speed playing on the right hand. (Kahler)

Now I find a fixed bridge just as fast now. It just took me a lot longer for my hand to adjust to the fixed bridge (strat)

[PUngency]

I skimmed through and read a bunch about theory.
I was thinking, I never learned theory, but it just kind of came to me. Its not a bad thing to learn theory. It helps a lot, but before I learned anything about majors, minors, or diminished, I learned to connect what I was playing to what I was hearing.

So pick out a song and figure it out yourself. Try an easy one at first, Sabbath, Metallica, System of a Down... something. Then if you keep doing that, you'll find it easier and easier to pick out riffs because you'll know what chords and melodies loook like on the fretboard.

Keep doing that and it'll make it that much more easier to take the riffs you hear in your head and play them on your guitar.

As far as technique goes, there is no magic formula. (that I know of anyway) Just practice. Think of steve vai, I'm sure that dude learned the same way as any of us. It is just that he has spent so many years polishing up his skills. Like a rock. Polish it till its nice and shiny. heh. If that makes sence.

[ThornsOfHeaven200]

You're an idiot. They knew their shit. You don't fucking know shit. Chuck started out as a classical guitarist and later played classical guitar aswell. You don't fucking know that they didn't know theory. You can't write godly solos like Chuck did in every song and not know what you're doing. Kill yourself.
It shows.


Dude, I knew that he played classical guitar and took lessons, but that lasted less than a year. So he probably still uses that info that he learned back then. But his knowledge of theory would be limited and not extremely advanced, assuming he chose not to learn any more theory. Which brings me to this: http://www.emptywords.org/GuitarSchool09-1993.htm

Here he said that "I know enough about what I'm playing to memorize the scales and things, but I have no idea how you would label them. I do everything by ear. I know that sounds unprofessional, but it's how I've always done things. As long as I can play it, memorize it and apply it, I don't need to know what you call it." So I do admit that he knows theory, but my point was that his knowledge of it is not very extensive, even though he wrote some killer material.

Also, here (http://www.emptywords.org/Pit06-99.htm) Chuck says that he didnt learn theory and that makes him a better guitar player. By that i assume that he means the more advanced stuff, since scales and things like that still fall under theory.

What does me learning to play guitar on the net have to do with this conversation? And there's no need to be hostile, man. A simple "I think you're wrong" would have sufficed.

Well, at least I agree with you that Chuck's the man and he wrote amazing music. Let the metal flow!

[Silent Night 6 6]

Some of you are missing the point of my comment. I said songwriting.....not solo structuring or knowledge of scales, arpeggios, modes, etc. I'm talking about plain old basic songwriting. Dave Mustaine IMO is one of the greatest song-writers ever. However up until the TSHF album, he didn't know shit about theory, reading music, etc. He knew one position of the pentatonic scale.....and that's about it. Of course knowing basic theory is essential, but don't go thinking that being as polished up on theory as Steve Vai is, you'll be a great songwriter. And as for my playing Mortal Lament....you first. 8===D

[Mortal_Lament]

Oh i can see how that makes sence, he must have only known the basic penatonic scale when he wrote the songs off rust in peace , countdown to Extinction, and cryptic writings with friedman, that makes perfect sence. Wait, it is still bullshit, i always get those two confused.
It is necissary to have decent theory to write decent songs, even slayer! they know how to play the wrong notes in succsession, hence, they know augmented and diminished scales.
And FYI, Dave mustain cannot write songs unless he has a decent guitarist with him, thats why The world needs a Hero sucked.
And what you said was Nothing, knowing any more theory isn't gonna allow you to write better. Writing and theory knowledge are 2 completely separate things. Which, is still wrong, songwriting or solo structures, music theory will help you write better. And! in case you didnt know, a solo is in a song.

[Silent Night 6 6]

And that's why practically every song and riff was written by him? You still seem to be oblivious to the fact that I said that "THEORY IS OBVIOUSLY ESSENTIAL BUT KNOWING MORE OF IT ISN'T GONNA NECESSARILY MAKE YOU A BETTER SONG WRITER"..... :rolleyes: If you still disagree with that, fine, but please account for all the guitarists you see who have extensively studied theory for many years and still can't write a decent song.

[reginaldmiranda]

Interesting concepts and opinions here. I think that really - all of you are right. But here's the twisted part -to quote some guy a few pages back - "The internet is great - but it can also be confusing."

I do appreciate the help all of you have given - but here are my learnings from this discussion and i hope that the list will grow:

To NOT suck at playing:
1 - I must practice
2 - I must learn to play by ear
3 - I must learn the basics of music
4 - I must learn Chord structures and voicings
5 - I must spend time. Speed = Distance/Time - So if i want to learn fast and shorten the distance, i must put in more time as well.

Fair points everyone. Comments and posts much appreciated and keep 'em coming. I'll be checking back for your advice.

I've started playing My last serenade by KSE since this post started and i have been able to make good progress. So again - thank you for your kind words.

Now - i must make a few more ears bleed.

[Mortal_Lament]

If you still disagree with that, fine, but please account for all the guitarists you see who have extensively studied theory for many years and still can't write a decent song.

All the guitarists that you know who have studied for years and still cant write a song apparently :rolleyes:
After you name those guys off, name off the ones who never studied any theory and write decent songs.

[wizard of the chords]

Interesting concepts and opinions here. I think that really - all of you are right. But here's the twisted part -to quote some guy a few pages back - "The internet is great - but it can also be confusing."

I do appreciate the help all of you have given - but here are my learnings from this discussion and i hope that the list will grow:

To NOT suck at playing:
1 - I must practice
2 - I must learn to play by ear
3 - I must learn the basics of music
4 - I must learn Chord structures and voicings
5 - I must spend time. Speed = Distance/Time - So if i want to learn fast and shorten the distance, i must put in more time as well.

Fair points everyone. Comments and posts much appreciated and keep 'em coming. I'll be checking back for your advice.

I've started playing My last serenade by KSE since this post started and i have been able to make good progress. So again - thank you for your kind words.

Now - i must make a few more ears bleed.

well I actually said "internet is cheaper :) but also very confusing"

But anyway you started an interesting discussion and I think you're on the right track. Just build it up step by step. Right now I am working a bit on tapping. Daily I practise it for like 10 minutes, first I tried to make sound decent and then I speeded it a bit up. It's just practise really... ;)

[PUngency]

Doodle on the piano. That's the only instrument you can SEE all the notes.

[metal=life]

You can see em on guitar too...

doodle on the fretboard, just make sure its maple and not ebony.



For your scale knowledge, draw out a fretboard and write all the notes on it. Then you got a visual reference. You can even highlight notes in a particular scale and have that birds eye view of what you're playing

[Silent Night 6 6]

All the guitarists that you know who have studied for years and still cant write a song apparently :rolleyes:
First of all, sorry but I can't understand what you're trying to say. Second, you still don't seem to understand that I never stated that theory was irrelevant, just that it's never a guaranteed tool for becoming a great songwriter. Third...I don't really give a shit anymore. End of this discussion.

[TangledMortalCoil]

I skimmed through and read a bunch about theory.
I was thinking, I never learned theory, but it just kind of came to me. Its not a bad thing to learn theory. It helps a lot, but before I learned anything about majors, minors, or diminished, I learned to connect what I was playing to what I was hearing. that's because theory is an afterthought, it's an observation. nobody "invented" theory, it's just a way of documenting the various phenomena of creating music... like, why did that scale sound good over those chords? etc. long before anyone started observing and writing down theory, people were making tunes just fine using their own two ears. at some point, some anal-retentive academics had to come along and say let's capture the formulas behind their talent so others can learn how it's done.

[Divest]

at some point, some anal-retentive academics had to come along and say let's capture the formulas behind their talent so others can learn how it's done.

Yes. They didn't develop theory because they wanted to be on the same page and speak the same language of others, they "captured" others talent to produce it to the masses so we could have a shot at fame too.

Give me a break.

That's like saying people told stories by mouth just fine some time ago, but at some point some anal-retentive academics came along and said "let's capture the formulas (the alphabet) behind their talent so other can learn how it's done!"

It's not what you learn or how much you learn that counts, it's what you do with it.

[belphegor79]

First of all, sorry but I can't understand what you're trying to say. Second, you still don't seem to understand that I never stated that theory was irrelevant, just that it's never a guaranteed tool for becoming a great songwriter. Third...I don't really give a shit anymore. End of this discussion.
I think he missed the point of what you were saying. I think though that what he's saying is that people who are trained, fair better in writing songs. That's just a guess.

[Zombietime]

I skimmed through and read a bunch about theory.
I was thinking, I never learned theory, but it just kind of came to me. Its not a bad thing to learn theory. It helps a lot, but before I learned anything about majors, minors, or diminished, I learned to connect what I was playing to what I was hearing.

So pick out a song and figure it out yourself. Try an easy one at first, Sabbath, Metallica, System of a Down... something. Then if you keep doing that, you'll find it easier and easier to pick out riffs because you'll know what chords and melodies loook like on the fretboard.

Keep doing that and it'll make it that much more easier to take the riffs you hear in your head and play them on your guitar.

As far as technique goes, there is no magic formula. (that I know of anyway) Just practice. Think of steve vai, I'm sure that dude learned the same way as any of us. It is just that he has spent so many years polishing up his skills. Like a rock. Polish it till its nice and shiny. heh. If that makes sence.

Vai did say in an interview that if he had Nintendo growing up instead of a guitar, he'd be a really good Nintendo player. Dude probably spent 8-10 hours a day practicing.

[Infinity]

learning other peeps songs is good aswell as writing stuff that challenges your playing.

[Paedophage]

doodle on the fretboard, just make sure its maple and not ebony.
Whats wrong with ebony? :confused:

[Me himself]

Whats wrong with ebony? :confused:

I think he meant that it's easier to see the notes against a lighter colored fretboard? Plus, I personally like the look of maple better.

But anyway, when I first started playing, I would just jam around and some days would feel more productive than others... so I eventually felt like it wasn't enough to just jam if I really wanted my playing to excel. So I began playing for longer periods of time per day. I would also (and still do) teach myself various riffs and whole songs of bands by ear, so I get a double whammy of ear development and physical playing ability. Over time, I kind of got into the habit of playing the same four or five songs every day, plus some tremolo endurance exercise. At one point I was obsessed with chromatic scales but soon got bored of them and realized how much of a waste of time they can sometimes be. To this day, I still have that general routine and it has conditioned me well, I like to think... plus it's been good for teaching self-discipline.

[belphegor79]

That's not bad advice at all. I really need to get better at the ear aspect of playing. I can't tab for shit as we speak.

[Me himself]

Yeah, the ear is so important. There's this guy on youtube (http://youtube.com/watch?v=O4ofe_Pavpg, just an example) who has posted videos of himself rippin out various Death solos and he claimed to me that he deciphered them al by ear and has never set eyes on a Death solo tab. If he ain't bullshittin, then that's crazy if ear development can get to such a point where you can lay out ultra fast shred just by listening closely.

[Jon Bon]

Back to the orignal post. Like a few people said, my advice to learn would be to just find some of the songs you like, find the tabs, and just really work hard on getting them right to the point where you can play along to the original. Find what's comfortable for you playing wise and just play and play and play. That's how I personally learned. At first I didn't practice much and I kept getting discouraged, but then I really committed and it came to me. No offense to anyone, but I don't think learning Theory while he is having trouble learning in the first place will help this guy in this case. Im not saying Theory isn't improtant, but I'm sure alot of musicians, including myslef don't study theory or know what scale I'm playing. Over time though, you just start "knowing" what sounds good together. So I guess that's kinda knowing theory without technically knowing, but I don't think you have to study it to be a good player or writer. Once again, just my opinion, and please don't barrage me with "You are a newbie since you only have a few post" I have been playing guitar for 7 years and used to be on the board quite often when I was younger.

[corpseifierdude2]

without knowing what u know and dont know on the guitar, i would say learning scales and chords is good for improving ur general guitarskills

playing scales up and down is what really helped me get my technique right

[\m/Eat At Joe's\m/]

getting a good teacher can really help. i had two. first guy was into metallica, ac dc, guuns and roses tc. which was good for me then. after that i taught myself for a while, got knowhere,and then got a teacher who was a brilliant jazz/fusion guy, got me soloing modally over chords, comping, getting me to putsome space in my solos (not smothering everything with 1000 notes, lettiong phrases breathe), developing simple ideas etc. it was brilliant. now im back teaching myself again. i didnt listen or do even half of what i was meant to, but its been invaluable to me all the same. Jazz guys are 1337.